UConn James Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 James I look forward to your posts. At times I think I would be "Lost" when it came to "Lost" if it weren't for your insight. So here's a thanks and here's to what's hopefully another great episode tonight Aw, shucks.... I find it interesting that no one commented on my thoughts on how the monk (Brother Campbell) --- even tho he was not shown in "The Variable" --- figures into the Eloise Hawking story. (I also think not showing it would give short shrift to just how much EH grieved and agonized about what she (thinks she) had to do.) That was a pretty big part of the episode, I think, and a satisfactory tie-up even if we're never actually shown Brother Campbell talking w/ EH. The 'mystery' of her photo on his desk ain't quite so mysterious now. I figured there would be more discussion about that.... After a week of digesting "The Variable," it's also dawning on me that we don't know exactly what the effects were from Daniel Faraday using his machine on himself. The machine was designed to put future experiences/memories into the subject's consciousness --- hence, why the rat (named Eloise.. hmm) perfectly ran the maze she'd never been put into. We don't know how far into the future that Faraday had put his consciousness, but we know at least that it was Dec 2004, b/c he was crying at the sight of 815 even if 'didn't know why.' Something went screwy, and it'll be something to find out, but his mind may have had a problem either with his time-travel or his manner of death in '77 when he's alive in '04, and just resulted in a fried brain like a computer that can't handle a calculation and reboots bricks itself. This stuff could also get into how Eloise Hawking said to Penny that she 'can't see what happens for the first time in a long time.' Could she have used Daniel's machine on herself, so that she knew the future? Only, her brain didn't experience the bricking problem b/c there was no 'impossible calculation' for it to handle. This is just conjecture on my part. In his notes, too, it's funny to think back on the title of that Desmond-centric ep, "The Constant" wrt to some of my comments upthread, and Daniel's note in his journal, "Desmond Hume ... is your Constant." Desmond is the Constant / 108. Six other people are the Variables / 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42. What this means, I don't know yet.
extrahammer Posted May 6, 2009 Author Posted May 6, 2009 I think it's very good odds that she's always been an outside-Other plant that was on 815. The Tailies assumed she'd been taken... but it's just as likely that she stole away at a convenient time. Bear in mind that the Others appear to have had another plant in Oceanic. The woman at the gate, whom Hurley hugged and picked up when she called the plane back, I believe her name was Jenny or Ginny. She was also the woman at the computer at Oxford in 2007 when Desmond tried to find Faraday. She was supposed to dead-end him, only Des did some peeking for himself. Look at the list at imdb, and it's the same actress. Not a coincidence. A number of off-island Other operatives have been revealed, among them Jill and Ben's lawyer. And not a big leap (especially since she integrated so fast) to the conclusion that Cindy was put on 815 by the Others. Ah, good insight! To add to Hazed's post, James, your posts are very intriguiging and something I very much look forward to each Thursday morning. BTW, I'm planning a LOST trip to Oahu this September with a friend. Hope to catch some scene shooting.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 cool post by the same poster i quoted a couple pages back, some pretty heavy physics theory stuff: I am entirely convinced that this show is based around some theories on quantum physics, most specifically the Copenhagen interpretation. Schrodinger's Cat. If you have never heard of this very famous thought experiment, Google it. Basic gist without getting technical, is that a cat is placed in a black box with a vile of poison. There is a hammer that could crack the vile of poison, but that hammer will only be triggered if a subatomic particle near it decays in a certain way. Basically it reduces the trigger of the hammer, which would kill the hat, to be determined by an event that is ENTIRELY RANDOM, i.e. unpredictable. This is the idea of quantum superposition, which basically means that something has an infinite number of possibilities until the very moment it occurs and is observed, therefore allowing it to be measured, collapsing all of the other possibilities into the now defined value. The cat in the box is totally shielded from outside influence and observation (unless one opens the box), and it being alive or dead depends solely on the state of a subatomic particle, which at the quantum level is completely random. Thus while the cat is in the unopened box, it is both alive and dead to the observer, because the possibility of both exist, and a method of observation does not (this is not talking about a zombie cat haha). Until the box is opened and the observation/measurement can be made, the cat is both alive and dead. Once the box is opened, and it is determined that 1) the cat lived or 2) the cat died, the other possibility becomes obviously false, and its position in spacetime is relegated to an imaginary time. It could have happened, it was happening, until outside observation determined that it had not happened. Thus, time is NOT set in stone. What happened doesn't become what happened until we observe it as such. Before observation, there exists infinite timelines of possibility; after observation the timelines that did not occur collapse. Ok, so that's kind of heavy. But to put it as simply as I can, basically with the Copenhagen interpretaton of quantum physics, which was based on Einstein, accepted by Heisenberg and Neils Bohr, was that until something actually happens (and by happens I mean is observed and therefore measured to have a definite wavelength) there is an infinite number of possibilities for how it COULD happen. Because as Faraday points out, physics can predict so much, but it cannot predict the human mind, free will, and thus makes humans a variable in the equation. Quantum physics could predict alot, but it couldn't predict: if Claire's heart would win and she'd decide not to get on 815 to give Aaron up...if Sun would have the strength to leave Jin in the airport as she planned, stopping her from getting on 815...if Ben would be so cold that he could allow Alex to be shot in front of him to save his own life...etc. There was no way to determine the choices these individual minds would make before they made them, and so until they chose to act, and the acts were observed, there were infinite possibilities for these people. Once they act, the now imaginary possibilities collapse into the value now defined by the measurement.
