C.Biscuit97 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 As crappy as the last decade has been, it hasn't been as bad as people want to make it out to be. And that is a huge problem. We have been competitive enough to win games and give some hope. However, we have never truly him rock bottom. TD came in off a 3-13 and had the #4 overall pick, which he spent on Mike Williams. Now while all Monday QBs now wanna say that he shouldn't have picked a fat RT, at the time, it looked very reasonable. Since that 3-13 season, we have picked 23, 13 and 22 (Evans and Losman), 55, 8, 12, 11, and now 11 again. If you look at the history of some of this picks, traditionally, they aren't guaranteed studs at all. For example, let's use the #8 pick. In the past 10 years, these are the #8 picks: Derrick Harvey, Jamaal Anderson, Whitner, Antre Rolle (picked at cb now a safety), DeAngelo Hall (on his 3rd team already), Jordan Gross (one of the better LTs in football), Roy Williams (safety who comes out on passing downs), David Terrell (terrible), Plaxico (great player when not packing heat, though caught 2 less tds than Hardy as rookie), and David Boston (roid head who burned out after one good year). This is a very shaky group that covers alot of different organizations swinging and missing. So while we haven't had a pick higher than #8, here's a few selection great GMs have had (please don't think I'm dismissing their obvious skills in anyway). Bill Polian has had 2 #1 overall picks (Bruce and Peyton, not bad building blocks), #4 (edge James following Manning), #5 with the Panthers (Kerry Collins along with 2 other #1s that year), #8 (Biakabutuka). Another really good GM in AJ Smith has had: #1 (Manning traded for Rivers), and 2 #5 (Jammer and LT). My major point is that no weren't not the Detroit Lions, 49ers, or Bengals. They teams constantly whiff on top 5 picks. We just stay a water level and never get to pick a sure fire stud that changes franchises. For as much credit as Polian gets, he got the opportunity to start franchises with hall of famers. We only get the opportunity to draft good to decent players. Thus, we have been rebuilding for a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 As crappy as the last decade has been, it hasn't been as bad as people want to make it out to be. And that is a huge problem. We have been competitive enough to win games and give some hope. However, we have never truly him rock bottom. TD came in off a 3-13 and had the #4 overall pick, which he spent on Mike Williams. Now while all Monday QBs now wanna say that he shouldn't have picked a fat RT, at the time, it looked very reasonable. Since that 3-13 season, we have picked 23, 13 and 22 (Evans and Losman), 55, 8, 12, 11, and now 11 again. If you look at the history of some of this picks, traditionally, they aren't guaranteed studs at all. For example, let's use the #8 pick. In the past 10 years, these are the #8 picks: Derrick Harvey, Jamaal Anderson, Whitner, Antre Rolle (picked at cb now a safety), DeAngelo Hall (on his 3rd team already), Jordan Gross (one of the better LTs in football), Roy Williams (safety who comes out on passing downs), David Terrell (terrible), Plaxico (great player when not packing heat, though caught 2 less tds than Hardy as rookie), and David Boston (roid head who burned out after one good year). This is a very shaky group that covers alot of different organizations swinging and missing. So while we haven't had a pick higher than #8, here's a few selection great GMs have had (please don't think I'm dismissing their obvious skills in anyway). Bill Polian has had 2 #1 overall picks (Bruce and Peyton, not bad building blocks), #4 (edge James following Manning), #5 with the Panthers (Kerry Collins along with 2 other #1s that year), #8 (Biakabutuka). Another really good GM in AJ Smith has had: #1 (Manning traded for Rivers), and 2 #5 (Jammer and LT). My major point is that no weren't not the Detroit Lions, 49ers, or Bengals. They teams constantly whiff on top 5 picks. We just stay a water level and never get to pick a sure fire stud that changes franchises. For as much credit as Polian gets, he got the opportunity to start franchises with hall of famers. We only get the opportunity to draft good to decent players. Thus, we have been rebuilding for a decade. How about ".....and we haven't had a HC worth a wooden buffalo nickle since Marv"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 As crappy as the last decade has been, it hasn't been as bad as people want to make it out to be. And that is a huge problem. We have been competitive enough to win games and give some hope. However, we have never truly him rock bottom. TD came in off a 3-13 and had the #4 overall pick, which he spent on Mike Williams. Now while all Monday QBs now wanna say that he