MRW Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Geezus...I cant believe someone is still arguing in defense of Gruden this long and this hard when there is a laundry list of evidence to state quite the contrary, including by people in the NFL and players who know a heck of a lot more about football than any of us on this board... Im done with it...go buy a Chucky doll, it will make you feel better because thats about all Gruden is good for...selling dolls. I can't believe that you're arguing this strongly against Gruden when the guy has had success with two different franchises. Is there some hype? Probably. He's not the greatest coach to ever be involved with the game. But the way you seem intent on minimizing anything he ever did, it almost seems personal. I mean, why is this a big deal to you? Every time there's a post on Gruden I can count on seeing 4 or 5 replies from you ripping the guy and I gotta say, you're not coming across as an objective observer of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 While it is fair to point out that Gruden won the SB with Dungy's players it should also be pointed out that they faced the Raiders, Gruden's old team. So if you want to take credit away for him leading the Bucs you must give him credit for putting together the Raiders. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back eventually, but a bit different in his personal approach. Further, so what if he won with Dungy's players...... Dungy didn't win with Dungy's players or he wouldn't have been fired !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 It might be an interesting change from the incumbent zombie... Maybe we could create a new sideline position for him to offset DJs personality. How about this: "Assistant Head Coach, Screaming" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 All I said about Dungy in Indy was in response to you saying he inherited someone elses team...I didnt make the claim he built it, I am saying that team was no where near as good when he took it over as when he got it...plain and simple...as in it doesnt compare to Gruden taking over TB. Ok, so now you are making injury excuse for Gruden...Simms was never playing very well by the way...so if you are going to make the injury excuse for him then you better afford DJ the same courtesy, and even more... Gruden tanked the season with his starters in tact...DJ started 5-1 and lost key players on a team that isnt very deep at talent, including our only pass rush, 2 corners playing very well (including our starter), LB's, Reed, our OL and of course our QB...thats more than losing a RB (which he replaced just fine in TB and the running game was MORE productive after Cadillac went down. Cadillac only had a strong first half of a rookie year and has struggled ever since). Rich Gannon was started putting it together before he came to KC and then had a lot more talent at WR in two HOF's that were still productive and an incredible running game which included a RB that was much like Brian Westbrook in Garner. Not that hard to figure out...solid QB goes to more talented team with an aggressive offense...its not the first time something like that has happened in this league... Bottom line...Gruden in Oakland had FAR less input on personell than he did in TB...so he gets less credit there and more blame in TB because he MISMANAGED his players terribly in TB. Geezus...I cant believe someone is still arguing in defense of Gruden this long and this hard when there is a laundry list of evidence to state quite the contrary, including by people in the NFL and players who know a heck of a lot more about football than any of us on this board... Im done with it...go buy a Chucky doll, it will make you feel better because thats about all Gruden is good for...selling dolls. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GannRi00.htm Please enlighten me on when Gannon "started putting it together before he got to oakland." You lose all objectivity because you are too busy marginalizing everything good gruden did and attributing everything bad about gruden's teams to him. I also find it highly amusing that Gruden worked with the same GM in Tampa that he worked with in Oakland (Bruce Allen), yet you claim the "GM" in oakland was responsible for the success, and it was Gruden responsible for Tampa's failures. Gruden isnt the best coach in the league. But, the guy has won 95 games in 11 years as a coach. Kinda funny how Gruden manages to win roughly 9 games per year despit him being so "horrible." The guy is a good coach, and a hell of a lot better than what we have on the bills. Dick Jauron barely averages over 6 wins per season. Untimately, with tampa, it comes down to gruden not preforming recently, and sometimes a coach gets a bit stale with a team after a long run. There comes a time to change faces and freshen up the organizaiton and bring in some new blood. Which is what Tampa did. But just because Gruden got fired doesn't mean he was never a good coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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