Gaughan's Case for Andre

[K-9]

Probably the best case I've read for Andre's inclusion in the HOF. Great point about stats. They are immaterial as they can't be compared across eras in any reasonable way IMHO. But the IMPACT a player has during his career CAN be compared. Performances in big games CAN be compared. By that criteria alone, Andre is in elite company.

 

I wish I could sell Andre during that 5-10 minute presentation by the voters. I'd close that deal!

 

GO BILLS!!!

[SKOOBY]

Probably the best case I've read for Andre's inclusion in the HOF. Great point about stats. They are immaterial as they can't be compared across eras in any reasonable way IMHO. But the IMPACT a player has during his career CAN be compared. Performances in big games CAN be compared. By that criteria alone, Andre is in elite company.

 

I wish I could sell Andre during that 5-10 minute presentation by the voters. I'd close that deal!

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

Andre was an integral part of a team that went to 4 straight superbowls. There may never be another team that does that again, nor has there ever been another.

[BuffaloWings]

Andre was an integral part of a team that went to 4 straight superbowls. There may never be another team that does that again, nor has there ever been another.

Which is really the main case (IMO) for Marv, Kelly, Thurman, Bruce, & Andre....and possibly Tasker. There were members of those teams that played huge roles to fill in, but the core of the team (those I listed above) should all be in the Hall.

[TheBlackMamba]

i think colin cowherd says it best...if u can sum up why a player is a hall of famer in one sentence then he belongs there. i am not so sure u can do that with andre reed. he was one of the premier receivers of his time but:

 

A: he scored 10 td's or more just once (where as the jerry rices, chris carters, randy moss, marvin harrisons, etc.. have

B: he never had a game that sticks out to anyone else besides bills fans

C: never came up big in the super bowls

D: never won a super bowl

E: with each passing year he falls further down the the major receiving categories

[K-9]

i think colin cowherd says it best...if u can sum up why a player is a hall of famer in one sentence then he belongs there. i am not so sure u can do that with andre reed. he was one of the premier receivers of his time but:

 

A: he scored 10 td's or more just once (where as the jerry rices, chris carters, randy moss, marvin harrisons, etc.. have

B: he never had a game that sticks out to anyone else besides bills fans

C: never came up big in the super bowls

D: never won a super bowl

E: with each passing year he falls further down the the major receiving categories

 

Ok, here's my sentence then:

 

"Other than Jerry Rice, no receiver of his era had more of an impact on his team's success than Andre Reed as evidenced by the number of career and post-season reception records he held at the time of his retirement."

 

GO BILLS!!!

[TheBlackMamba]

Ok, here's my sentence then:

 

"Other than Jerry Rice, no receiver of his era had more of an impact on his team's success than Andre Reed as evidenced by the number of career and post-season reception records he held at the time of his retirement."

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

what??? their success was based on andre reed??? i beg to differ...i believe it was based more on kelly being able to run the offense and thurman thomas. andre reed has even admitted that he was not the first, not the second but the 3rd option on the team. was jerry rice montana or youngs 3rd option? was chris carter the 3rd option? i think not

[Lv-Bills]

i think colin cowherd says it best...if u can sum up why a player is a hall of famer in one sentence then he belongs there. i am not so sure u can do that with andre reed. he was one of the premier receivers of his time but:

 

A: he scored 10 td's or more just once (where as the jerry rices, chris carters, randy moss, marvin harrisons, etc.. have

B: he never had a game that sticks out to anyone else besides bills fans

C: never came up big in the super bowls

D: never won a super bowl

E: with each passing year he falls further down the the major receiving categories

So tell me again why Cris Carter is a lock for the hall? Because, B through E, he lacks any of these, and he played in a better passing era than Reed. He also had Randy Moss on the other side of him.

 

I don't get the fascination with Cris Carter.....at all.

[loyal2dagame]

i think colin cowherd says it best...if u can sum up why a player is a hall of famer in one sentence then he belongs there. i am not so sure u can do that with andre reed. he was one of the premier receivers of his time but:

 

A: he scored 10 td's or more just once (where as the jerry rices, chris carters, randy moss, marvin harrisons, etc.. have

B: he never had a game that sticks out to anyone else besides bills fans

C: never came up big in the super bowls

E: with each passing year he falls further down the the major receiving categories

 

A: for what i can remember, the players mentioned scored alot of red zone td's as their teams had little to no running game. reed scored quite a few of his td's with runs after the catch.

 

B: the comeback game sticks out in all nfl fans minds every time the playoffs come around thanks to espn and the nfl network showing replays of the entire game.

 

C: i implore you to again watch the washington superbowl and see the catches he made across the middle and the hits he took making those catches. he held on to the ball every time. that is big.

 

E: can't argue with that

[TheBlackMamba]

there no denying andre was great and a top 5 receiver of his time but ts debatable whether he is a hall of famer. i think he will get in but he is going to be waiting a while, just like art monk and lynn swan

[TheBlackMamba]

B: the comeback game sticks out in all nfl fans minds every time the playoffs come around thanks to espn and the nfl network showing replays of the entire game.