shouldn't have picked a fat RT, at the time, it looked very reasonable. Since that 3-13 season, we have picked 23, 13 and 22 (Evans and Losman), 55, 8, 12, 11, and now 11 again. If you look at the history of some of this picks, traditionally, they aren't guaranteed studs at all. For example, let's use the #8 pick. In the past 10 years, these are the #8 picks: Derrick Harvey, Jamaal Anderson, Whitner, Antre Rolle (picked at cb now a safety), DeAngelo Hall (on his 3rd team already), Jordan Gross (one of the better LTs in football), Roy Williams (safety who comes out on passing downs), David Terrell (terrible), Plaxico (great player when not packing heat, though caught 2 less tds than Hardy as rookie), and David Boston (roid head who burned out after one good year). This is a very shaky group that covers alot of different organizations swinging and missing. So while we haven't had a pick higher than #8, here's a few selection great GMs have had (please don't think I'm dismissing their obvious skills in anyway). Bill Polian has had 2 #1 overall picks (Bruce and Peyton, not bad building blocks), #4 (edge James following Manning), #5 with the Panthers (Kerry Collins along with 2 other #1s that year), #8 (Biakabutuka). Another really good GM in AJ Smith has had: #1 (Manning traded for Rivers), and 2 #5 (Jammer and LT). My major point is that no weren't not the Detroit Lions, 49ers, or Bengals. They teams constantly whiff on top 5 picks. We just stay a water level and never get to pick a sure fire stud that changes franchises. For as much credit as Polian gets, he got the opportunity to start franchises with hall of famers. We only get the opportunity to draft good to decent players. Thus, we have been rebuilding for a decade. Nice post C.Biscuit. The only part I disagree with(and it's just the wording really) is the last sentence. HOFers can be found all over the draft(generally speaking). Drafting higher just theoretically increases your chances of landing one. The situation a player is drafted into I think also effects how their careers pan out. Moulds IMO was a good example of this. He was a great WR........but if he had top players around him for his career(instead of the rubbish he generally had) it's not ridiculous to think he could have put up HOFer level numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan714 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I always wish we had sucked more the year Roethlisburger was drafted, instead we got JP and set the franchise back 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Nice post C.Biscuit.The only part I disagree with(and it's just the wording really) is the last sentence. HOFers can be found all over the draft(generally speaking). Drafting higher just theoretically increases your chances of landing one. The situation a player is drafted into I think also effects how their careers pan out. Moulds IMO was a good example of this. He was a great WR........but if he had top players around him for his career(instead of the rubbish he generally had) it's not ridiculous to think he could have put up HOFer level numbers. Eric Moulds was a freak. Andre Johnson reminds me of Moulds and I think it's a great point that he could have really piled up some big numbers with a different team. In comparison Lee Evans doesn't come close to dominating like Eric did and I think that says alot about the two players. I love me some Lee Evans and he is a very good reciever but he is also very limited. IMO to trully be considered a great wideout you need to be able to get it done against any coverage. He just doesn't have that superior strength to fight through physical double coverage and break tackles. The great ones do it all. Eric Moulds was that type of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Eric Moulds was a freak. Andre Johnson reminds me of Moulds and I think it's a great point that he could have really piled up some big numbers with a different team. In comparison Lee Evans doesn't come close to dominating like Eric did and I think that says alot about the two players. I love me some Lee Evans and he is a very good reciever but he is also very limited. IMO to trully be considered a great wideout you need to be able to get it done against any coverage. He just doesn't have that superior strength to fight through physical double coverage and break tackles. The great ones do it all. Eric Moulds was that type of player. I think this is a bit of a generalization. Marvin Harrison is certainly one of the great ones(though having Manning passing to him surely helped his numbers). He is 2" taller yet 12lbs lighter......and unless I'm mistaken has not been known for being overly physical. But I generally agree. I think Evans could be awesome given the right circumstances.......but..