H2o Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 Draft picks are overrated. You don't give up your starting left tackle in his prime for draft picks just because he knows he is worth more than 3-4 million a year. If that starting LT is going to pull the same crap that he pulled last year and set our OL back 8 weeks again, yes I do. Draft picks aren't overrated, it's how quality teams are built. With the additional picks we could do alot for this team. This would all be relative to the fact that the LT would need to be addressed in FA with a guy like Gross of course.
The Big Cat Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 If that starting LT is going to pull the same crap that he pulled last year and set our OL back 8 weeks again, yes I do. Draft picks aren't overrated, it's how quality teams are built. With the additional picks we could do alot for this team. This would all be relative to the fact that the LT would need to be addressed in FA with a guy like Gross of course. What gives you any indication that he WON'T pull the same crap he did last year? What has he done to deserve more money, and therefore why WOULD the Bills pay him? Still want to hold out for a starting LT and a 1st rounder? EDIT: That's not fair- I should say what I think would be an appropriate trade for Peters: Another team's starter at a "need" position- (DE, OLB, C, TE) (it won't be LT) And depending on the player we get- a 1st (undoubtedly late round), or a 2nd. Or a 2nd and a 3rd.
spartacus Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 What gives you any indication that he WON'T pull the same crap he did last year? What has he done to deserve more money, and therefore why WOULD the Bills pay him? Still want to hold out for a starting LT and a 1st rounder? EDIT: That's not fair- I should say what I think would be an appropriate trade for Peters: Another team's starter at a "need" position- (DE, OLB, C, TE) (it won't be LT) And depending on the player we get- a 1st (undoubtedly late round), or a 2nd. Or a 2nd and a 3rd. Russ - go back to the Marlins. This isn't baseball where you can find gems in another team's mionor league system- not to mention you don't have a talent evaluator like Larry Beinfest to find the talent. Peters is a pro bowl talent at the 2nd most important position on the team He is getting screwed because he did not cash in on a big rookie contract when he entered the league. just pay the guy and spend your resources on improving the already existing holes on this team
BeastMode54 Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 Russ - go back to the Marlins. This isn't baseball where you can find gems in another team's mionor league system- not to mention you don't have a talent evaluator like Larry Beinfest to find the talent. Peters is a pro bowl talent at the 2nd most important position on the team He is getting screwed because he did not cash in on a big rookie contract when he entered the league. just pay the guy and spend your resources on improving the already existing holes on this team Agreed. Thank you!
The Big Cat Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 Russ - go back to the Marlins. This isn't baseball where you can find gems in another team's mionor league system- not to mention you don't have a talent evaluator like Larry Beinfest to find the talent. You're conveniently ignoring the part where I said we also bring in a starter to fill one of our own needs. Kirk Chambers was NOT that big of a drop off when Peters was out, but players like Denney, Kelsay, Ellison, and Hamdan simply won't get it done. Peters is a pro bowl talent at the 2nd most important position on the team Peters is SOMETIMES a pro bowl talent, but in the long run (over the course of this past season) he failed worse than any of his colleagues at the "second most important position on the team." Pro Bowl talent? He is getting screwed because he did not cash in on a big rookie contract when he entered the league. just pay the guy and spend your resources on improving the already existing holes on this team Big rookie contract? He was an undrafted free-agent! And a TE to boot! What has he done to deserve to be paid? You still haven't addressed this.
