thewildrabbit Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Pro Bowl John Lynch played for him for a a lot of years in TB and had only good things to say about Gruden on the NFL network. Some Buc's players don't like him ... yet the Bills players love Jauron.The guy has 100 wins in ten years and Jauron has 57 in 8 1/4 years also he has a won a super bowl and Jauron.... who has watched the super bowl on TV. Chuckie Won Lost Ties Win % Finish Won Lost Win % Result OAK 1998 8 8 0 .500 3rd in AFC West - - - - OAK 1999 8 8 0 .500 4th in AFC West - - - - OAK 2000 12 4 0 .750 1st in AFC West 1 1 .500 Lost to Baltimore Ravens in AFC Championship Game. OAK 2001 10 6 0 .625 1st in AFC West 1 1 .500 Lost to New England Patriots in AFC Divisional Game. OAK Total 38 26 0 .594 2 2 .500 TAM 2002 12 4 0 .750 1st in NFC South 3 0 1.000 Super Bowl XXXVII Champions. TAM 2003 7 9 0 .438 3rd in NFC South - - - - TAM 2004 5 11 0 .312 4th in NFC South - - - - TAM 2005 11 5 0 .688 1st in NFC South 0 1 .000 Lost to Washington Redskins in NFC Wild-Card Game. TAM 2006 4 12 0 .250 4th in NFC South - - - - TAM 2007 9 7 0 .563 1st in NFC South 0 1 .000 Lost to New York Giants in NFC Wild-Card Game. TAM 2008 9 7 0 .563 3rd in NFC South - - - - TAM Total 57 55 0 .509 3 2 .600 Total[6] 95 81 0 .540 5 4 .556 I'd say his coaching record puts him ahead of Jauron Skelator CHI 1999 6 10 0 .375 5th in NFC Central - - - - CHI 2000 5 11 0 .313 5th in NFC Central - - - - CHI 2001 13 3 0 .813 1st in NFC Central 0 1 .000 Lost to Philadelphia Eagles in NFC Divisional Game. CHI 2002 4 12 0 .250 3rd in NFC North - - - - CHI 2003 7 9 0 .438 3rd in NFC North - - - - CHI Total 35 45 0 .438 0 1 .000 - DET 2005* 1 4 0 .200 3rd in NFC North - - - - DET Total 1 4 0 .200 - - - - BUF 2006 7 9 0 .438 3rd in AFC East - - - - BUF 2007 7 9 0 .438 2rd in AFC East - - - - BUF 2008 7 9 0 .438 4th in AFC East - - - - BUF Total 21 27 0 .438 - - - - Total 57 76 0 .429 0 1 .00 DJ has had one good season in 8 1/4 years leads me to think it was more luck then coaching talent,Jebus, Jauron has never even won a playoff game, even after a 13-3 year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 While it is fair to point out that Gruden won the SB with Dungy's players it should also be pointed out that they faced the Raiders, Gruden's old team. So if you want to take credit away for him leading the Bucs you must give him credit for putting together the Raiders. I wouldn't be surprised to see him back eventually, but a bit different in his personal approach. Yes. And we must remember that Dungy DIDN'T win the SB with Dungy's players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Tampa won the super bowl, over Oakland, in case you forgot. Since that super bowl, Oakland hasn't won more than 5 games in any season. And what they did with the picks is relevant. If they turned them into a consistent contender, it would be a fleecing. but oakland did nothing with those picks. And i guarantee you anyone here on the board would gladly trade our '09 and 2010 1st round picks for a Super Bowl title. So who got fleeced? TB did NOT get the SB because of Gruden...geezus, I just love how people like to over estimate. For anyone to say that means you are implying that TB was NOT capable of winning the SB that year with any other coach other than Gruden. FACT: TB was a big SB favorite before Gruden took over. FACT: There are a lot of coaches that could have won the SB that year coaching TB. FACT: Dungy is a SB winning coach and there is NO reason to suggest he wouldnt have been able to also win if he stayed in TB that year. Does it mean he would have...no...but he definitiely would have had a legitimate shot. FACT: TB was immensely talented, especially on defense. You either are in love with Chucky dolls or dont know much about football if you think TB won BECAUSE of Gruden and that he is responsible for bringing them a trophy. He did not build that team in Oakland, and he won with Dungys team in TB then ruined it and the franchise over the next 7 years... If I take over a company that is top of its class and the company initially does well because it was already at that point...do I deserve the credit? And then when I take that company and run it into the ground, lose the trust of my employees because I am constatntly full of crap and breaking their trust, cant hire new good employees...etc etc...do i still get the label of a great CEO because my first year there the company did well based on what was built before I got there? Answer is...HELL NO, I would be fired and out on my azz just like Gruden. And FYI: There is plenty of talk about how its going to be difficult for Gruden to get a job again in the NFL in the near future as a HC. If he was such a savior, that wouldnt be the case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 TB did NOT get the SB because of Gruden...geezus, I just love how people like to over estimate. For anyone to say that