UConn James Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 at Hurley and Miles' time-traveling theory discussion. How did that not occur to Miles before... that Old Ben would know/remember the Losties/Freighties when they arrived in 2004. Dude's had 3 years and can talk to the dead, yet can't reason among the living. So, we find out that Kate gave Aaron to Claire's mother and that she told (?) all about everything that happened on the island. She stopped lying, except about Aaron. Am I right, that each one of the O6 told someone the truth, except Jack? And even he gave a cryptic message to his grandfather, Ray. Kate, always the one to run away from her troubles. Now she's running to something. Why all the discussion tonight about Kate needing Aaron... and then her admission that she knew he'd be lost/gone/taken. Why did she 'need' him? Or is that just going into her histrionics of the desire to settle down? Not for nothing that the woman in the market looked like Claire from behind, and even when she started to turn her head, I was saying, "Whhuu... Oh. OK." And still, there's the weird feeling... the psychic said it had to be Claire who raised Aaron (or, the couple in LA, if that was genuine.... I had thought Kate might give Aaron to Hurley's parents --- a couple in LA. "Man, I was way off!") --- but... Claire's mother is not Claire. Jack took the side that he would kill Baby Hitler. Juliet, Sawyer & Kate would let him live. And regardless, "Whatever Happened Happened." Jack didn't perform surgery, but what if he got it backwards? What if the island brought him there to do that in 1977, he didn't then and so he has to in 2004? So much for Sawyer being the 'only one with a plan' even tho he's winging it even more than the Losties ever did under Jack. And like I said, Jack isn't going to take this for long. And then comes maybe the biggest moment of the night, of course, near the end, as Richard takes Ben to the Temple. Maybe we'll learn next week what Richard means by, If he fixes Ben, he'll 'lose his innocence' and will always be an Other. (And what does this mean re: Widmore?). Whatever, next week's preview looked f---ing awesome, and I think we get a big dose of what the 'smoke monster' is vis-a-vis Ben being "judged." And in what sense he's being judged --- is it the traditional religious definition of judgment, his effectiveness as the Others' leader (and hence, by Jacob), or some kind of trial similar to Juliet's? Maybe we finally get to see what it was that Ben has in that box that he took out of the motel vent and put in his suitcase. And lastly, Locke is there for when Ben wakes up. Ben will come up with a story and lead Locke along on some new thing.... Crap. When the hell is Locke going to wake up and realize that people use him. That's all anybody does to him... except Helen, maybe. When might he guess that the Others are probably using him too?
duey Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Jack took the side that he would kill Baby Hitler. Juliet, Sawyer & Kate would let him live. And regardless, "Whatever Happened Happened." Jack didn't perform surgery, but what if he got it backwards? What if the island brought him there to do that in 1977, he didn't then and so he has to in 2004? So much for Sawyer being the 'only one with a plan' even tho he's winging it even more than the Losties ever did under Jack. And like I said, Jack isn't going to take this for long. Dude...dead on, but take it a bit further. What if the island brought Jack back to save little Ben, because by doing so may have kept him from going to the others? Great episode...yeah, the Miles/Hugo discussion was another classic scene. And I agree with your feelings on Ben/Locke...John is so friggin' gullible and able to be swayed.
DrDawkinstein Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 something else to note, Richard mentions that Charles and Ellie won't like what he is going to do with Ben. That means they are both still on the island in 1977. They both have children that were supposedly born before 1977 (Faraday and Penny). So were both Faraday and Penny BORN on the island?
extrahammer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 For Sawyer to be in control and to be so confident, it seems to me he's starting to screw things up. Not to mention he seems to be the leader amongst certain people, but when Horace comes around it seems as if he backs down. I go back to the reason a lot of people think Jack is too controlling, but I think that deters from people always looking to him for answers. He constantly gets thrown in the leadership role and for once he turns it down and Kate and Juliet are upset at him. Here we are a little past halfway through season 5 and I still have no theory on who's the good guy and who's the bad guy, not to mention no theory on what the assumed war will entail. I love this show! There's an episode coming up titled "Some like it HOTH". