Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Well hang on there Columbo, how many of those incompletions were drops? how many were overthrows? how many were underthrows? I should think that those things contribute to who's a better receiver. If I wanted to make a concrete case for Lynch, I'd simply say that he caught more balls, had more yards, and scored more touchdowns, but there's other factors involved, right? Look, Jackson is good, and I'm glad the Bills have him, but a better player than Lynch, he's not. I find it interesting you mention drops in your argument, because Lynch had a lot of drops...in fact, he had critical easy short pass drops that killed drives... Truth is, there are things Lynch does better than Jackson like the way he can make something out of nothing with his power and shifty legs. But, there are things, and some critical, that Jackson does better than Lynch...one of those is recieving and another is his ability to hit the hole faster with more authority. So, until Lynch improves on that, I don't think you can argue he is much better than Jackson and he definitely isnt a top 5 back yet...top 10 yes, but not top 5. If Jackson started for our team he would be a top 10 back too, so to me, there isnt much of a drop off from Lynch to Jackson at this point as both run hard. That being said, Lynch showed noticeable improvement over the last part of the year in hitting the hole...if he continues to improve in that area he will have an argument of being a top 5 back.
thebandit27 Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 I find it interesting you mention drops in your argument, because Lynch had a lot of drops...in fact, he had critical easy short pass drops that killed drives... Truth is, there are things Lynch does better than Jackson like the way he can make something out of nothing with his power and shifty legs. But, there are things, and some critical, that Jackson does better than Lynch...one of those is recieving and another is his ability to hit the hole faster with more authority. So, until Lynch improves on that, I don't think you can argue he is much better than Jackson and he definitely isnt a top 5 back yet...top 10 yes, but not top 5. If Jackson started for our team he would be a top 10 back too, so to me, there isnt much of a drop off from Lynch to Jackson at this point as both run hard. That being said, Lynch showed noticeable improvement over the last part of the year in hitting the hole...if he continues to improve in that area he will have an argument of being a top 5 back. Yeah I think the top 5 talk is a little ridiculous myself.
loyal2dagame Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 one other thing about the receiving skills of the bills backs, lynch seemed to make the catch and head for the sideline and go out of bounds rather than being tackled. that may have been by design by dick, but i can not remember jackson doing that on 4 of 5 catches or something similar. jackson would catch and turn upfield for extra yardage. lynch is for sure a harder runner, but as for the nfl, jackson imho has a better overall skillset from what I have seen
Magox Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 It's nice to have the luxary of both of these backs
Guest dog14787 Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Well hang on there Columbo, how many of those incompletions were drops? how many were overthrows? how many were underthrows? I should think that those things contribute to who's a better receiver. If I wanted to make a concrete case for Lynch, I'd simply say that he caught more balls, had more yards, and scored more touchdowns, but there's other factors involved, right? Look, Jackson is good, and I'm glad the Bills have him, but a better player than Lynch, he's not. How do you suppose a determination is made then? If the same QB is throwing the ball, isn't it safe to assume his inaccuracy is approx. the same for both receivers. To me, Jackson made more out of less chances and you would think as his time on the playing field increases, he would get better, not worse. By the way, if you read the whole thread or research the point you are trying to make you would realize a mistake was made. Jackson had more receiving yards then Lynch period.
thebandit27 Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 How do you suppose a determination is made then? If the same QB is throwing the ball, isn't it safe to assume his inaccuracy is approx. the same for both receivers. To me, Jackson made more out of less chances and you would think as his time on the playing field increases, he would get better, not worse. By the way, if you read the whole thread or research the point you are trying to make you would realize a mistake was made. Jackson had more receiving yards then Lynch period. Your right, I just shoot from the hip, no thought or reason goes into my arguments. It couldn't possibly be that I looked at the wrong number or anything. My point with the receiving numbers is that you can spin a statistic to say practically anything you want (within the realm of reason). For example, I could point out that Jackson's most effective performances came against St. Louis, Denver, and New England, who rank 29th, 27th, and 15th against the run, while Lynch's best performances came against NYJ, Cleveland, and SF, who rank 7th, 28th, and 13th. I could then say that the stats clearly indicate that Lynch is the more effective running back, but that would be misleading, wouldn't it? What stands out is performance on the field, and if Jackson were better than Lynch, he'd get more playing time...period. I'm sure someone will want to chalk it up to our coaching staff being stoopid, but this staff has never had a problem benching a starter in favor of a guy that's playing better (at least not that I can remember).
