Bill from NYC Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I disagree with the underpayment of TE. He hasn't proven yet he deserves more money IMO. If he has a good season this year and leads the offense then he deserves a raise but he's not one of the best QB's in the league right now. I don't think that he is even seeking a raise, but what would you rather spend as a GM/Owner.....#500,000 for Trent or 7 million for Dockery? Come on now....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I have a solution to this problem. Place Schobel, Kelsay, Dockery, and Walker all on the trade block (maybe not Walker, he is ok-- not sure how big his salary is). Take any/all trade offers for draft picks you may get for them, no matter how late the draft pick may be. If you cant trade them, cut them before they hit their roster bonuses in May or March or whatever. If I am correct, all cuts/trades only hurt your cap figure for one year, in this case the '09 season. We have the cap room to eat all the cap penalties, and lets be honest, we arent going to win any games next year with DJ coaching, so just throw in the towel. That would position us to make a huge splash in FA next year, and maybe one big signing this offseasn (by giving out a small base salary for 2009, but making up for it in 2010). The signing this offseason could be resigning Greer, Crowell or Peters. We would also be in a great position to take the BPA and have it fill a need come the draft. The Bills need to trim the fat to build a championship team, things will get worse before they get better. And with our current coaching situation and upcoming scedule, I see no better time than now to do it. (this is pretty much what the Phins did this past year, they jsut had a lot less fat to trim) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I don't think that he is even seeking a raise, but what would you rather spend as a GM/Owner.....#500,000 for Trent or 7 million for Dockery? Come on now....... Trent's underpaid. Even a good backup is worth a million of more and he's at least that. I would expect his agent to try and get something done this off-season. Being injury prone, Trent is taking a lot of risk on every snap at his low rate of pay. Even worse than that is the risk he is taking playing for Jauron. That alone will reduce his free agent value in a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 OVERPAID: Donte Whitner is robbing us blind Underpaid: Trent Edwards... How many 2nd yr starting QB's make under 500k/year? How many teams in the NFL have under a million dedicated to the QB position in 2009. We have Hamdan and Edwards. Pretty crazy if u ask me. trent needs a modest extension, and we need to sign an experienced backup who can hold the clipboard for Hamdan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I have a solution to this problem. Place Schobel, Kelsay, Dockery, and Walker all on the trade block (maybe not Walker, he is ok-- not sure how big his salary is). Take any/all trade offers for draft picks you may get for them, no matter how late the draft pick may be. If you cant trade them, cut them before they hit their roster bonuses in May or March or whatever. If I am correct, all cuts/trades only hurt your cap figure for one year, in this case the '09 season. We have the cap room to eat all the cap penalties, and lets be honest, we arent going to win any games next year with DJ coaching, so just throw in the towel. That would position us to make a huge splash in FA next year, and maybe one big signing this offseasn (by giving out a small base salary for 2009, but making up for it in 2010). The signing this offseason could be resigning Greer, Crowell or Peters. We would also be in a great position to take the BPA and have it fill a need come the draft. The Bills need to trim the fat to build a championship team, things will get worse before they get better. And with our current coaching situation and upcoming scedule, I see no better time than now to do it. (this is pretty much what the Phins did this past year, they jsut had a lot less fat to trim) The Bills have trimmed so much fat every year they are playing as a 195lb D-end every season. We are consistently wayyy under the cap. We could sign all of the guys you talked about no problem, while keeping everyone on the team as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Trent's underpaid. Even a good backup is worth a million of more and he's at least that. I would expect his agent to try and get something done this off-season. Being injury prone, Trent is taking a lot of risk on every snap at his low rate of pay. Even worse than that is the risk he is taking playing for Jauron. That alone will reduce his free agent value in a couple years. and on the flip side, with trent being injury prone, the bills are taking a lot of risk by potentially extending and devoting money to a walking injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 OVERPAID: Donte Whitner is robbing us blind Underpaid: Trent Edwards... How many 2nd yr starting QB's make under 500k/year? How many teams in the NFL have under a million dedicated to the QB position in 2009. We have Hamdan and Edwards. Pretty crazy if u ask me. trent needs a modest extension, and we need to sign an experienced backup who can hold the clipboard for Hamdan. You people that think Trent is underpaid are crazy. Tom Brady WON the Super Bowl............now he was UNDERPAID. but Trent's play last year was worth NO MORE than he was paid. 7-9................who knows, Hamden may have been able to go 7-9 maybe even better than 7-9. As far as extending Trent, it would be crazy to extend him before next season ends. In the 1st place he has not had an injury free year EVER yet...........who knows he could have a career ending injury in 09, in the 2nd place he was progressivly WORSE as the year went on, & now teams have PLENTY of game film on him & know how to defend him. Next year Trent will prove he is the man, stay healthy & lead the Bills to the playoffs..........then he gets extended to a NICE contract, or he plays like he did in 08, the Bills finish 7-9 AGAIN. If the later happens, a new coach will be bringing in a NEW starting QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I don't think that he is even seeking a raise, but what would you rather spend as a GM/Owner.....