Solomon Grundy Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Everyone should note that Caldwall, the roadgrading center from Alabama did not have the opportunity to go agaisnt Ragi all week. Seems that the North team centers pretty much handled their business, except for Raji. I couldnt take watching the game online, and did not see it, but how did Caldwell do against Ragi? Secondly, If Mack, Unger, and Caldwell are all very talented cetners, one of them will be there in the second. If the Bills determine they are high on the big board they will take one. Don't sleep on Eric Wood from Louisville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 If you wait till the 3rd / 4th round to fill the center and tight end positions, you know what you get? Guys who, after a year or two of experience will be easily mistaken for Duke Preston and Robert Royal. Casey Wiegmann--undrafted in 1996 Matt Birk--6th round (173rd overall) in 1998 Olin Kreutz--3rd round (64th overall) in 1998 Jeff Saturday--undrafted in 1999 Shaun O'Hara--undrafted in 2000 Justin Hartwig--6th round (187th overall) in 2002 Centers are a crap shoot...better have good luck, good scouts and good coaching to find one. Not a lot of that at OBD right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 We can always draft three Centers like Indy did last year. We are BOUND to find one good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 .....Centers are a crap shoot...better have good luck, good scouts and good coaching to find one. Not a lot of that at OBD right now. OCs drafted in the 1st round virtually always pan out......2nd round OCs have an extraordinarily low bust rate(compared to most positions). All of the top OC prospects this year are projected to be 2nd round talent or better.....historically this means that it likely that all will develop into fine NFL players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Casey Wiegmann--undrafted in 1996Matt Birk--6th round (173rd overall) in 1998 Olin Kreutz--3rd round (64th overall) in 1998 Jeff Saturday--undrafted in 1999 Shaun O'Hara--undrafted in 2000 Justin Hartwig--6th round (187th overall) in 2002 Centers are a crap shoot...better have good luck, good scouts and good coaching to find one. Not a lot of that at OBD right now. Yeah, and Tom Brady was a 6th rounder, so all we have to do is pick a 6th round QB and we're GOLDEN!! Actually, in the first two rounds or so, centers are anything but a crapshoot. They have one of the highest hit rates of any position. They're very predictable. It's only when you wait a while that it gets to be a crapshoot, and that's what we have to avoid at all costs. We need to draft our center of the future THIS YEAR. That way, by 2010 when our young team hits it's prime years, our o-line will have had a year to develop continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 OCs drafted in the 1st round virtually always pan out......2nd round OCs have an extraordinarily low bust rate(compared to most positions). All of the top OC prospects this year are projected to be 2nd round talent or better.....historically this means that it likely that all will develop into fine NFL players. Only three Centers have been drated in Round 1 since 2000 (Mangold, Spencer & Faine) Seven in Round 2 (Ryan Kalil, Samson Satele, Ryan Cook, Chris Chester, Al Johnson, Bruce Nelson and Dominic Raiola). Mangold and Faine are keepers, Satele's a good prospect. The others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Thurman1, everything you read isn't always correct. I remember reading that the world was flat and Christopher Columbus discovered America. I watched the practices and I reported what I saw with my own two eyes. Alex Mack is not worthy of the 11th pick in the draft IMO and I just thank god you aren't in the decision making process down at OBD. As far as waiting past the 3rd/4th round for a center/tight end, draft guru, there is an undrafted center starting in the Super Bowl next week and an undrafted pro bowl tight end in the league. Thurman1, I suggest you put down your Mel Kiper draft guide and do your own research. So I should pretty much cross stuff out if it's written? Got it. From now on, I'll ignore anything by experts if it's written, and instead rely on stuff by people I don't know because they "saw it with their own two eyes." Did you not notice that your stuff is written too? You watched the practices that were on TV, dude. Which is to say, not all of them. If you had read the reviews, they did note that Raji had success with Mack at times, but that Mack was the only guy who had success against Raji. They were there!! You were not!! Don't know why this is not clear. There are like eight guys who saw this, they are pros, they were there the whole day and they included in their reports the parts you said you saw, but also included stuff that you apparently didn't. They have many advantages on you, and while I don't doubt what you saw with your eyes, I put MORE credence on what they saw for the reasons above. You said "As far as waiting past the 3rd/4th round for a center/tight end, draft guru, there is an undrafted center starting in the Super Bowl next week and an undrafted pro bowl tight end in the league." Wow. I never thought of it that way. I'll tell you what, considering that, let's totally give up on all our draft choices. Just don't go up to the podium and let the next guy go. Think of the money we'll save, and there'll still be all of those spectacular Pro Bowl tight ends and centers left undrafted for us to pick and choose from. Yeah, there are a few exceptions. But if you take those exceptions as the rule, you are headed for disaster. You said "I just thank god you aren't in the decision making process down at OBD." Right back atcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 According to Russ Lande, pro scout, Mack is by far the best center based on his senior bowl week: Alex Mack, C, California. He came to Mobile hoping to lay claim to the No. 1 center spot in the draft. Mission accomplished. He proved he is by far the best center on the board and offers the combination of good athleticism, size, strength and competitiveness that NFL teams love. Projection: Moved from a possible first-round pick to a definite first-rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 According to Russ Lande, pro scout, Mack is by