UConn James Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Ehhh. It wasn't anything like I hoped it would be. I get why people might have called it Richard-centric, but by that same token, it revolved around Locke a lot. Lots of set-up. Next week is going to be pay-off time. At least, I hope it will be, and I expect it will be... b/c this is LOST. And nobody does finales like LOST. Anybody have any questions or was this as straightforward an ep as you can get?
Sherman Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 One thing I found interesting about last night is how Locke said the Island was telling him information like exactly when to have Richard at a specific location. If it is the island telling him then what is Jacob doing? What is his purpose? Is Locke now convinced that Jacob is not acting in the best interst of the island?
Sherman Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Another thought on the Locke and Jacob thing. Jacob said to Locke, "Help Me". Ben then tried to kill Locke when he learned that Jacob told him that. Locke seems to be on a mission now to "Save the island" at the same time will he be 'helping Jacob'? Richard and Ben both seem to be surprised that Locke is so determined to carry out his new mission. Just a thought maybe Jacob is constantly skipping through time? Something will be done that someone maybe Jack, (going on the Jack/Jacob similarities) who "sacrifices" themselves for their friends and "the island". They said last night that there could only be one leader. Jack last night said maybe Locke was right. Perhaps he is skipping in time and waiting to be relieved of his new duties by Locke, the leader of the island and its people. Quick question, didn't Hurley see Jacob?
The Jokeman Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Ehhh. It wasn't anything like I hoped it would be. I get why people might have called it Richard-centric, but by that same token, it revolved around Locke a lot. Lots of set-up. Next week is going to be pay-off time. At least, I hope it will be, and I expect it will be... b/c this is LOST. And nobody does finales like LOST. Anybody have any questions or was this as straightforward an ep as you can get? When I heard Richard-centric I was hoping to get his back story or learn more about him. Instead he's still the man of mystery. I suppose the episode was suppose to show that Jack is becoming more Lockesque and Locke is becoming more Jackish, ie taking his place as a leader for the greater good etc. The only thing I could say remotely enjoyed was Ben. As his flat out honesty with Locke and Richard was entertaining. As while I know we're not supposed to like him but Ben is my favorite character on the show. One thing I found interesting about last night is how Locke said the Island was telling him information like exactly when to have Richard at a specific location. If it is the island telling him then what is Jacob doing? What is his purpose? Is Locke now convinced that Jacob is not acting in the best interst of the island? To me it's more of a power trip thing that Locke wants to seize his power of the island and can do so once he does away with Jacob. As it reminds me of the saying, "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely". Another thought on the Locke and Jacob thing. Jacob said to Locke, "Help Me". Ben then tried to kill Locke when he learned that Jacob told him that. Locke seems to be on a mission now to "Save the island" at the same time will he be 'helping Jacob'? Richard and Ben both seem to be surprised that Locke is so determined to carry out his new mission. Just a thought maybe Jacob is constantly skipping through time? Something will be done that someone maybe Jack, (going on the Jack/Jacob similarities) who "sacrifices" themselves for their friends and "the island". They said last night that there could only be one leader. Jack last night said maybe Locke was right. Perhaps he is skipping in time and waiting to be relieved of his new duties by Locke, the leader of the island and its people. Quick question, didn't Hurley see Jacob? It's because Ben and Richard seemingly are followers of Jacob, in other words they let him lead them and tell them what to do. Whereas Locke is trying to control things on his own as let's not forget Ben said something when Locke first demanded to see Jacob like "You can't do that" or perhaps it was "It doesn't work that way". I'm pretty sure Hurley saw Jacob's or it might possibly Christian's shadow in the cabin.
