Steely Dan Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Trent's underpaid. Even a good backup is worth a million of more and he's at least that. I would expect his agent to try and get something done this off-season. Being injury prone, Trent is taking a lot of risk on every snap at his low rate of pay. Even worse than that is the risk he is taking playing for Jauron. That alone will reduce his free agent value in a couple years. If TE is ripping up the league after 7 games next year the Bills will give him a better contract but I can't see it before then. I ran this by Nancy Pelosi. She said that Dockery provides more value. First of all he's paying a lot more in taxes. That's good. If he's spending his money then he is stimulating the economy more than Trent by a wide margin. She went on to say that she and Harry and Barack plan to raise Dockery's taxes which will further increase his value. She was also optimistic that Trent would play well next year and get a big pay increase, maybe enough to make him equal to Dockery. She really surprised me when she said that the government would consider buying the Bills if Ralph dies. She feels that the team would have the most value in Buffalo since the Bills payroll was low and could be increased which would also increase tax revenue. With elections for both NY senate seats and the Governorship in the near future, keeping the Bills in Buffalo would help to get Democrats elected and to maintsain higher taxation and spending. She did say that Ralph is a Republican and that he is no good. Off the subject of football I asked her why they would wait a year to increase taxes. She said that a larger deficit will make it easier to get tax increases passed. She felt spending first was the best measure and after all, it's not her money anyway. Don't turn this political jackass. Save it for PPP if you feel you must make your political views known. underpaid Greer and jackson of course overpaid SCHOBEL and KELSAY of course I know, Greer and Jackson aren't making any money at all next year, so far. really man who the hell cares? whats the point? You have a better idea for a conversation start your own thread. If you don't care then don't read. Douchebag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuru4 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Agreed. Why we decided to extend him is beyond me. Ant to think, the Giants took Osi Umenyiora 8 spots after we took Kelsay I did not know that, gotta love our FO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Obviously we can't tell anything about the EFA, RFA, and FA's now but of the guys under contract who do you think? This includes total contract at the time of signing and what they are worth now. My votes are: Most overpaid: Tie: Derrick Dockery, 3/2/2007: Signed a seven-year, $49 million contract. The deal contains $18.5 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus. $8.1 million of the signing bonus was paid immediately. 2009: $2.75 million, 2010: $4.5 million, 2011: $5.65 million, 2012: $6.575 million, 2013: $6.775 million, 2014: Free Agent Aaron Schobel, 8/24/2007: Signed a seven-year, $50.5 million contract. The deal contains $21 million in guarantees, including Schobel's first four base salaries. 2008: $1.5 million, 2009: $3.5 million, 2010: $6.025 million, 2011-2012: $6.5 million, 2013: $8.5 million, 2014: Free Agent I'm leaning more toward Dockery because he really hadn't done much before getting his contract and he seems just ordinary. If he makes the Pro-Bowl this year then maybe he'll start earning it. Schobel had injuries this year but that has to factor in to it a bit. If he stays healthy this year then I think Dockery will win the award outright. Most underpaid: Marcus Stroud: 4/14/2005: Signed a five-year, $31.5 million contract. The deal included a $6.5 million signing bonus and contains $12.5 million in total guarantees. 2008: $3 million, 2009: $3.5 million, 2010: $4 million, 2011: Free Agent This is assuming Stroud doesn't get a contract extension and raise this offseason and I'm pretty sure he will be given one. Josh Reed, 3/17/2006: Signed a four-year, $10 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. 2008: $1.825 million, 2009: $2.025 million, 2010: Free Agent Ralph Wilson is the most overpaid Bill and Bills fans are the most underpaid. They should have paid us to attend last year's games after the 5-1 start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 AS is not overpaid for his resume and his position. I know people love to hate him here but any DEs with AS' numbers would have a similar contract. OK Mrs Schobel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 AS is not overpaid for his resume and his position. I know people love to hate him here but any DEs with AS' numbers would have a similar contract. OK Mrs Schobel Looking through all of the DEs signed in 2007.......it is clear that AS's contract was actually cheap for his production over the years. Veteran DEs do not come cheap.....the lowest of the 11 signed was for $4.9mil/year. Schobels pro-bowl appearance & over 10 sacks/season make his $7.2mil/year seem a bit low. I would imagine that if he was a FA in 2007, rather than reworking an existing contract he would have gotten $9-10mil/year. Starting DEs signed in 2007.....listed in order of highest $$$/year. Dwight Freeney 5 years exp....3 probowls....56.5 sacks(11.3/year) 6 year contract, $72mil($12mil/year)....