far the best center based on his senior bowl week: Alex Mack, C, California. He came to Mobile hoping to lay claim to the No. 1 center spot in the draft. Mission accomplished. He proved he is by far the best center on the board and offers the combination of good athleticism, size, strength and competitiveness that NFL teams love. Projection: Moved from a possible first-round pick to a definite first-rounder. Best center is not the same as best center for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 A DT that is unblockable, eh? Sort of like a Cortez Kennedy, Warren Sapp, Joe Greene type of guy? Nah, he doesn't "fit our system". My reaction exactly. An unstoppable DT? Forget the centers -- focus on the DT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Only three Centers have been drated in Round 1 since 2000 (Mangold, Spencer & Faine) Seven in Round 2 (Ryan Kalil, Samson Satele, Ryan Cook, Chris Chester, Al Johnson, Bruce Nelson and Dominic Raiola). Mangold and Faine are keepers, Satele's a good prospect. The others... Faine was actually a bust for the team that drafted him. He didn't merit the first round grade in retrospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turftoe Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Don't sleep on Eric Wood from Louisville. That's the guy stat stood out the most to me! I'm not sure if he would be a better guard or center. He is big enough to battle the big nose tackles in the NFL. Mayock loved the way he played at the Senior Bowl practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Only three Centers have been drated in Round 1 since 2000 (Mangold, Spencer & Faine) Seven in Round 2 (Ryan Kalil, Samson Satele, Ryan Cook, Chris Chester, Al Johnson, Bruce Nelson and Dominic Raiola). Mangold and Faine are keepers, Satele's a good prospect. The others... 1st rounders Mangold & Faine are very good.....Spencer a solid starter from 2nd season. So....the 1st rounders all hit(they virtually always do with interior OLmen drafted in the 1st round.....which is an amazing stat). 2nd rounders from 2000-2007.....bold is non-busts.....(note: some were moved positionally along the OL but all drafted as OCs) Brad Meester.....hit....129 starts....started as rookie Dominic Raiola....hit....108 starts....started 2nd season LeCharles Bentley....2 Pro-bowls before injury shortened career Al Johnson....45 starts....we'll call him a bust Bruce Nelson....bust Jake Grove....46 starts in 5 seasons(injury prone) David Baas....22 starts in 4 seasons(injury prone) Ryan Cook.....starter by end of rookie season Chris Chester....solid starter by end of 3rd season Ryan Kalil....if not for injury would have started every game Samson Satele....started every game in two seasons 7 out of 11 didn't bust(64% success).....with the jury still out on 2 injury prone players. This is a huge percentage for the 2nd round. They don't all become probowlers(obviously).....but a very large number become consistent solid NFL players(which we are lacking at the OC position). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 1st rounders Mangold & Faine are very good.....Spencer a solid starter from 2nd season.So....the 1st rounders all hit(they virtually always do with interior OLmen drafted in the 1st round.....which is an amazing stat). 2nd rounders from 2000-2007.....bold is non-busts.....(note: some were moved positionally along the OL but all drafted as OCs) Brad Meester.....hit....129 starts....started as rookie Dominic Raiola....hit....108 starts....started 2nd season LeCharles Bentley....2 Pro-bowls before injury shortened career Al Johnson....45 starts....we'll call him a bust Bruce Nelson....bust Jake Grove....46 starts in 5 seasons(injury prone) David Baas....22 starts in 4 seasons(injury prone) Ryan Cook.....starter by end of rookie season Chris Chester....solid starter by end of 3rd season Ryan Kalil....if not for injury would have started every game Samson Satele....started every game in two seasons 7 out of 11 didn't bust(64% success).....with the jury still out on 2 injury prone players. This is a huge percentage for the 2nd round. They don't all become probowlers(obviously).....but a very large number become consistent solid NFL players(which we are lacking at the OC position). This is the kind of stuff that used to make TSW a great place to hang out. Kalil's undersized and not a long-term solution, IMO, while Cook's been moved to ORT. It's still a 50-50 crap shoot if you ask me. Quality OCs are just as likely to be found in rounds 3 and 4 if you take a guy who fits your system and who complements the OGs on either side of him (road grader vs. dancing bear). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 ......if you take a guy who fits your system and who complements the OGs on either side of him (road grader vs. dancing bear). Now this is a factor that is often ignored and can mean the difference between a player being a decent/good NFL starter for a team and looking like garbage......or even the difference between decent & bust. It also seems to be ignored regularly when assessing FAs......which explains why so many good FAs fail in their new teams......and so many failing players become solid in a new team. Though surrounding talent(& coaching) are also factors....'fitting a system' is rarely given any importance by fans & media unless it is a glaringly big misfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 From Peter King's column: "2. I think, with no games this weekend, that I'll have Phil Savage, the former Browns' general manager who scouted all the practices at the Senior Bowl in Mobile last week, check in with his thoughts on the movers and shakers among the prospects there:" ... "b. Alex Mack, the center from Cal, distanced himself from the pack at his position. He probably got himself into late in the first round." ... "i. The best three players I saw, maybe, were Cushing, Oher and Brandon Pettigrew, a tight end from Oklahoma State who is probably the most complete tight end in the country. Very impressed with him. He could go at the bottom of the first round." Two guys I like very much. Both would probably be available if we could negotiate a worthwhile trade-down. link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...5/walkup/4.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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