UConn James Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 When I heard Richard-centric I was hoping to get his back story or learn more about him. Instead he's still the man of mystery. I suppose the episode was suppose to show that Jack is becoming more Lockesque and Locke is becoming more Jackish, ie taking his place as a leader for the greater good etc. The only thing I could say remotely enjoyed was Ben. As his flat out honesty with Locke and Richard was entertaining. As while I know we're not supposed to like him but Ben is my favorite character on the show. To me it's more of a power trip thing that Locke wants to seize his power of the island and can do so once he does away with Jacob. As it reminds me of the saying, "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely". It's because Ben and Richard seemingly are followers of Jacob, in other words they let him lead them and tell them what to do. Whereas Locke is trying to control things on his own as let's not forget Ben said something when Locke first demanded to see Jacob like "You can't do that" or perhaps it was "It doesn't work that way". I'm pretty sure Hurley saw Jacob's or it might possibly Christian's shadow in the cabin. Ben is kind of like Falstaff in that way. He does things that make you not like him, but then he comes out with some great one-liners. "Whaddya think, I'm gonna stage a cooouuup?!?" But I think his funniest scene was w/o words --- where he and Hurley were waiting outside of the Orchid(or was it the Jacob's cabin?) and Hurley had the candy bar. I'm not so sure that we yet get what Locke means in that he's going to "kill Jacob" and we surely don't know why. And I also don't know how much we can associate Jacob with the smoke monster... the monster that was jonesing to pull Locke into the rabbit hole much the same way it pulled the Frenchies under the Temple. The monster can re-animate the dead (Alex in "Dead is Dead"). It remains to be seen what re-incarnated Locke (or Suit Christian or Grunge Christian)... The Island, Jacob or the Smoke Monster? We do not know the relationship b/w these entities, if they operate together (and to what extent) or if they are adversarial. We'll see how strongly Richard/Ben are followers of Jacob vice followers of Locke. ... If there's a difference.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Ben is kind of like Falstaff in that way. He does things that make you not like him, but then he comes out with some great one-liners. "Whaddya think, I'm gonna stage a cooouuup?!?" But I think his funniest scene was w/o words --- where he and Hurley were waiting outside of the Orchid(or was it the Jacob's cabin?) and Hurley had the candy bar. I'm not so sure that we yet get what Locke means in that he's going to "kill Jacob" and we surely don't know why. And I also don't know how much we can associate Jacob with the smoke monster... the monster that was jonesing to pull Locke into the rabbit hole much the same way it pulled the Frenchies under the Temple. The monster can re-animate the dead (Alex in "Dead is Dead"). It remains to be seen what re-incarnated Locke (or Suit Christian or Grunge Christian)... The Island, Jacob or the Smoke Monster? We do not know the relationship b/w these entities, if they operate together (and to what extent) or if they are adversarial. We'll see how strongly Richard/Ben are followers of Jacob vice followers of Locke. ... If there's a difference. We maybe jumping to conclusions that the entity that said "help me" was indeed Jacob. It could have been the spirit of the island itself and the entity known as Jacob may be working against the island. There could be quite a battle going on between the island, the twin Christians, ghosts of Dharmas past, etc. PTR
EZC-Boston Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 As someone who doesn't watch the previews at the end of each episode, this season finale will be the most anticipated yet. I have no idea what to expect. I do know this: last year's finale or maybe it was the year before, was as good as most feature length films I have seen in the last few years. Regarding this episode, I liked that we got back to multiple story lines at once. First we get to see more characters, second, we can see some how things intertwine in "real" time. I know some people will say we don't get as much detail this way but I personally like it. Will we ever know Richard?