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 while I think that Williams is a very good back, I can't help but wonder if Carolina's O-line is making Williams look better than he actually is. Jonathan Stewart had great numbers also. That line is awesome. But DeAngelo took a ton of runs to the house. I was amazed how good he was once he that second level.
loyal2dagame Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 What stands out is performance on the field, and if Jackson were better than Lynch, he'd get more playing time...period. I'm sure someone will want to chalk it up to our coaching staff being stoopid, but this staff has never had a problem benching a starter in favor of a guy that's playing better (at least not that I can remember). i think its our stupid coaching staff's fault as to why jackson didnt get more chances......
CFLstyle Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 This is how I would put it: 1. Peterson 2. Tomlinson 3. Turner 4. Barber 5. Jackson 6. Chris Johnson 7. Lynch I'm calling it an off year for Tomlinson, whether he bounces back is another question. As for Lynch, I would say he's somewhere around 7th, so far, but he will get higher on that list.
CFLstyle Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 oh yeah, and Jonathan Stewart will be in the top 5 before you know it.
Guest dog14787 Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Its a little inappropriate to be hashing out the Lynch and Jackson debate at a time when we are having a very promising young RB play in his 1st Pro bowl so early on in his career and I apologise. Its not like we haven't been over it all before I'm proud of Marshawn so good for him
Tcali Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 I find it interesting you mention drops in your argument, because Lynch had a lot of drops...in fact, he had critical easy short pass drops that killed drives... Truth is, there are things Lynch does better than Jackson like the way he can make something out of nothing with his power and shifty legs. But, there are things, and some critical, that Jackson does better than Lynch...one of those is recieving and another is his ability to hit the hole faster with more authority. So, until Lynch improves on that, I don't think you can argue he is much better than Jackson and he definitely isnt a top 5 back yet...top 10 yes, but not top 5. If Jackson started for our team he would be a top 10 back too, so to me, there isnt much of a drop off from Lynch to Jackson at this point as both run hard. That being said, Lynch showed noticeable improvement over the last part of the year in hitting the hole...if he continues to improve in that area he will have an argument of being a top 5 back. good post.spot on.
Turn Down For Watkins Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 1- Adrian Peterson 2- Brian Westbrook 3- Michael Turner 4- Deangelo Williams 5- Marshawn Lynch
Tonawanda Troy Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 Where do you guys put him? I have him as 2nd best. 2nd best on our team! Just kidding He has mad skills, top 10 for sure. #1 smile!
YOOOOOO Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 If he runs like he did in the 2nd half of this season...he will be a top 5 back... right now he's a 5-10....
The Dean Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 I think Lynch belongs in the discussion of the 5 best backs in the league, and is CERTAINLY among the top 10. I won't bother to rank them, as that gets to be silly. But, I quickly read through this thread and can't believe I didn't see one mention of Brandon Jacobs. If I did, I apologize to the poster. But, I'd have to put that bull into any discussion, too.
Guest dog14787 Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 I think Lynch belongs in the discussion of the 5 best backs in the league, and is CERTAINLY among the top 10. I won't bother to rank them, as that gets to be silly. But, I quickly read through this thread and can't believe I didn't see one mention of Brandon Jacobs. If I did, I apologize to the poster. But, I'd have to put that bull into any discussion, too. He is a little to big to overlook.
The Dean Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 He is a little to big to overlook. I just went back and re-read the thread and there were two mentions of Jacobs...so, my bad.
Paup 1995MVP Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 The Bills have one player in the top ten of any position, and alot of you want to trade him. Not including special teams, Jason Peters is the only player to crack the top ten. If you really wanted to be clever maybe you could make a case for Terrence. Anybody else, and you are just grasping at straws. My gosh, I hate reading posts like yours that just gush over Peters. He was not a top ten OT last season. He plays lazy in pass protection a good bit of the time. He is never bull rushed, but watch guys go around him like Joey Porter when he doesn't get out of his stance quick enough. And he takes a large amount of penalties for a supposed "top ten" lineman. And he always seems to miss a few games with "so called" injuries. The guy has been made into something by the media that he is not. I hope we trade him, because he NEVER has put the team first. Marshawn is definitely top ten RB in the NFL. He plays hard every snap. There is noone better than him inside the ten yard line at sniffing the goal line. If we get a little more solid on the interior of our line, watch out.
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