#500,000 for Trent or 7 million for Dockery? Come on now....... If you look at it mathematically Dockery is a better value than Trent. Take away your bias against Dockery and in favor of Peters and the Glove wearing Mary and look at this objectively. If you take salary as an indicator then Dockery would have a high expectation level. On an addition/subtraction basis he would probably be the most disappointing. He cost 7 Mil but only produced at a 2 mil level. That means we overspent by 5 Mil. Trent couldn't even match it as he is only overpaid by 500k. I can see that argument but I think it is too simplistic as he is still producing at a 2 mil level. I think it is most fair to take salary as a numerator and production as a denominator. This means Dockery would be a 3.5 as 7m/2m is 3.5. The higher the number the less value a player holds. 3.5 is a bad number. I think any fair assessment of Trent would have his value at 0. This makes his number infinity; even with a low salary. The last time I checked, infinity is more than 3.5. I think I have been too fair to Trent as he actually produced more for our opponents than he did for us. For instance he had a zero for the Cleveland Browns as he has produced richly for them two consecutive years and has not cost them a dime. In reality his denominator for Buffalo is negative which sends the calculation into a whirl. It is basically a sign he should be dumped which rings true to the naked eye. Clean up the city boy had similar numbers and he is already gone. Hardy, Omon, Ellis, Royal, and a few others fit this category as well. You can make a case that Hardy, Omon and Ellis were rookies and should be given another chance. You can also say that Trent will be entering his rookie year in 09 based on the draft value chart. Buffalo will probably look at it this way and keep these guys. In reality he should be held accountable as he enters his fifth season in August. The best value on the team is probably Fred Jackson based on last year's $$ and production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think the most underpaid is Freddy Jax but that seems like its gonna change soon. The most overpaid by far is Chris Kelsay I don't even think there's anyone more useless on the team!!!!! Although I am completey tired of seeing Ellison in a Bills uniform. Agree to both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 The most overpaid is J.P. Losman, but not for long (lol) The most underpaid is Jason Peters. Too bad you don't have coaches salaries in there, what ever Dick Jauron makes, its too much. Excellent thread The only reason DJ is our HC is probably because he gets paid probably much less than some of the hot shot DCs in the league....It suits Ralph Fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think its a shame we even know what they make- its one more thing to hate them for. Its too bad people don't enjoy sports anymore.......they enjoy hating things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 If you look at it mathematically Dockery is a better value than Trent. Take away your bias against Dockery and in favor of Peters and the Glove wearing Mary and look at this objectively. If you take salary as an indicator then Dockery would have a high expectation level. On an addition/subtraction basis he would probably be the most disappointing. He cost 7 Mil but only produced at a 2 mil level. That means we overspent by 5 Mil. Trent couldn't even match it as he is only overpaid by 500k. I can see that argument but I think it is too simplistic as he is still producing at a 2 mil level. I think it is most fair to take salary as a numerator and production as a denominator. This means Dockery would be a 3.5 as 7m/2m is 3.5. The higher the number the less value a player holds. 3.5 is a bad number. I think any fair assessment of Trent would have his value at 0. This makes his number infinity; even with a low salary. The last time I checked, infinity is more than 3.5. I think I have been too fair to Trent as he actually produced more for our opponents than he did for us. For instance he had a zero for the Cleveland Browns as he has produced richly for them two consecutive years and has not cost them a dime. In reality his denominator for Buffalo is negative which sends the calculation into a whirl. It is basically a sign he should be dumped which rings true to the naked eye. Clean up the city boy had similar numbers and he is already gone. Hardy, Omon, Ellis, Royal, and a few others fit this category as well. You can make a case that Hardy, Omon and Ellis were rookies and should be given another chance. You can also say that Trent will be entering his rookie year in 09 based on the draft value chart. Buffalo will probably look at it this way and keep these guys. In reality he should be held accountable as he enters his fifth season in August. The best value on the team is probably Fred Jackson based on last year's $$ and production. Did Trent Edwards bang your wife or somethin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 If you look at it mathematically Dockery is a better value than Trent. Take away your bias against Dockery and in favor of Peters and the Glove wearing Mary and look at this objectively. If you take salary as an indicator then Dockery would have a high expectation level. On an addition/subtraction basis he would probably be the most disappointing. He cost 7 Mil but only produced at a 2 mil level. That means we overspent by 5 Mil. Trent couldn't even match it as he is only overpaid by 500k. I can see that argument but I think it is too simplistic as he is still producing at a 2 mil level. I think it is most fair to take salary as a numerator and production as a denominator. This means Dockery would be a 3.5 as 7m/2m is 3.5. The higher the number the less value a player holds. 