DrDawkinstein Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 another great episode. cant wait for next week!! (although that means no more LOST for almost a year )
PromoTheRobot Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 All I will say is I will be damn impressed if they actually tie up every loose plot thread by the time Lost finishes. I mean EVERY thread, and there are a crap-load. The show is still intriguing but it's been walking the fence into "Twin Peaks" territory. PTR
DrDawkinstein Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 All I will say is I will be damn impressed if they actually tie up every loose plot thread by the time Lost finishes. I mean EVERY thread, and there are a crap-load. The show is still intriguing but it's been walking the fence into "Twin Peaks" territory. PTR i dont need, nor do i want, everything explained. not directly anyways. one of my favorite parts of the show is that it sparks such great conversation about all sorts of topics. history, art, science, religion, etc. and even more so, the theories. id rather be left with some things we get to "guess" about. itd be nice if they hinted at an explanation for some things, but left it up to us to discuss. i dont need everything wrapped up with a bow and handed to me. but then again, ive been known to turn movies off about 15-20 minutes before the real ending so it stays interesting. and really, what is left to wrap up outside of the main story (of which i think we got a much better picture of tonight)? what loose plot threads are left that, it left unexplained, will ruin it for you?
Sherman Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I was hoping for more from this episode like why does the island time travel and how does the island move. I don't like the variable conversation. If they detonate the bomb on the magnetic field then 815 never crashes. If 815 never crashes then they never go back in time and detonate the bomb. If they don't detonate the bomb then 815 crashes. If 815 crashes then they try to detonate the bomb when they time travel. The variable conversation is flawed for this show because throughout the show they have always said you can not change the past. If it happened then it always happened that way. Also, doesn't Faraday know that you can't change things? Everything will correct itself over time. Charlie dying, Demonds journey to the island...
Andrew in CA Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I was hoping for more from this episode like why does the island time travel and how does the island move. I don't like the variable conversation. If they detonate the bomb on the magnetic field then 815 never crashes. If 815 never crashes then they never go back in time and detonate the bomb. If they don't detonate the bomb then 815 crashes. If 815 crashes then they try to detonate the bomb when they time travel. The variable conversation is flawed for this show because throughout the show they have always said you can not change the past. If it happened then it always happened that way. Also, doesn't Faraday know that you can't change things? Everything will correct itself over time. Charlie dying, Demonds journey to the island... I think that Faraday's death proved that his variable theory was incorrect, since his mother had known since his birth that she would kill Faraday. However, Jack and Kate don't know this, and after seeing the previews for next week, it looks like Jack might have really taken that theory to heart. I think the biggest question left from this episode is: why did Eloise send Jack to the island, and why did Daniel so vehemently insist she was wrong? F'in great episode.
EZC-Boston Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I miss the days of giant threads from 1 episode. There used to be a ton of discussion when episodes were half as interesting as last night's. I think we're all just a little burnt out and we've set the bar pretty high. I don't watch the previews for next week but questions coming out of last night: -What are they Dharma people going to do with Sawyer & co? I'm pretty sure bringing up time traveling to the Dr. is their best option. Miles could have cleared everything up but chose not to. -Is Daniel really dead? The island has healing powers, doesn't it? -Is this the last we see of Des and Penny? -Whose side is Eloise on? Ben's? Widmore's? Her own? Pretty interesting that Eloise said it was the first time in a long time she didn't know what would happen next. That may be a bad thing. Anything else big I missed?