$30mil guaranteed Charles Grant 5 years exp....no probowls....26 sacks(5.2/year) 7 year contract, $63mil($9mil/year)....$20mil guaranteed Aaron Schobel 6 years exp....1 probowl....60.5 sacks(10.1/year) 7 year contract, $50.5mil($7.2mil/year)....$21mil guaranteed Ty Warren 4 years exp....0 probowls....13.5 sacks(3.4/year) 5 year contract, $36mil($7.2mil/year)....$18mil guaranteed Cory Redding 4 years exp....0 probowls....12 sacks(3/year) 7 year contract, $49mil($7mil/year)....$16.6mil guaranteed Patrick Kerney 8 years exp....1 probowl....58 sacks(7.3/year) 6 year contract, $39.5mil($6.6mil/year)....$19.5mil guaranteed Robert Geathers 3 years exp....0 probowls....17 sacks(5.7/year) 6 year contract, $33.75mil($5.6mil/year)....$12.5mil guaranteed Dewayne White 4 years exp....0 probowls....14 sacks(3.5/year) 5 year contract, $29mil($5.8mil/year)....$13mil guaranteed Chris Kelsay 4 years exp....0 probowls....12.5 sacks(3.1/year) 4 year contract, $23mil($5.8mil/year)....$11mil guaranteed Vonnie Holliday 9 years exp....0 probowls....49.5 sacks(5.5/year) 4 year contract, $20mil($5mil/year)....$10mil guaranteed Aaron Smith 8 years exp....1 probowl....34 sacks(4.3/year) 5 year contract, $24.5mil($4.9mil/year)....$8mil guaranteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 First off, I have far too much money to risk having a wife and if I did, I don't think Trent would do anything with her except possibly go shopping for gloves in Los Gatos. Secondly, I kept my analysis very easy to understand. It was 100% objective and involved numbers. I know people on here will give Trent top billing because........well I have no idea why but they will. There are others who like to bash players like Royal. My mathematical work kept all of the pro and con bias out of the equation. There is no denying that Trent has produced literally nothing for the Bills during his time here. He has produced for the Jets and Cleveland along with some other teams. There are very few 1st or second string QBs in the NFL as bad as Trent. He is not in the top 45 NFL QBs. These are just the facts and very few people would argue. I feel the multiply/divide method is a better way of determining a players bargain status than the addition/subtraction method. It is more sophisticated. You'll notice that it graded out both the unfairly heralded Edwards and the overly bashed Royal as equally horrible. This is proof of the system's objectivity. To those people who prefer the addition/subtraction method I respectfully disagree. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I don't understand. Under this method Dockery would indeed be most overpaid and it would be impossible for Trent to grade out poorly. I understand the desire on the part of some fan boys to make it impossible for Trent to look bad but I don't agree with it. I think you have to be more objective. Were you overpaid or underpaid while earning all of that money? Also what kind of car do you drive so i know whether to believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Were you overpaid or underpaid while earning all of that money? Also what kind of car do you drive so i know whether to believe you. Bently. And I was and continue to be paid at market rates, neither overpaid or underpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Bently. And I was and continue to be paid at market rates, neither overpaid or underpaid. Bentley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 There isn't anyone on this board who wouldn't fight for the most money on their job. Athletes aren't overpaid they are getting what they deserve because they are the NFL's biggest asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poeticlaw Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Obviously we can't tell anything about the EFA, RFA, and FA's now but of the guys under contract who do you think? This includes total contract at the time of signing and what they are worth now. My votes are: Most overpaid: Tie: Derrick Dockery, 3/2/2007: Signed a seven-year, $49 million contract. The deal contains $18.5 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus. $8.1 million of the signing bonus was paid immediately. 2009: $2.75 million, 2010: $4.5 million, 2011: $5.65 million, 2012: $6.575 million, 2013: $6.775 million, 2014: Free Agent Aaron Schobel, 8/24/2007: Signed a seven-year, $50.5 million contract. The deal contains $21 million in guarantees, including Schobel's first four base salaries. 