UConn James Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 As someone who doesn't watch the previews at the end of each episode, this season finale will be the most anticipated yet. I have no idea what to expect. I do know this: last year's finale or maybe it was the year before, was as good as most feature length films I have seen in the last few years. Regarding this episode, I liked that we got back to multiple story lines at once. First we get to see more characters, second, we can see some how things intertwine in "real" time. I know some people will say we don't get as much detail this way but I personally like it. Will we ever know Richard? I think it was a misnomer to call FTL Richard-centric, but to be fair, I think most of the big sites didn't have an entry for centricity. The "multiple story lines" are carried, I think, exclusively in the season finales. It seemed to drop centricity with this ep, rather than next week. Doing this picks up the pace of the action/drama, which is probably what makes the finales so awesome --- we get a lot of information and action in a short time-span. But then again, it sacrifices the depth that we get in the flashback/flashforward eps. But any way it comes, I'll take it. Other notes from last night.... It was apparent that Kate is anti-changing the past b/c she wants what has happened to happen. Otherwise she will never have met Jack, Sawyer et al. But more than that, I think, is her realization that if Jack succeeds, she will be carted straight off to a long prison stay. Yellow-fonted for EZC; re: next week's preview. How anti-climactic is it that we're left this week with Sawyer, Juliet and Kate being whisked away on the sub. And then 10 minutes later in the preview, it shows them back on the island holding guns. I watch the previews and usually consider them fair game for discussion, but that gave away too much. So Darlton, that was pretty sh-------. They have to spill Richard's backstory sometime. No one will be satisfied w/o it. I guess they're just waiting, maybe b/c it's going to be that awesome.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Other notes from last night.... It was apparent that Kate is anti-changing the past b/c she wants what has happened to happen. Otherwise she will never have met Jack, Sawyer et al. But more than that, I think, is her realization that if Jack succeeds, she will be carted straight off to a long prison stay. They have to spill Richard's backstory sometime. No one will be satisfied w/o it. I guess they're just waiting, maybe b/c it's going to be that awesome. could the oft mentioned "Coming War" be between people who want to change the future and those that dont? while last nights episode wasnt completely Richard-centric, we did learn some things about him. he isn't the leader in disguise as some of us thought. he is the "advisor" to the leader. sorta like an ancient priest was to a pharaoh? we still dont know what his whole back story is, but its starting to shape up. could he have been an advisor to Jacob (the REAL leader) and trapped him in time in order to take control of the island?
Andrew in CA Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 As someone who doesn't watch the previews at the end of each episode, this season finale will be the most anticipated yet. I have no idea what to expect. I do know this: last year's finale or maybe it was the year before, was as good as most feature length films I have seen in the last few years. Regarding this episode, I liked that we got back to multiple story lines at once. First we get to see more characters, second, we can see some how things intertwine in "real" time. I know some people will say we don't get as much detail this way but I personally like it. Will we ever know Richard? I agree re: season finales- no one does them like Lost. The season 3 finale, with the surprise flash-forward at the end, is the best episode of any show I've ever seen. They're gonna have a lot to work with this year.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I agree re: season finales- no one does them like Lost. The season 3 finale, with the surprise flash-forward at the end, is the best episode of any show I've ever seen. They're gonna have a lot to work with this year. haha, i almost posted the same thing. its truly the pinnacle, the turning point, the apex, of the best show ever made for tv.
UConn James Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Another moment... Dr. Chang: What year were you born? Who's president? Hurley: Uhhh... Something I read in a recap.... The introduction --- Richard Alpert building a ship in a bottle. A clue pointing to a connection to the Black Rock, perhaps? Also, what of Richard's assertion that he saw all of the '77 travelers get killed? Or do they disappear after Jack sets off the bomb, or if he doesn't? We'll see. It's also something to see Jack's transformation. Calls to mind Locke's assertion in the hatch along the lines of 'You believe in destiny, you just don't know it yet.' How much of that was just a comeback and how much was it maybe a subconscious knowledge on the part of Locke? Link My best guess at this point, actually, is that Dan was right in the first place: whatever happened, happened, and every action the time-unstuck characters take will only ensure that history goes along the proper course. Maybe if Radzinsky weren't losing his mind about a possible attack by the Hostiles, or if Jack weren't attempting to assault the Swan with a freakin' hydrogen bomb, the Incident never would have happened. We've already seen Charlotte and Miles and their mothers evacuated from the island just as they remember -- with Miles finally coming to understand why his father was such an apparent bastard to him and his mother -- and that only happened because of the time travel. As Eloise told Desmond, the universe has a way of course-correcting, and I'm assuming the season ends with the Incident having taken place, followed by Jack, Sayid, Kate and company hurled back to the present, having accomplished nothing but ensuring the predetermined flow of history. My money's on that, too. I'm also reading speculation that Jughead being stored underneath the DI's yellow-house compound might explain some of the fertility issues. A commenter suggests that he thinks Kate is preggers from her and Jack's pre-flight nookie. It would re-create that part of the flight with someone being with child (Claire). I know it sounds a little disingenuous, but that's a thought I've had as well.