BuffaloBill Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 So we all know what a joke Peters is, because we watch him every week. The rest of the league looks at the guy as a "Pro Bowl" starter. I propose we trade Peters for 2 draft picks. Use one for a tackle to replace him, and the other to fill C, TE, LB, or DE. The other option is to pick up a free agent tackle to replace him, and both for TE, C, LB, or DE. What do you think? This topic has been worn out ... search previous posts
spartacus Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 You're conveniently ignoring the part where I said we also bring in a starter to fill one of our own needs. Kirk Chambers was NOT that big of a drop off when Peters was out, but players like Denney, Kelsay, Ellison, and Hamdan simply won't get it done. Peters is SOMETIMES a pro bowl talent, but in the long run (over the course of this past season) he failed worse than any of his colleagues at the "second most important position on the team." Pro Bowl talent? Big rookie contract? He was an undrafted free-agent! And a TE to boot! What has he done to deserve to be paid? You still haven't addressed this. you highlight the total ineptness of OBD's ability to evaluate talent by asserting that Chambers provides similar production to Peters. Chambers does not have the athletism or the strength to handle elite pass rushers one-on-one. He needs to have a TE glued to his hip to not be a turnstyle, the same way that Walker does - which is why the offense becomes so limited when you have slugs playing the OTs. Peters got screwed because he was an undrafted free agent - which I guess was before your time. He did not get the big money a typical top pick gets, Like Hardy, to suck and sit on the bench. Pay the guy and do us all a favor and hire a real GM to handle the football side of the business
BuffaloBill Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 you highlight the total ineptness of OBD's ability to evaluate talent by asserting that Chambers provides similar production He did not get the big money a typical top pick gets, Like Hardy, to suck and sit on the bench. Pay the guy and do us all a favor and hire a real GM to handle the football side of the business He got a fair contract as a right tackle ... problem is the Bills moved him to left. Market for LT's is considerably higher. The Bills need to own up to this and pay the guy.
Tcali Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 So we all know what a joke Peters is, because we watch him every week. The rest of the league looks at the guy as a "Pro Bowl" starter. I propose we trade Peters for 2 draft picks. Use one for a tackle to replace him, and the other to fill C, TE, LB, or DE. The other option is to pick up a free agent tackle to replace him, and both for TE, C, LB, or DE. What do you think? Fatso peters is still the best we have...trade him--and given our great judgement for talent----you have just sunk the Bills another notch lower. Bad idea.
DazedandConfused Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 So we all know what a joke Peters is, because we watch him every week. The rest of the league looks at the guy as a "Pro Bowl" starter. I propose we trade Peters for 2 draft picks. Use one for a tackle to replace him, and the other to fill C, TE, LB, or DE. The other option is to pick up a free agent tackle to replace him, and both for TE, C, LB, or DE. What do you think? This adoration of draft picks strikes me as a NY Lotto type of management strategy to building a football team. As the Lotto folks say you can't win the Lotto if you don't play, but there is simply a real difference between building a winning football team and depending primarily on the draft as a means of building a good football team. Yes good players have to come from somewhere and yes good players tend to get drafted. However, the draft is only one way of building a winner including good UDFA signings, good FA signings, and the odd trade to building a winner. Drafting well is necessary but far from sufficient in building a winner. Keeping players (even less than desirable ones) and building good chemistry seems a far more important factor to building a winner rather than simply investing in stocking up draft picks who even in good years have a 50/50 chance among first round picks of being a starter for your team in their first year, In fact, a player needs three years of play before he can reasonably be described as a bust or a hit for your team. Bills fans allowing their frustration to get the best of them and advocating shipping a player out mat feel good for dealing with this one over-priced player, but it just a different thing than building a winning team.
BillsVet Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 Peters is not going to report & we are going to have the same problem this year. F-him & his agent, get the picks and run. Fine. Go ahead and trade him in advance of a holdout. If I'm the rest of the agents who represent oncoming or current NFLers, I know the Bills are cheap and are wimps at the negotiating table when Peters is dealt. I guess arguing with people whose longest memory goes one season deep will result in this thread. The Peters of 07 was a dominating LOT. He's also 26 years old, and won't be fading away anytime soon. But because last season is the only memory most fans have the capacity for, they want to trade him. If Peters is dealt, it's the nail in the coffin for this franchise. The Bills have decided on Edwards as the future QB, and it behooves the team to protect him with the best. We want more offensive weapons for Trent, but when it comes to the best blockers they might cost too much. That's a wonderful team building strategy there.