UConn James Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I was hoping for more from this episode like why does the island time travel and how does the island move. I don't like the variable conversation. If they detonate the bomb on the magnetic field then 815 never crashes. If 815 never crashes then they never go back in time and detonate the bomb. If they don't detonate the bomb then 815 crashes. If 815 crashes then they try to detonate the bomb when they time travel. The variable conversation is flawed for this show because throughout the show they have always said you can not change the past. If it happened then it always happened that way. Also, doesn't Faraday know that you can't change things? Everything will correct itself over time. Charlie dying, Demonds journey to the island... I think that Faraday's death proved that his variable theory was incorrect, since his mother had known since his birth that she would kill Faraday. However, Jack and Kate don't know this, and after seeing the previews for next week, it looks like Jack might have really taken that theory to heart. I think the biggest question left from this episode is: why did Eloise send Jack to the island, and why did Daniel so vehemently insist she was wrong? F'in great episode. What a storyline. The theme of sacrifice shows up again, and likely is tie-in of the connection b/w Eloise Hawking and the monk. Consider the difficulty that she must have had in trying to make "whatever happened" happen --- namely killing her son. The monk talked to Desmond about sacrifice re: Abraham, and with good reason. We may never see a scene of their meeting, b/c it may be clear enough. Sacrifice was heavily on the monk's mind since EH came to him c. 1996 for guidance/comfort/etc. and probably also told him that Desmond had to be set up with Penny. There's something else to her, tho. How does she know the future, and so clearly? So clearly as to know when and where a guy a with red shoes is going to be crushed by a piano. But, more important, is her apparent loss of this power in the hospital when she says she doesn't know what will happen to Des (I forget, did she say "see"? Could it be similar to Des's flashes?). More on this below. I believe this arcs (in what I'm going to call the midpoint reflection reading that I've written about before) with Locke's sacrifice of Boone (That happened ~20 eps into S1, this is happening with ~20 eps left). Compare the level of premeditation --- Locke had a dream, somewhat vague, but he seemed to get the gist of it, followed it and Boone died. EH makes a conscious, rational decision and follows it for 27 years to sacrifice her son. Despite the inscription on the notebook, you have to wonder to what extent she loves Daniel --- psychologically, it's easier to treat him as an object. There's the tonnage of raising him, pushing him in physics, and denying him other pleasures. In the scene that expounded on semi-veggie-Daniel's introduction, where she's trying to convince him to go to the island where Eloise's eyes are saying, "Come on, get on with it!" Onscreen, she doesn't seem to ever really question her role; she does give a testy response to Widmore... It is a willing sacrifice, like Abraham, but there's a hint of anger that she has to do it. Faraday was on that WHH Constant-focused kick for a while. But, here's something. What if the Numbers/Valenzetti equation are actual people. Desmond is the Constant. And maybe not for nothing that there are 6 Variables (4, 8, 15...). That may be why EH was especially interested in Desmond --- her focus was always the Constant, in trying to preserve the WHH principle. But Faraday's notion of the Variable(s) is probably correct --- dude knows his sh-- --- and it's what he was working on at Ann Arbor. Changing the equation was always Dharma's goal. What constitutes "changing" it, if the variables are people? EH can't see what happens to Des --- what happens to the Constant. She seems surprised and bewildered by this. Hmm. Much the same as the Science/Faith theme running b/w Jack & Locke, there seems to be one b/w Faraday and EH, his mother. (Bear in mind her connection with the monk, and that the lamppost is in a church.) She has faith in the Constant. Faraday was conducting experiments to change things. Interesting to note the meeting b/w Young Charlotte and Faraday. The same words about chocolate. In other areas, Sawyer is further devolving into the very same Man Without A Plan that he accused Jack of being. Either escape in the sub or go to the beach. Woo hoo! That's higher intelligence at work, there! Juliet giving them the fence code = "Go read a book, Sawyer. Jack's back!"
RayFinkle Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I was hoping for more from this episode like why does the island time travel and how does the island move. I don't like the variable conversation. If they detonate the bomb on the magnetic field then 815 never crashes. If 815 never crashes then they never go back in time and detonate the bomb. If they don't detonate the bomb then 815 crashes. If 815 crashes then they try to detonate the bomb when they time travel. The variable conversation is flawed for this show because throughout the show they have always said you can not change the past. If it happened then it always happened that way. Also, doesn't Faraday know that you can't change things? Everything will correct itself over time. Charlie dying, Demonds journey to the island... and you know this through you time travel experiences? theory is not fact.
UConn James Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 and you know this through you time travel experiences? theory is not fact. But... if Daniel's plan is carried out and 815 never crashes, what would happen to the 815ers in '77? Would they vanish? Would they just live out their lives in an alternate string of time?
duey Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I'm going to continue to lean heavily on a theory I posted earlier. Certain people seem to know so much about what's going on and what's going to happen...i.e. the later Richard, Eloise, Ben, Windmore(?). My theory is that there is one big loop taking place (i.e. very much like Groundhog Day), where the same group of people are going around and around and around, with the island tweaking things in the hopes that something (who knows what) will finally happen. Some people maybe are allowed to remember while others aren't. Something I read the other day substantiates this theory even more. Once Lost is complete, Abrahms and Lindelof are going to make a movie of Stephen King's Dark Tower. A & L are big King fans...and King is a big Lost fan. Here's the kicker (and I'm sorry if I ruin the Dark Tower series for anyone...spoiler ahead)...at the end of the final installment of the Dark Tower series, Roland realizes that his whole life, the entire journey that he took to get to the Dark Tower, is a loop. He enters a room in the Tower and is sent back to where book one of the series began, seemingly to do it all over again. And as he realizes where he is and what is happening, he starts to forget and the whole thing starts all over again. Given that the final book in the series came out in 2004 (coincidentally the same year that Lost premiered), could A & L have taken a page from Mr. King's book in regards to the loop idea? And very much like the Dark Tower series, where Roland and the others frequently encountered characters/scenes/references to other King books, one can not ignore how the Lost characters frequently encountered characters/scenes/references to each other before getting on Flight 815. Lastly, sacrifice, as pointed out many times in this thread, has such a strong presence on this show. Again, so it does in the Dark Tower. I'm pretty jazzed about this theory...thoughts? P.S. Anyone remember who the author was of the book Juliette was discussing during the book club meeting...hmmm? P.P.S. And perhaps this whole thing has been going on for centuries given the age of the temple, the statue, etc. Eventually, people do die off and new "players" are brought in.