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I always wish we had sucked more the year Roethlisburger was drafted, instead we got JP and set the franchise back 4 years. Right, and now that he's gone we should expect Jauron to lead the team to the Superbowl. The longer Jauron remains, the longer the setback for this team will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 As crappy as the last decade has been, it hasn't been as bad as people want to make it out to be. And that is a huge problem. We have been competitive enough to win games and give some hope. However, we have never truly him rock bottom. TD came in off a 3-13 and had the #4 overall pick, which he spent on Mike Williams. Now while all Monday QBs now wanna say that he shouldn't have picked a fat RT, at the time, it looked very reasonable. Since that 3-13 season, we have picked 23, 13 and 22 (Evans and Losman), 55, 8, 12, 11, and now 11 again. If you look at the history of some of this picks, traditionally, they aren't guaranteed studs at all. For example, let's use the #8 pick. In the past 10 years, these are the #8 picks: Derrick Harvey, Jamaal Anderson, Whitner, Antre Rolle (picked at cb now a safety), DeAngelo Hall (on his 3rd team already), Jordan Gross (one of the better LTs in football), Roy Williams (safety who comes out on passing downs), David Terrell (terrible), Plaxico (great player when not packing heat, though caught 2 less tds than Hardy as rookie), and David Boston (roid head who burned out after one good year). This is a very shaky group that covers alot of different organizations swinging and missing. So while we haven't had a pick higher than #8, here's a few selection great GMs have had (please don't think I'm dismissing their obvious skills in anyway). Bill Polian has had 2 #1 overall picks (Bruce and Peyton, not bad building blocks), #4 (edge James following Manning), #5 with the Panthers (Kerry Collins along with 2 other #1s that year), #8 (Biakabutuka). Another really good GM in AJ Smith has had: #1 (Manning traded for Rivers), and 2 #5 (Jammer and LT). My major point is that no weren't not the Detroit Lions, 49ers, or Bengals. They teams constantly whiff on top 5 picks. We just stay a water level and never get to pick a sure fire stud that changes franchises. For as much credit as Polian gets, he got the opportunity to start franchises with hall of famers. We only get the opportunity to draft good to decent players. Thus, we have been rebuilding for a decade. I must admit I didn't read your post, but the title is hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonawanda Troy Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 The Bills have the talent to win any Sunday, We need a coach that can get players to play over their heads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 We have made bad picks in some situations, but our players that have been selected are our building blocks for this team. Lee Evans is our #1 WR. If he ever gets a threat on the other side of him as a posession guy and a TE to go along with that, he WILL put up 1,500+ yards and 10+ TD's. He just hasn't had the help he needs yet. If we get a top notch C on this team watch Lynch's #'s go up significantly. If the guy making all of the OL calls makes the right ones and can handle the guy in front of him Marshawn will show us what "Beast Mode" really is. Whitner is a hard hitting SS that, when healthy, is one of the better SS in the league. The only knock I have on the guy is that he needs to stop worrying about killing the guy trying to catch the ball in front of him and make a play on the ball himself. If he gets to that point all will finally be glad we drafted him. McKelvin is going to be a top 5 CB in this league by year 3. Say what you want about my statement, but remember what I tell you. He has an AWESOME closing burst, great speed, better hands than he got credit for coming out of college, and is fluid in his direction changes. He will be a "shut-down" CB. They won't throw the ball much to his side. McCargo.............. JP...................... Mike Williams.................... No one really saw that coming though. We were widely praised on draft day for the pick. Overall, I'd say we've done well. Everyone would like to have Ngata instead of Whitner for the most part, but Whitner's not a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I think this is a bit of a generalization. Marvin Harrison is certainly one of the great ones(though having Manning passing to him surely helped his numbers). He is 2" taller yet 12lbs lighter......and unless I'm mistaken has not been known for being overly physical. But I generally agree. I think Evans could be awesome given the right circumstances.......but..... Lee Evans would tear it up in the right offense! I fully agree with you on that. I guess the only point