iinii Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 So we all know what a joke Peters is, because we watch him every week. The rest of the league looks at the guy as a "Pro Bowl" starter. I propose we trade Peters for 2 draft picks. Use one for a tackle to replace him, and the other to fill C, TE, LB, or DE. The other option is to pick up a free agent tackle to replace him, and both for TE, C, LB, or DE. What do you think? maybe we could get peppers, smith and kahlil. peters is a pro bowler
oak tree 12 Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 So we all know what a joke Peters is, because we watch him every week. The rest of the league looks at the guy as a "Pro Bowl" starter. I propose we trade Peters for 2 draft picks. Use one for a tackle to replace him, and the other to fill C, TE, LB, or DE. The other option is to pick up a free agent tackle to replace him, and both for TE, C, LB, or DE. What do you think? you need a brain. you have made this personal. pro bowl LT dont grow on trees. the guy is under paid and is not a bad character guy. people hate him because he held out and it hurt his play but he still is a top 4 or 5 LT in this league and you never see a smart organization trade those type of players. get over it and stop making stupid statements like trading a pro bowl LT who is 26 years old because he is underpaid and your mad at him for trying to get paid like he deserves to be..
oak tree 12 Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 To everyone here who thinks the idea of trading Peters is idiotic: This logic is important to follow in sequence, and I'm not asking to be a smart ass, so reasonable answers would be appreciated: Do you think the Bills will give him a new contract this offseason?- I don't. If he doesn't receive a new contract this year, do you think he'll pull the same crap he did last year? I do. Do you think that said crap had a profoundly negative impact on his contribution in 2008? I do. Would another offseason hold out set him back even further? I think it would. Did we REALLY notice that big of a drop off when Chambers was in there this year? I don't think so. So far the only reasons for keeping Peters (at least presented here) are that he's our best OL talent1 (overlooking Butler to make this point, IMO), he MIGHT be our best OL talent 2, and someone inferred that you simply don't trade a your starting LT 3. If Peters is a our best OLine talent, then the whole thing needs to be blown up. Mind you, he gave up more sacks than ANY other starting LT in the NFL-- AND he missed thee games (three and a half if you count his effort against JAX). Well, he MIGHT also be a royal pain in the a$s. Given his potential value to other teams, a trade would could garner some hefty dividends. The Bills MIGHT gain a whole lot more than they lose. I think this "rule" is silly. you need to learn this game. you make all assumptions based on your opinions. "do you think we will sign him" who the hell knows and yes i think they will. second he is under contract for 2 more years. if he pulls the same crap as last year (and i dont think he will) so be it jason peters @ 80% is better than 75 % of the starting tackles in the league so whats the problem. we have enough holes to fill and like it or not peters does not hold the cards the bills do and no rookie can replace JP. so try getting realistic and not creating more holes than we allready have by suggesting something as stupid as trading a pro bowl LT in his prime who is under contract for 2 more years because of money which we have plenty of.
oak tree 12 Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 Just out of curiosity: what makes you guys think that Peters is "in his prime" or "very valuable" to the Bills these days? you need to attend the bills classes for football wives after making that idiotic statement,WTF
billsfreak Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 I don't want to trade the guy. But if some one offers a incredible deal, we'd have to take it. I'd say 2 1st's and a 2nd would be something that I could not turn down. 2 1sts and a 2nd? He isn't Peyton Manning in him prime. Have you seen the few trades that were made over the last few years? Brett Favre couldn't pull in one first rounder, Thomas Jones went for one pick on the second day of the draft. We would be lucky to get a second rounder for him much less 2 firsts and a second. My guess in maybe a 3rd rounder this year and a conditional pick next year (maybe 2nd or 3rd rounder) next year is the max we could get. I would like to see him leave, I really used to like him, but he is turning into a cancer-and not a very good left tackle. We all know if he isn't given another new contract, yes "another" new contract, he is going to hold out again. He screwed us over last year missing all of camp, so Langston Walker had to jump all over the place in the preseason and the first 3 or 4 games. One real god year and he thinks he is Anthony Munoz-not even close.
silvermike Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 So we all know what a joke Peters is, because we watch him every week. The rest of the league looks at the guy as a "Pro Bowl" starter. You know that other teams have pro personnel guys who also watch him every week, right? We're not trading with the Vikingsfans.com here.