3.5 is a bad number. I think any fair assessment of Trent would have his value at 0. This makes his number infinity; even with a low salary. The last time I checked, infinity is more than 3.5. I think I have been too fair to Trent as he actually produced more for our opponents than he did for us. For instance he had a zero for the Cleveland Browns as he has produced richly for them two consecutive years and has not cost them a dime. In reality his denominator for Buffalo is negative which sends the calculation into a whirl. It is basically a sign he should be dumped which rings true to the naked eye. Clean up the city boy had similar numbers and he is already gone. Hardy, Omon, Ellis, Royal, and a few others fit this category as well. You can make a case that Hardy, Omon and Ellis were rookies and should be given another chance. You can also say that Trent will be entering his rookie year in 09 based on the draft value chart. Buffalo will probably look at it this way and keep these guys. In reality he should be held accountable as he enters his fifth season in August. The best value on the team is probably Fred Jackson based on last year's $$ and production. I ran this by Nancy Pelosi. She said that Dockery provides more value. First of all he's paying a lot more in taxes. That's good. If he's spending his money then he is stimulating the economy more than Trent by a wide margin. She went on to say that she and Harry and Barack plan to raise Dockery's taxes which will further increase his value. She was also optimistic that Trent would play well next year and get a big pay increase, maybe enough to make him equal to Dockery. She really surprised me when she said that the government would consider buying the Bills if Ralph dies. She feels that the team would have the most value in Buffalo since the Bills payroll was low and could be increased which would also increase tax revenue. With elections for both NY senate seats and the Governorship in the near future, keeping the Bills in Buffalo would help to get Democrats elected and to maintsain higher taxation and spending. She did say that Ralph is a Republican and that he is no good. Off the subject of football I asked her why they would wait a year to increase taxes. She said that a larger deficit will make it easier to get tax increases passed. She felt spending first was the best measure and after all, it's not her money anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Agreed. Why we decided to extend him is beyond me. Ant to think, the Giants took Osi Umenyiora 8 spots after we took Kelsay Not trying to defend him because Kelsey blew balls this year, but check this out: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go In 2006 the year Kelsy got ended, the Bills were 8th in the league in sacks while the Giants were 23th. Kelsey, Schobel, & Denney combined for 25.5 sacks. That's pretty good productive for a DE rotation and was far better than Osi, Strahan, and the Giants' DE. Considering Kelsey was supposedly entering his prime, I really don't fault the team for extending. His play, however, just hasn't meet his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 No pro athlete is underpaid. Kelsay is most overpaid. totally disagree. If someone is willing to pay you the money, you aren't overpaid. The NFL makes billions and the guys who lay their bodies on the lie (sometimes damaging their later livelihood) deserve every penny they get. I will never have any problem with a pro football get as much money as they possibly can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hard to argue who the most underpaid Bill is considering the league minimum is well over $100k season My nomination for most overpaid Bill is Dick "Why the hell does he still have a job' Jauron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 OVERPAID: Donte Whitner is robbing us blind Underpaid: Trent Edwards... How many 2nd yr starting QB's make under 500k/year? How many teams in the NFL have under a million dedicated to the QB position in 2009. We have Hamdan and Edwards. Pretty crazy if u ask me. trent needs a modest extension, and we need to sign an experienced backup who can hold the clipboard for Hamdan. Whitner doesn't make that much money and is one of the better players on defense. He hasn't lived up to the #8 overall status (by the way look at past #8, Whitner is probably in the top half in production) but that isn't his fault. It's the Bills. He is a good, solid player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 underpaid Greer and jackson of course overpaid SCHOBEL and KELSAY of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 underpaid Greer and jackson of course overpaid SCHOBEL and KELSAY of course AS is not overpaid for his resume and his position. I know people love to hate him here but any DEs with AS' numbers would have a similar contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak tree 12 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Obviously we can't tell anything about the EFA, RFA, and FA's now but of the guys under contract who do you think? This includes total contract at the time of signing and what they are worth now. My votes are: Most overpaid: Tie: Derrick Dockery, 3/2/2007: Signed a seven-year, $49 million contract. The deal contains $18.5 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus. $8.1 million of the signing bonus was paid immediately. 2009: $2.75 million, 2010: $4.5 million, 2011: $5.65 million, 2012: $6.575 million, 2013: $6.775 million, 2014: Free Agent Aaron Schobel, 8/24/2007: Signed a seven-year, $50.5 million contract. The deal contains $21 million in guarantees, including Schobel's first four base salaries. 2008: $1.5 million, 2009: $3.5 million, 2010: $6.025 million, 2011-2012: $6.5 million, 2013: $8.5 million, 2014: Free Agent I'm leaning more toward Dockery because he really hadn't done much before getting his contract and he seems just ordinary. If he makes the Pro-Bowl this year then maybe he'll start earning it. Schobel had injuries this year but that has to factor in to it a bit. If he stays healthy this year then I think Dockery will win the award outright. Most underpaid: Marcus Stroud: 4/14/2005: Signed a five-year, $31.5 million contract. The deal included a $6.5 million signing bonus and contains $12.5 million in total guarantees. 2008: $3 million, 2009: $3.5 million, 2010: $4 million, 2011: Free Agent This is assuming Stroud doesn't get a contract extension and raise this offseason and I'm pretty sure he will be given one. Josh Reed, 3/17/2006: Signed a four-year, $10 million contract. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. 2008: $1.825 million, 2009: $2.025 million, 2010: Free Agent really man who the hell cares? whats the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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