UConn James Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 EW Lost recap Daniel's youth was a big pile of no-fun. Eloise pushed him hard — like Gypsy-mom hard, like Carrie-mom hard, like Texas Cheerleader Mom hard — to become a grant-scoring, youngest-Oxford-doc-ever, time travel machine-inventing genius, even at the expense of a conventional mother-child relationship. Something sticks in my craw here... What Christian Shepard said to Jack about how he had to sacrifice certain parts of the father-son relationship so Jack could become the finest surgeon in the city, etc. Reflect on all of these parents or parental action that have driven them to be the people they are. Some are special, tho, and rather than being some byproduct of circumstance, they were (had to be) specially nurtured to become what they are. What significance do they have? Are they more special? Who is included in this group? Jack, Charlotte, Faraday, Miles (Dr. Chang sent him away not b/c he didn't love them, but in a similar sacrifice so his son would develop his power), and, I would argue, Locke --- in a rather weird sense of nurturing.
The Jokeman Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I'm going to continue to lean heavily on a theory I posted earlier. Certain people seem to know so much about what's going on and what's going to happen...i.e. the later Richard, Eloise, Ben, Windmore(?). My theory is that there is one big loop taking place (i.e. very much like Groundhog Day), where the same group of people are going around and around and around, with the island tweaking things in the hopes that something (who knows what) will finally happen. Some people maybe are allowed to remember while others aren't. Something I read the other day substantiates this theory even more. Once Lost is complete, Abrahms and Lindelof are going to make a movie of Stephen King's Dark Tower. A & L are big King fans...and King is a big Lost fan. Here's the kicker (and I'm sorry if I ruin the Dark Tower series for anyone...spoiler ahead)...at the end of the final installment of the Dark Tower series, Roland realizes that his whole life, the entire journey that he took to get to the Dark Tower, is a loop. He enters a room in the Tower and is sent back to where book one of the series began, seemingly to do it all over again. And as he realizes where he is and what is happening, he starts to forget and the whole thing starts all over again. Given that the final book in the series came out in 2004 (coincidentally the same year that Lost premiered), could A & L have taken a page from Mr. King's book in regards to the loop idea? And very much like the Dark Tower series, where Roland and the others frequently encountered characters/scenes/references to other King books, one can not ignore how the Lost characters frequently encountered characters/scenes/references to each other before getting on Flight 815. Lastly, sacrifice, as pointed out many times in this thread, has such a strong presence on this show. Again, so it does in the Dark Tower. I'm pretty jazzed about this theory...thoughts? P.S. Anyone remember who the author was of the book Juliette was discussing during the book club meeting...hmmm? P.P.S. And perhaps this whole thing has been going on for centuries given the age of the temple, the statue, etc. Eventually, people do die off and new "players" are brought in. Richard definitely knows things. As let's not forget after Eloise killed Daniel, Richard told he that Daniel wasn't going to kill him. That said I was a little surprised that Richard acted like he didn't know Daniel since neither one aged since their last encounter. But... if Daniel's plan is carried out and 815 never crashes, what would happen to the 815ers in '77? Would they vanish? Would they just live out their lives in an alternate string of time? I think they would indeed vanish just likey they "appeared" in the photo Farraday had of the 1977 recruitment photo. Yet I think Faraday's speech to Jack and Kate about people being variables could prove remembering. As even though it seems Jack and Kate seem destined to go set off the Jughead think there's a very likely chance they won't because if they do there's a it's likely they'll never meet but even worse Kate would be giving up her freedom as let's not forget she was on her way to LA to eventually stand trial and would imagine now that not the victim or a plane crash or a mother or without Jack's testimony of how good she is likely off to prison. As I can just imagine this season's finale Kate giving Jack a long winded speech and crying about losing her freedom etc. Or another twist could be if they do it next season will be dedicated to what happened to those main characters we've come to love from 815 et all had the plane not crashed. Perhaps an episode per character. Another side point that found interesting that once again when given the choice to go with Jack or not Hurley choose not to. Also before they were caught had a pit in my stomach that by staying on the island that Sawyer and Juliette were going to turn out to be Adam and Eve but again it could be Jack and Kate as if they chose not to let the Jughead go boom I can't see them staying with the Hostiles nor can't go back to the Dharma group. Yet again it could be as forecasted before Rose and Bernard and this likely might be the last question answered on the show. I admit last night's show confirmed many thing many of us knew or thought knew but there are still a few things the writers can do to surprise us.