Philly McButterpants Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 I don't understand the "let's trade Peters" mentality. Y'all are the same group that ran Ruben Brown out of town. OK so he pissed you off by holding out last year. Get over it. The guy is a proven commodity at a key position. And . . . If you think he's over-rated and undeserving of a pro bowl bid, so does every other GM in the league.
Dibs Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 To everyone here who thinks the idea of trading Peters is idiotic: This logic is important to follow in sequence, and I'm not asking to be a smart ass, so reasonable answers would be appreciated: Do you think the Bills will give him a new contract this offseason?- Definitely YES. If he doesn't receive a new contract this year, do you think he'll pull the same crap he did last year? He will receive a new contract Do you think that said crap had a profoundly negative impact on his contribution in 2008? Yes I do....but getting a new contract should put him back into top 3 LT form ala 2007 Would another offseason hold out set him back even further? Irrelevant since he will get a new contract. Did we REALLY notice that big of a drop off when Chambers was in there this year? Compared to 2007 Peters.....massive drop off. So far the only reasons for keeping Peters (at least presented here) are that he's our best OL talent1 (overlooking Butler to make this point, IMO), he MIGHT be our best OL talent 2, and someone inferred that you simply don't trade a your starting LT 3. If Peters is a our best OLine talent, then the whole thing needs to be blown up. Mind you, he gave up more sacks than ANY other starting LT in the NFL-- AND he missed thee games (three and a half if you count his effort against JAX).OMG.....Peters was a top 3 LT with potential in 2007. You explained yourself that the holdout reduced his effectiveness. This is crazy talk. Well, he MIGHT also be a royal pain in the a$s. Given his potential value to other teams, a trade would could garner some hefty dividends. The Bills MIGHT gain a whole lot more than they lose. Highly unlikely I think this "rule" is silly. You don't seem to understand the importance of the position.
H2o Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 2 1sts and a 2nd? He isn't Peyton Manning in him prime. Have you seen the few trades that were made over the last few years? Brett Favre couldn't pull in one first rounder, Thomas Jones went for one pick on the second day of the draft. We would be lucky to get a second rounder for him much less 2 firsts and a second. My guess in maybe a 3rd rounder this year and a conditional pick next year (maybe 2nd or 3rd rounder) next year is the max we could get. I would like to see him leave, I really used to like him, but he is turning into a cancer-and not a very good left tackle. We all know if he isn't given another new contract, yes "another" new contract, he is going to hold out again. He screwed us over last year missing all of camp, so Langston Walker had to jump all over the place in the preseason and the first 3 or 4 games. One real god year and he thinks he is Anthony Munoz-not even close. How many teams are in need of a "Pro Bowl" LT? Pretty sure about 1/2 of the league would want the guy on their team. I say we don't need the distraction if he's going to pull a repeat of last year. Do I really want the guy in another uniform besides a Bills uni? No. Do I know what we can get for the guy? No. The two 1st rounders and a 2nd is what I would want in return. I agree with the "cancer" talk. But he is a GOOD LT, regardless of your current opinion. He was flat out dominant in '07. You don't go from dominant to garbage in 1 season at that position and you don't have fluke years like some other positions on the field can have. Anthony Munoz? Noooooo, but he has the physical talent to play the position and be one of the best in the NFL. He reminds me of Richmond Webb. And you're list? Favre, age 39 and you forgot the conditions of the Favre pick. It could've been a 1st if they made it to the Super Bowl. Thomas Jones, age 28 and expendable at the time because they had Benson. We got two 3rd round selections and a 5th for Willis. We gave up a 3rd and a 5th, I believe, for Stroud. Look at what the Texans gave up for Schaub. Look at what the Saints gave up for Ricky. Look at what the Redskins gave up for Jason Taylor. You think that we could only get a 3rd and a conditional? I seriously doubt that. I think there's a few teams that would give up their 1st and other picks for a proven LT.
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