means you are implying that TB was NOT capable of winning the SB that year with any other coach other than Gruden. FACT: TB was a big SB favorite before Gruden took over. FACT: There are a lot of coaches that could have won the SB that year coaching TB. FACT: Dungy is a SB winning coach and there is NO reason to suggest he wouldnt have been able to also win if he stayed in TB that year. Does it mean he would have...no...but he definitiely would have had a legitimate shot. FACT: TB was immensely talented, especially on defense. You either are in love with Chucky dolls or dont know much about football if you think TB won BECAUSE of Gruden and that he is responsible for bringing them a trophy. He did not build that team in Oakland, and he won with Dungys team in TB then ruined it and the franchise over the next 7 years... If I take over a company that is top of its class and the company initially does well because it was already at that point...do I deserve the credit? And then when I take that company and run it into the ground, lose the trust of my employees because I am constatntly full of crap and breaking their trust, cant hire new good employees...etc etc...do i still get the label of a great CEO because my first year there the company did well based on what was built before I got there? Answer is...HELL NO, I would be fired and out on my azz just like Gruden. And FYI: There is plenty of talk about how its going to be difficult for Gruden to get a job again in the NFL in the near future as a HC. If he was such a savior, that wouldnt be the case! FACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 DJ has had one good season in 8 1/4 years leads me to think it was more luck then coaching talent,Jebus, Jauron has never even won a playoff game, even after a 13-3 year. Hmmm...I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that the Bears had HALF the talent TB and Oakland had...and the current Bills arent much better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hmmm...I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that the Bears had HALF the talent TB and Oakland had...and the current Bills arent much better... By the way, you can only coach the talent you have...DJ has never had personnel power at any HC job and has had to deal with marginal talent that others have brought in. Gruden took over an immensly talented team and eventually got the personell power and TB has done squat since. Do I love DJ, no...but Gruden is a cancer and over rated and TB fans are happy to see him gone and so are his players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 By the way, you can only coach the talent you have...DJ has never had personnel power at any HC job and has had to deal with marginal talent that others have brought in. Gruden took over an immensly talented team that Tony God Dungy could not win with and eventually got the personell power and TB has done squat since. Do I love DJ, no...but Gruden is a cancer and over rated and TB fans are happy to see him gone and so are his players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 from ESPN: After compiling a 40-28 win-loss record in four seasons with the Raiders, Gruden replaced the fired Tony Dungy as head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2002, via a high-stakes trade that included Tampa Bay's 2002 and 2003 first-round draft picks, 2002 and 2004 second-round draft picks, and $8 million in cash. The trade took place for a number of reasons, including Davis' desire for a more vertical passing attack rather than Gruden's horizontal pass attack, the fact that Gruden's contract would expire a year after the trade, and Davis' uncertainty over whether Gruden was worth as much money as his next contract was sure to pay him. Gruden signed a five-year contract with the Buccaneers worth $17.5 million. The guy gets to TB as the HC only to find he has no # 1 or # 2 draft pick for two years because of the trade that brought him there. Gruden runs a west coast style of offense he leaned under Mike Holmgren,very complicated and even more complex then other west coast coaches like Shanahan runs and he needs a very cerebral QB to run his offense.His biggest fault is in the fact that he runs an over complex offense,he won't find any QB on his level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Tampa won the super bowl, over Oakland, in case you forgot. Since that super bowl, Oakland hasn't won more than 5 games in any season. And what they did with the picks is relevant. If they turned them into a consistent contender, it would be a fleecing. but oakland did nothing with those picks. And i guarantee you anyone here on the board would gladly trade our '09 and 2010 1st round picks for a Super Bowl title. So who got fleeced? I'd trade the entire Bills 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts for a Super Bowl title. And probably more, if pressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 