 

C: i implore you to again watch the washington superbowl and see the catches he made across the middle and the hits he took making those catches. he held on to the ball every time. that is big.

 

E: can't argue with that

 

does it really stick out to average nfl fans or just to us bills fans? i would tend to think that most nfl fans think more of the bills as a whole that game because it was the greatest comeback in nfl hostory

 

he also took a terrible personal foul (even though he was interferred with)

[K-9]

what??? their success was based on andre reed??? i beg to differ...i believe it was based more on kelly being able to run the offense and thurman thomas. andre reed has even admitted that he was not the first, not the second but the 3rd option on the team. was jerry rice montana or youngs 3rd option? was chris carter the 3rd option? i think not

 

Not what I said. Not even close. I said no RECEIVER (other than Rice) had a bigger impact on his team's success. No receiver of his era held the number of career and, more importantly, POST SEASON receiving records, at the time of his retirement. I'll stand by my sentence.

 

I think Reed was being humble and deferential in his comments about being the 3rd option on the team. If he was always the 3rd option, he doesn't put up the record numbers that he did. That simple. He was ALWAYS Kelly's go to guy. And like Gaughan pointed out, he was BEFORE the K-gun was created and he had the likes of Burkett and Johnson as number 2s.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[TheBlackMamba]

So tell me again why Cris Carter is a lock for the hall? Because, B through E, he lacks any of these, and he played in a better passing era than Reed. He also had Randy Moss on the other side of him.

 

I don't get the fascination with Cris Carter.....at all.

 

he had randy moss to help him out for 3 years...he was already considred on of the best receievers of all time befroee moss got there. he is second all time in receptions and td's. he had jim mcmahon (at the twiligh of his career), sean salibury, wade wilson, a 78 yr old warren moon and randall cunningham as he qb not jim kelly (a hall of famer)

[loyal2dagame]

does it really stick out to average nfl fans or just to us bills fans? i would tend to think that most nfl fans think more of the bills as a whole that game because it was the greatest comeback in nfl hostory

 

he also took a terrible personal foul (even though he was interferred with)

 

i know for sure it sticks out in all houston fan's minds.

 

probably steelers and dolphins fans too as those are the teams the bills beat after houston.

[bizell]

Said 11-time Pro Bowler Rod Woodson: “He had the body, he had the strength. He was tough. He was elusive. He was hard to bring down and you better bring him down or he was gone. To me he’s everything you would want in a Hall of Fame receiver. To me he’s everything a Hall of Fame receiver should be.”

[Lv-Bills]

he had randy moss to help him out for 3 years...he was already considred on of the best receievers of all time befroee moss got there. he is second all time in receptions and td's. he had jim mcmahon (at the twiligh of his career), sean salibury, wade wilson, a 78 yr old warren moon and randall cunningham as he qb not jim kelly (a hall of famer)

OK, Lets clean this up, and state fact. Randy Moss played alongside of Cris Carter for 4 full years. Reed has better postseason numbers than Cris Carter period. More catches, more TD's, and maybe most importantly, a higher YPC average in the postseason than Carter. Reed also played in 5 more postseason games. Reed and Carter both came up lame in their conference championship games, but Reed played fairly well in SB's. He had 27 catches in 4 games. Carter never got to a superbowl. Reed had 5 100 yard games in the playoffs, spread out over the course of his playoff career. Carter had two, and they came in his first 4 playoff games, and he never sniffed another 100 yard postseason performance in his final 10 games.

 

The QB situation....And yeah I feel real bad for Carter......(sarcasm on)

 

1987-1990 He sucked. Not even worth mentioning.

1990-92 Carter also had Rich Gannon - 4 time NFL All Star, and 2 Time All pro, and one time NFL MVP

1993 Jim Mcmahon who went 8-4 and lead them to the playoffs.

1994-96 "Old Ass" Warren Moon was a pro bowler in 94 and 95.

1997 Brad Johnson was 8-5 with 20 TD's and 12 INT's / 2 time all pro in his career.

1998 Randall Cunningham was an first team all pro and pro bowl starting QB

1999 Jeff George went 8-2 as a starter, won a playoff game, was a pro bowler, and threw 23 TD's to 12 INT's

2000-end - Culpepper took over and was ridiculously good, except one year.

[TheBlackMamba]

thank u for clarifying my point. he is the second most prolific receiver in almost every major receiving category of all time with 8 different quaterbacks.

 

its as easy as this:

 

they both played 16 seasons and carter has 43 more touchdowns, 701 more rec. yards, 150 more catches and 1 more pro bowl

 

case closed.