I was trying to make is that a physical guy can get it done even when an offense is struggling. Those strength and speed guys can take a short catch and break tackles to make it a huge play. The great ones can snag a ball at it's highest point and win jump balls. This goes along way with average Qb's and inconsistent play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIE HARD 1967 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 You make some good points here Nice post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Eric Moulds was a freak. Andre Johnson reminds me of Moulds and I think it's a great point that he could have really piled up some big numbers with a different team. In comparison Lee Evans doesn't come close to dominating like Eric did and I think that says alot about the two players. I love me some Lee Evans and he is a very good reciever but he is also very limited. IMO to trully be considered a great wideout you need to be able to get it done against any coverage. He just doesn't have that superior strength to fight through physical double coverage and break tackles. The great ones do it all. Eric Moulds was that type of player. I think Lee Evans has had the best start of any Bills' receiver in history and has played with suspect QBing to say the least. Plently of smaller receivers dominate - Steve Smith, Torry Holt, Marvin Harrison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 The Bills have the talent to win any Sunday, We need a coach that can get players to play over their heads! It is interesting to wonder how much coaching would change things. In 2007, Jauron did about as good of a coaching job as you can possibly do given the injuries, the Everett situation, and some heartbreaking losses. However, he took a huge step back last year. The best and only real argument can make in bringing Jauron back is based on the past. We have switched coaching staffs every 2 or 3 years for the last decade. What has that gotten use??? Trent's entering his 3rd year and will be in the same system for the 2nd year. Our defense will be in the same system for the 4th year. Our draft and free agency period will tell alot if Jauron and company understand the weaknesses on this team. We need big people, big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 It is interesting to wonder how much coaching would change things. In 2007, Jauron did about as good of a coaching job as you can possibly do given the injuries, the Everett situation, and some heartbreaking losses. However, he took a huge step back last year. The best and only real argument can make in bringing Jauron back is based on the past. We have switched coaching staffs every 2 or 3 years for the last decade. What has that gotten use??? Trent's entering his 3rd year and will be in the same system for the 2nd year. Our defense will be in the same system for the 4th year. Our draft and free agency period will tell alot if Jauron and company understand the weaknesses on this team. We need big people, big time. The OC has changed but the system & language used is the same all 3 years for Trent. We have consistancy, too bad it's not GOOD consistancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 It is interesting to wonder how much coaching would change things. In 2007, Jauron did about as good of a coaching job as you can possibly do given the injuries, the Everett situation, and some heartbreaking losses. However, he took a huge step back last year. The best and only real argument can make in bringing Jauron back is based on the past. We have switched coaching staffs every 2 or 3 years for the last decade. What has that gotten use??? Trent's entering his 3rd year and will be in the same system for the 2nd year. Our defense will be in the same system for the 4th year. Our draft and free agency period will tell alot if Jauron and company understand the weaknesses on this team. We need big people, big time. That is a great point, referring to the general opinion of Jauron after 2007. It's funny how a coach can literally have a bad season based on a few bad calls. By no means am I defending his coaching, so don't get me wrong. I am torn whether or not I feel he deserved another shot with this team. The players seem to think so and that says alot. Players throw coachs under the bus without hesitation today. Some say it's because he is easy on them but that seems a little far fetched to me. These guys are pros and I'd like to think winning is what matters most to them, not practicing indoors. IMO with every year this team doesn't make the playoffs each coaching season gets harder and harder. Jauron has had much less forgiveness from a soured fanbase, than alot of coachs get. With all that being said next season is it for him unless this team gets to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I