He did not build that team in Oakland, and he won with Dungys team in TB then ruined it and the franchise over the next 7 years... Um, he did "build" that team in Oakland. It starts with the QB, and Gruden and Gannon were perfect together. From 1998-2002, Gannon was the best QB in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hmmm...I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that the Bears had HALF the talent TB and Oakland had...and the current Bills arent much better... C'mon, Alpha talent on the field has little to do with record. Everyone knows Belicheat could lead any NFL team to the superbowl (well besides that Browns team he failed with). What about Mike Holmgren? Now there is a total bum, did you see what he did in Seattle this year? Remember when Joe Gibbs called a timeout and essentially gave us a win? That guy's a hack! Andy Reid can't win the big game and his late game calls are always questioned. He belongs in the loser HOF next to Marv Levy. Remember when every other post after 2007 was about how Jauron should be considered for coach of the year? It was Jauron's leadership that got us through the injuries, remember? He also had us in contention for a deep playoff run this year at 5 and 1. I remember and so do most of you. It's really too bad that the guy can't even tie his shoes anymore. Ahh well, the Bills just ooze pure talent and maybe they can win despite him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I'd trade the entire Bills 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012 drafts for a Super Bowl title. And probably more, if pressed. So, you are saying TB ONLY, let me repeat, ONLY won because of GRUDEN and that there was NO, let me repeat, NO other coach on the open market capable of winning with that Super Bowl CALIBER team that year which was favored to win it all BEFORE Gruden took over... Unless you are prepared to say that there is NO WAY TB wins the SB that year with any other available coach on the market, including Dungy, then trading the biggest bounty in the history of football for him was about the dumbest thing ever no matter how you spin it... And the proof was in the pudding...it cripled their franchise and were not able to replace the talent he ran out of town because of all they gave up for him. Fact remains, they could have won the SB with another coach that would NOT have required them to mortgage their future, their team was that good... FYI: Anyone making that statement would be absurd... So go ahead keep spinning this...it doesnt change the fact he is not being considered for any NFL HC coaching jobs and may have to look at the college ranks if he wants to be a HC anytime soon...Most expect it to be hard for him to get another HC job in the near future because of his track record... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 C'mon, Alpha talent on the field has little to do with record. Everyone knows Belicheat could lead any NFL team to the superbowl (well besides that Browns team he failed with). What about Mike Holmgren? Now there is a total bum, did you see what he did in Seattle this year? Remember when Joe Gibbs called a timeout and essentially gave us a win? That guy's a hack! Andy Reid can't win the big game and his late game calls are always questioned. He belongs in the loser HOF next to Marv Levy. Remember when every other post after 2007 was about how Jauron should be considered for coach of the year? It was Jauron's leadership that got us through the injuries, remember? He also had us in contention for a deep playoff run this year at 5 and 1. I remember and so do most of you. It's really too bad that the guy can't even tie his shoes anymore. Ahh well, the Bills just ooze pure talent and maybe they can win despite him. hahaha, nice post Pile If we had any of those coaches here and they struggled these guys would be running them out of town too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hmmm...I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that the Bears had HALF the talent TB and Oakland had...and the current Bills arent much better... Talent ? The guy had 5 years in Chicago to bring in talent. That 13-3 team didn't win any playoff games which still leads me to believe that Jauron was simply lucky that season and didn't gain that result because of his coaching skills.They lost that game 33-19 AT Chicago. I'd bet Bill Belichick and Jauron could swap teams and Belichick would still beat the Bills every single time they played. The Bills are lacking talent alright, in the coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Seriously, I would take Gregg Williams back before I would want Gruden. Here's your oppurtunity to retract this....this....idiotic passage. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Talent ? The guy had 5 years in Chicago to bring in talent. That 13-3 team didn't win any playoff games which still leads me to believe that Jauron was simply lucky that season and didn't gain that result because of his coaching skills.They lost that game 33-19 AT Chicago. I'd bet Bill Belichick and Jauron could swap teams and Belichick would still beat the Bills every single time they played. The Bills are lacking talent alright, in the coaching staff. 1. This is a discussion on Gruden... 2. DJ had NO personell input in Chi, so I love how you say he had 5 years to bring in talent when he wasnt THE GM...the fact that you just said that statement just shows it just wont be possible to have an intelligent conversation about this with you because you dont even understand what a HC does or doesnt do... 3. And he didnt have much talent in Chi and his team did OVER acheive that 13-3 year (good trait for a coach too) which is why he won coach of the year...much like how when we were OVER achieving this year with a 5-1 start and he was again in the running for coach of the year...much like winning 7 games in 07 was a major over achievement after all the losses to personnel we took and having all those problems at QB and why he was mentioned in coach of the year honors most of the that year and it was considered to be one of the better coaching jobs in the league in 07. But enough about DJ...say what you want about him, that doesnt change the fact that Gruden is an over rated HC and will have a tough time finding work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Talent ? The guy had 5 years in Chicago to bring in talent. That 13-3 team didn't win any playoff games which still leads me to believe that Jauron was simply lucky that season and didn't gain that result because of his coaching skills.They lost that game 33-19 AT Chicago. I'd bet Bill Belichick and Jauron could swap teams and Belichick would still beat the Bills every single time they played. The Bills are lacking talent alright, in the coaching staff. Save your money rabbit you don't seem like a very good gambler. Besides Belichick has had his chance to show his skills with a less talented team. Take a look sometime, all his pre-genius records haven't been erased yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Here's your oppurtunity to retract this....this....idiotic passage. Seriously. Hmmm, you mean the same Gregg Williams that was in so much demand that Sean Payton took money out of his own pocket to bring him to NO this next season? Hmmm...how many teams are trying to get Gruden in the NFL right now...um ZERO...not even as a coordinator So do you think its possible your estimation of Williams is a little low? Williams got a raw deal here and mark my words...he WILL be a HC in 2010 if he makes any impact on that NO defense in 2009. His time in Buffalo is looked at as a raw deal and a better coach than his time here showed...I actually think he can turn out to be a pretty good coach given the right opportunity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 1. This is a discussion on Gruden... 2. DJ had NO personell input in Chi, so I love how you say he had 5 years to bring in talent when he wasnt THE GM...the fact that you just said that statement just shows it just wont be possible to have an intelligent conversation about this with you because you dont even understand what a HC does or doesnt do... 3. And he didnt have much talent in Chi and his team did OVER acheive that 13-3 year (good trait for a coach too) which is why he won coach of the year...much like how when we were OVER achieving this year with a 5-1 start and he was again in the running for coach of the year...much like winning 7 games in 07 was a major over achievement after all the losses to personnel we took and having all those problems at QB and why he was mentioned in coach of the year honors most of the that year and it was considered to be one of the better coaching jobs in the league in 07. But enough about DJ...say what you want about him, that doesnt change the fact that Gruden is an over rated HC and will have a tough time finding work... Really? Dick had NO personnel input at all in Chicago? His work was done once the Bears' season ended? They gave him draft weekend off? Told him "thanks, but we've got this under control" when Dick expressed interest in potential free agents? Chucky will have trouble finding work? Super Bowl winning coaches - even ones who lucked into the perfect storm of talent and destiny that all they had to do was stay out of the way and not !@#$ it up - are still fairly rare and will get another shot. I really can't tell if this is Dick, Dick's wife or mother, or a spurned ex-TB player cut by Chucky posting under Alphadawg's screen name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Moses Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 It's not like all the Packers loved Lombardi. Or the Bears loved Ditka. Or the Giants love Coughlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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