extrahammer Posted May 8, 2009 Author Posted May 8, 2009 Another moment... Dr. Chang: What year were you born? Who's president? Hurley: Uhhh... Something I read in a recap.... The introduction --- Richard Alpert building a ship in a bottle. A clue pointing to a connection to the Black Rock, perhaps? Also, what of Richard's assertion that he saw all of the '77 travelers get killed? Or do they disappear after Jack sets off the bomb, or if he doesn't? We'll see. It's also something to see Jack's transformation. Calls to mind Locke's assertion in the hatch along the lines of 'You believe in destiny, you just don't know it yet.' How much of that was just a comeback and how much was it maybe a subconscious knowledge on the part of Locke? Link My money's on that, too. I'm also reading speculation that Jughead being stored underneath the DI's yellow-house compound might explain some of the fertility issues. A commenter suggests that he thinks Kate is preggers from her and Jack's pre-flight nookie. It would re-create that part of the flight with someone being with child (Claire). I know it sounds a little disingenuous, but that's a thought I've had as well. Good stuff, I've thought all along that Kate could be preggers as well, we will see. If that's the case, what in the world will go on in season 6?
YOOOOOO Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 could the oft mentioned "Coming War" be between people who want to change the future and those that dont? while last nights episode wasnt completely Richard-centric, we did learn some things about him. he isn't the leader in disguise as some of us thought. he is the "advisor" to the leader. sorta like an ancient priest was to a pharaoh? we still dont know what his whole back story is, but its starting to shape up. could he have been an advisor to Jacob (the REAL leader) and trapped him in time in order to take control of the island? DING DING DING Locke killing Jacob = freeing Jacob.... and what lies at the foot of the statue(or however that goes)....Jacobs tomb??
UConn James Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 LOST "Spoilers" I really don't consider any of this "spoilers." Vagaries and doesn't tell us anything we don't already know is coming (especially how the last of the O6 got on the Ajira plane), and JG poses an interesting thought about the guitar case. I'm making a decision not to yellow-font this b/c I don't think it warrants it. But If you want to stay absolutely positively 100% LOST-pure, then stop reading now. Question: Got any scoop on the “Lost” finale? --CarolynAusiello: Funny, we posed that exact question to Damon Lindelof at the Hollywood premiere of "Star Trek" earlier this week. "All I will say is that it is time for the time travel craziness to end," he said. "And once it does end, something very, very surprising will happen in its wake. It is a little bit of a game-changer." Question: Any spoilers about “Lost's” season finale? Please! --Sarah Ausiello: Funny, we posed that exact question to Jorge Garcia at the Hollywood premiere of "Star Trek" earlier this week. "People will find out why (Hurley) got on the plane and how he came to get that guitar case in his hands," he said. "I've been wondering about that, too. I remember at one point asking a question about it and getting a, 'We don't know yet.' I had to ask once, 'How heavy is it? Is it just a guitar? Is it something else? How heavy is it supposed to be?' Sometimes I get an empty case to lug around in a scene and sometimes it has a guitar in it, but we don't actually know what's in it because that has not been (revealed) yet. It could be a case full of food or money or guns or papers or anything. So you see me get the case by the finale, but I don't know that we will find out what's in it. It was hard for me to play because at first I did not understand why Hurley would have ever changed his mind about going back to the island, and I'm sure fans are thinking the same thing. So it will be nice to be able to give them that information."
UConn James Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Doing a bit of reading on imdb.... JJ Abrams' entry reads that one of his trademarks is a "box with mysterious contents." Then, watching the mobisodes for the first time on Youtube.... Then I stumbled on a JJ Abrams' talk at something called TED. If you haven't watched it, take the 18 minutes and do so!
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