extrahammer Posted May 6, 2009 Author Posted May 6, 2009 Follow The Leader is the episode tonight, leading into next week's 2 hour finale, but 3 hour LOST event! Could be Richard-centric but I think it'll be Locke centric. Should be gearing up with intensity. And I don't think Daniel's dead.
UConn James Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 LOST 5.15 - "Follow the Leader" - (ABC promo copy) Jack and Kate find themselves at odds over the direction to save their fellow island survivors, Locke further solidifies his stance as leader of "The Others," and Sawyer and Juliet come under scrutiny from the Dharma Initiative. Several places I've looked said it will be Richard-centric. Be prepared for awesome-ness. Yellow-fonted spoiler: With a "Capt. Bird, an honorable ship captain" in the character descriptions, I believe we're going to learning more about the Black Rock.
Andrew in CA Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Follow The Leader is the episode tonight, leading into next week's 2 hour finale, but 3 hour LOST event! Could be Richard-centric but I think it'll be Locke centric. Should be gearing up with intensity. And I don't think Daniel's dead. In the Lost podcast w/ Damon and Carlton, the show's exec. producers, they all but said Daniel is dead. And though I wanted to know more about Daniel, especially what he was doing in Ann Arbor, I'm glad they're finally killing off a character- no more of this "he got shot but survived!" crap they pulled with young Ben. I think we are going to see a Jack/Locke juxtaposition tonight, with Locke solidifying his role in 2007 and Jack starting to take the reigns from Sawyer in 1977. I'm really beginning to feel more and more that Jack is Jacob, or has a deep connection to the island that has yet to be revealed. Edit: I swear I did not take the "solidifying" part from the promo, I just saw UConn's post!
extrahammer Posted May 6, 2009 Author Posted May 6, 2009 One question I think that's been lingering is Cindy (???) from the tail section, who was walking through the jungle with Ana Lucia and a few others, just disappeared, and has been seen many times with THE OTHERS. What's up with that?
UConn James Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 One question I think that's been lingering is Cindy (???) from the tail section, who was walking through the jungle with Ana Lucia and a few others, just disappeared, and has been seen many times with THE OTHERS. What's up with that? I think it's very good odds that she's always been an outside-Other plant that was on 815. The Tailies assumed she'd been taken... but it's just as likely that she stole away at a convenient time. Bear in mind that the Others appear to have had another plant in Oceanic. The woman at the gate, whom Hurley hugged and picked up when she called the plane back, I believe her name was Jenny or Ginny. She was also the woman at the computer at Oxford in 2007 when Desmond tried to find Faraday. She was supposed to dead-end him, only Des did some peeking for himself. Look at the list at imdb, and it's the same actress. Not a coincidence. A number of off-island Other operatives have been revealed, among them Jill and Ben's lawyer. And not a big leap (especially since she integrated so fast) to the conclusion that Cindy was put on 815 by the Others.
eSJayDee Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Yellow-fonted spoiler: W/o spoiling your spoiler, you might well be right, but didn't we already encounter a character of similar title affiliated w/ another entity that would be described as "honorable"? I don't recall his name. I realize this means nothing, but we know that this particular character died in previous episode.
UConn James Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 W/o spoiling your spoiler, you might well be right, but didn't we already encounter a character of similar title affiliated w/ another entity that would be described as "honorable"? I don't recall his name. I realize this means nothing, but we know that this particular character died in previous episode. The freighter captain, yeah. But considering how it may link in with Richard in his centric episode, combined with the fact that the Black Rock is just begging to be revisited in a season where there's been a lot of revisitations from previous seasons.... I think it's pretty likely.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 The freighter captain, yeah. But considering how it may link in with Richard in his centric episode, combined with the fact that the Black Rock is just begging to be revisited in a season where there's been a lot of revisitations from previous seasons.... I think it's pretty likely. James I look forward to your posts. At times I think I would be "Lost" when it came to "Lost" if it weren't for your insight. So here's a thanks and here's to what's hopefully another great episode tonight
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