2008: $1.5 million, 2009: $3.5 million, 2010: $6.025 million, 2011-2012: $6.5 million, 2013: $8.5 million, 2014: Free Agent I'm leaning more toward Dockery because he really hadn't done much before getting his contract and he seems just ordinary. If he makes the Pro-Bowl this year then maybe he'll start earning it. Schobel had injuries this year but that has to factor in to it a bit. If he stays healthy this year then I think Dockery will win the award outright. Most underpaid: Marcus Stroud: 4/14/2005: Signed a five-year, $31.5 million contract. The deal included a $6.5 million signing bonus and contains $12.5 million in total guarantees. 2008: $3 million, 2009: $3.5 million, 2010: $4 million, 2011: Free Agent This is assuming Stroud doesn't get a contract extension and raise this offseason and I'm pretty sure he will be given one. Josh Reed, 3/17/2006: Signed a four-year, $10 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. 2008: $1.825 million, 2009: $2.025 million, 2010: Free Agent Shoot me all you want OVERPAID: Lee Evans not worth 9 mil a year Arron schoebel not worth almost 9 mil a year Cris Kelsay Not worth almost 7 mil a year Roscoe parrish not worth almost 5 mil a year Robert royal isnt worth anything certainly not more thatn 1.5 mil a year I have no problem with the lineman being paid what they are they are lineman and thats the average pay but considering they have a thousand yard rusher they have to be doing something right. Underpaid: Freddy deserves a little raise as does Greer other than that noone else has proved to be worth more than the current contract they have and some of the players on this team should take paycuts for their play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Shoot me all you want OVERPAID: Lee Evans not worth 9 mil a year Arron schoebel not worth almost 9 mil a year Cris Kelsay Not worth almost 7 mil a year Roscoe parrish not worth almost 5 mil a year Robert royal isnt worth anything certainly not more thatn 1.5 mil a year I have no problem with the lineman being paid what they are they are lineman and thats the average pay but considering they have a thousand yard rusher they have to be doing something right. Underpaid: Freddy deserves a little raise as does Greer other than that noone else has proved to be worth more than the current contract they have and some of the players on this team should take paycuts for their play. You do realize a back only has to average 65 YPG to get 1,000 yds. That stat is a bit overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Looking through all of the DEs signed in 2007.......it is clear that AS's contract was actually cheap for his production over the years. Veteran DEs do not come cheap.....the lowest of the 11 signed was for $4.9mil/year. Schobels pro-bowl appearance & over 10 sacks/season make his $7.2mil/year seem a bit low. I would imagine that if he was a FA in 2007, rather than reworking an existing contract he would have gotten $9-10mil/year. Starting DEs signed in 2007.....listed in order of highest $$$/year. Dwight Freeney 5 years exp....3 probowls....56.5 sacks(11.3/year) 6 year contract, $72mil($12mil/year)....$30mil guaranteed Charles Grant 5 years exp....no probowls....26 sacks(5.2/year) 7 year contract, $63mil($9mil/year)....$20mil guaranteed Aaron Schobel 6 years exp....1 probowl....60.5 sacks(10.1/year) 7 year contract, $50.5mil($7.2mil/year)....$21mil guaranteed Ty Warren 4 years exp....0 probowls....13.5 sacks(3.4/year) 5 year contract, $36mil($7.2mil/year)....$18mil guaranteed Cory Redding 4 years exp....0 probowls....12 sacks(3/year) 7 year contract, $49mil($7mil/year)....$16.6mil guaranteed Patrick Kerney 8 years exp....1 probowl....58 sacks(7.3/year) 6 year contract, $39.5mil($6.6mil/year)....$19.5mil guaranteed Robert Geathers 3 years exp....0 probowls....17 sacks(5.7/year) 6 year contract, $33.75mil($5.6mil/year)....$12.5mil guaranteed Dewayne White 4 years exp....0 probowls....14 sacks(3.5/year) 5 year contract, $29mil($5.8mil/year)....$13mil guaranteed Chris Kelsay 4 years exp....0 probowls....12.5 sacks(3.1/year) 4 year contract, $23mil($5.8mil/year)....$11mil guaranteed Vonnie Holliday 9 years exp....0 probowls....49.5 sacks(5.5/year) 4 year contract, $20mil($5mil/year)....$10mil guaranteed Aaron Smith 8 years exp....1 probowl....34 sacks(4.3/year) 5 year contract, $24.5mil($4.9mil/year)....$8mil guaranteed Paying anyone 7 or 8 or 9 million a year who is mediocre---thats overpayment.sorry. Schobel used the fact that we had fat Pat and Ted and the other fat guy in the middle...snuck in for some unimportant sacks at unimportant times....Never got consistent pressure even when he was young. Now that he has not much support on the line he has been exposed for the utter mediocrity that he is.