think Lee Evans has had the best start of any Bills' receiver in history and has played with suspect QBing to say the least. Plently of smaller receivers dominate - Steve Smith, Torry Holt, Marvin Harrison. I watch Steve Smith and I see a powerful player. He breaks tackles, blocks downfield, and creates for himself. He does all this with an average to poor QB. Lee Evans would be a star like Holt and Harrison in those systems. Steve Smith gets it done in any system IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berndogg Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 It is interesting to wonder how much coaching would change things. In 2007, Jauron did about as good of a coaching job as you can possibly do given the injuries, the Everett situation, and some heartbreaking losses. However, he took a huge step back last year. The best and only real argument can make in bringing Jauron back is based on the past. We have switched coaching staffs every 2 or 3 years for the last decade. What has that gotten use??? Trent's entering his 3rd year and will be in the same system for the 2nd year. Our defense will be in the same system for the 4th year. Our draft and free agency period will tell alot if Jauron and company understand the weaknesses on this team. We need big people, big time. I've gotta disagree on that one. Jauron's clock management/philosophy at the end of halves has been a consistent problem since he's been here. Inside of 2 minutes we get away from what's been working and go prevent d or kneel down O. This lost us the cowboys and broncos games for sure in 07 and maybe 1 or 2 others. I agree that he got the team to play hard every game in 07, but even with the injuries that should've been a 9 or 10 win team with good coaching. This year was just a complete coaching disaster in every sense of the word. Watching mangini and jauron duel to see who could find more ways to lose was beyond painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 biggest problem with the bills is two fold: 1. there is not any good leadership on the team 2. ralph likes dick too much. he should have never extended him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 As crappy as the last decade has been, it hasn't been as bad as people want to make it out to be. And that is a huge problem. We have been competitive enough to win games and give some hope. However, we have never truly him rock bottom. TD came in off a 3-13 and had the #4 overall pick, which he spent on Mike Williams. Now while all Monday QBs now wanna say that he shouldn't have picked a fat RT, at the time, it looked very reasonable. Since that 3-13 season, we have picked 23, 13 and 22 (Evans and Losman), 55, 8, 12, 11, and now 11 again. I'd say going ofer the decade in playoff appearances in pretty bad. Spin that any way you want, it's bad. The only difference between Buffalo and Detroit is we're not so awful in the regular season. The Bills have won 14 more games than Detroit since the 2004 season. If you look at the history of some of this picks, traditionally, they aren't guaranteed studs at all. For example, let's use the #8 pick. In the past 10 years, these are the #8 picks: Derrick Harvey, Jamaal Anderson, Whitner, Antre Rolle (picked at cb now a safety), DeAngelo Hall (on his 3rd team already), Jordan Gross (one of the better LTs in football), Roy Williams (safety who comes out on passing downs), David Terrell (terrible), Plaxico (great player when not packing heat, though caught 2 less tds than Hardy as rookie), and David Boston (roid head who burned out after one good year). This is a very shaky group that covers alot of different organizations swinging and missing. Good GM's (at least teams that have them) succeed on draft day. No, they're not perfect, but I challenge anyone to find a guy who drafts poorly and can retain his job. Some of the best GM's out there like Polian, Newsome, Jerry Reese, AJ Smith, and the Belichick/Pioli hit on far more than the average the rest of the league hits on. For as much credit as Polian gets, he got the opportunity to start franchises with hall of famers. We only get the opportunity to draft good to decent players. Thus, we have been rebuilding for a decade. Polian got the opportunity to start with HOF'ers because he drafted them. Let the record show that Polian could have taken other people first overall in 1985. And he could have taken Ryan Leaf in 1998.. If you researched where HOFers are selected, you'd know they're not all in the top 10 of the first round. Besides, it's not an absolute requirement to have HOF talent to win in the post-season. Outside of Brady, perhaps no other Patriette will be a guaranteed HOFer when their run is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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