[dave mcbride]

Irrespective of perceived impact or stats, I never thought Reed was anything more than a very good player. That's not to damn him at all -- he was a very good and integral part of a team that passed to set up the run (they ended up running more than passing because they had leads). But he was nowhere near the force or threat of someone like Michael Irvin (again, forget the stats) or Jerry Rice. He had a terrific career. Just because I don't think he's a hall of fame player means that I think his career didn't amount to much. There are a lot of great players who aren't in the hall. For that matter, you can't tell me that Reed was better at his position than Wil Wolford, who had a career spanning three teams that was every bit as good as Reed's. He was also a more "important" player than Reed (read Michael Lewis's The Blind Side for this insight). Yet he won't get a sniff for the hall.

[McD]

he had randy moss to help him out for 3 years...he was already considred on of the best receievers of all time befroee moss got there. he is second all time in receptions and td's. he had jim mcmahon (at the twiligh of his career), sean salibury, wade wilson, a 78 yr old warren moon and randall cunningham as he qb not jim kelly (a hall of famer)

 

 

Dude your getting silly...I hear you and agree Reed wasn't the best ever, but damn, please come to the table with a better argument. I think we can both agree that Reed played in more of a RUN first offense than Carter...I think we can both agree that Carter had a better supporting WR cast for the majority of his career. Carter was a terrific WR, but he couldn't do was Andre did, which was run across the middle...take a 5 yd pass and turn it upfield for huge gains. Carter ran great routes and caught a lot of balls on the sidelines, and down field...I have no issue with that at all, but Reed was something special because of that, he could run outs, stretch the field AND run across the middle. Not many WR's in the Hall could compare. Let's also throw in a VERY big fact that Carter played in a DOME for most of his career!! Carter didn't have it great with Salisbury or McMahon, but they didn't play with him long and neither had a complete season with him. Also he never played a down with Wade Wilson! Please dont pretend that Warren Moon or Randall Cuningham couldn't throw the rock, you're embarrassing yourself. They both had great passing stats in the years that they played with Carter. Also, please tell me a Chris carter game that stands out for you? I can't remember a single catch of his. Look, both theses guys are deserving of the Hall...their stats are pretty similar...Carter has a slight statistical advantage, but considering the offensive schemes he played on (pass happy), and the conditions (Dome), AND the fact the guy NEVER exposed himself across the middle of the field, a case can be made for Reed ahead of Carter this Hall ballot. Will it happen? Probably not, and that's too bad. Stats are a HUGE part of the selection process, but it shouldn't be all telling, and it's not in this case...Reed was a better all around weapon.

[TheBlackMamba]

Dude your getting silly...I hear you and agree Reed wasn't the best ever, but damn, please come to the table with a better argument. I think we can both agree that Reed played in more of a RUN first offense than Carter...I think we can both agree that Carter had a better supporting WR cast for the majority of his career. Carter was a terrific WR, but he couldn't do was Andre did, which was run across the middle...take a 5 yd pass and turn it upfield for huge gains. Carter ran great routes and caught a lot of balls on the sidelines, and down field...I have no issue with that at all, but Reed was something special because of that, he could run outs, stretch the field AND run across the middle. Not many WR's in the Hall could compare. Let's also throw in a VERY big fact that Carter played in a DOME for most of his career!! Carter didn't have it great with Salisbury or McMahon, but they didn't play with him long and neither had a complete season with him. Also he never played a down with Wade Wilson! Please dont pretend that Warren Moon or Randall Cuningham couldn't throw the rock, you're embarrassing yourself. They both had great passing stats in the years that they played with Carter. Also, please tell me a Chris carter game that stands out for you? I can't remember a single catch of his. Look, both theses guys are deserving of the Hall...their stats are pretty similar...Carter has a slight statistical advantage, but considering the offensive schemes he played on (pass happy), and the conditions (Dome), AND the fact the guy NEVER exposed himself across the middle of the field, a case can be made for Reed ahead of Carter this Hall ballot. Will it happen? Probably not, and that's too bad. Stats are a HUGE part of the selection process, but it shouldn't be all telling, and it's not in this case...Reed was a better all around weapon.

 

 

mc d read all of the posts first...i started out saying reed wasnt as hall of fame worthy as rice, carter, moss, and harrison...and lv said explain to him why carter is a hall of famer

[McD]

thank u for clarifying my point. he is the second most prolific receiver in almost every major receiving category of all time with 8 different quaterbacks.

 

its as easy as this:

 

they both played 16 seasons and carter has 43 more touchdowns, 701 more rec. yards, 150 more catches and 1 more pro bowl

 

case closed.

 

 

Case hardly closed...Carter caught a WHOPPING 8 passes more a year than Reed...that's what an extra catch every other game? Wow...you're right that's ENORMOUS! Think of how many games the Bills were just running clock in the last qtr of games. We wont even talk about Carters offense or the Dome he played in...JEESH! TD's, lets not even go there...you know the Bills pounded the rock WAY more than the Vikings so of course his stats would be bloated a bit there. Why did you ignore the posts about their resective showings in the playoffs? Hmm....???