--That being said I think he works hard--and I dont blame him for being a slow 243 pound white man who gets manhandled and is a non-factor. If I were him I'd be stealing the Bills money too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflobarry Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I think the most underpaid is Freddy Jax but that seems like its gonna change soon. The most overpaid by far is Chris Kelsay I don't even think there's anyone more useless on the team!!!!! Although I am completey tired of seeing Ellison in a Bills uniform. Totally agree: Freddy and Kelsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeJuiceSimpson Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Paying anyone 7 or 8 or 9 million a year who is mediocre---thats overpayment.sorry. Schobel used the fact that we had fat Pat and Ted and the other fat guy in the middle...snuck in for some unimportant sacks at unimportant times....Never got consistent pressure even when he was young. Now that he has not much support on the line he has been exposed for the utter mediocrity that he is.--That being said I think he works hard--and I dont blame him for being a slow 243 pound white man who gets manhandled and is a non-factor. If I were him I'd be stealing the Bills money too. Bingo. Yes at the time we had no choice but to pay him what we did. But now that his true colors are showing it's time to cut the chord. Believe it or not guys do get old. I would like to see someone give me one reason that Schobel will have a better season than the last two. Because if you don't think he can than he should be cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Bentley Um....no. Bently. Bentleys are for wannabes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 You do realize a back only has to average 65 YPG to get 1,000 yds. That stat is a bit overrated. I agree when it was 14 games a back had to hit 72 yards per game. I think 1,150 is what should be considered a great year for a RB now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 No pro athlete is underpaid. I would absolutley agree with that statement. I haven't seen a pro athlete's salary in the last 20 years in any sport that I could say is underpaid, now in contrast to other players you could say someone is not getting payed scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Paying anyone 7 or 8 or 9 million a year who is mediocre---thats overpayment.sorry. Schobel used the fact that we had fat Pat and Ted and the other fat guy in the middle...snuck in for some unimportant sacks at unimportant times....Never got consistent pressure even when he was young. Now that he has not much support on the line he has been exposed for the utter mediocrity that he is.--That being said I think he works hard--and I dont blame him for being a slow 243 pound white man who gets manhandled and is a non-factor. If I were him I'd be stealing the Bills money too. This hinges around how good AS was(is?). You define him as mediocre. I listed 11 starting DEs who got new contracts in 2007 and ASs stats were well above all but one of them......and only a small jump above them in contract level. In 2006(leading into new contract) he had 14 sacks. This was with Tripplett & rookie Williams as his DTs.....Kelsay/Denney on the other end.....Diiorgio & Ellison as LBs.....a rotation of players at RCB......and one of the toughest schedules in the league. And not surprisingly made the probowl. Never got consistent pressure? Not even HOFer level DEs get consistent pressure. If other DEs around the league got consistent pressure......surely they would rack up more sacks than they do. Back when he got his pro-bowl there were several posters against AS.....saying he only got sacks in junk time etc. I compared AS with the only other two DEs in the league who were considered 'good' and had racked up similar numbers(Taylor & Peppers). I broke down how many sacks in individual games, at what times, against what opponents, etc, etc. Schobel compared with both. He did not have inordinate multi sack games against scrubs.....he didn't have an inordinate number of junk time sacks.....his sack numbers were spread over similar games to the others. I'm not saying AS was as good as those guys.....but he certainly was better than most DEs in the league at the time. You can make the argument that AS played like the DE equivalent of Barry Sanders(to a lesser degree) in that he produced more negative plays than the average good player.....but you still have to concede the inordinate number of BIG plays. Mediocre players don't make the big plays(sacks) to the level that AS had done. He wasn't a super-star DE when he signed in 2007.......but he was certainly well above the average starting DE in talent, consistency and production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 The most underpaid Bill is Chris Kelsay and this guy is clearly the most overpaid Bill. I have to agree here. What has he done? I love it if he was injuried next year and Schobel was healthy. I'd bet the pass rush would be better. Why Schobel kelsey was a whimp. At least Schobel makes a play every now and again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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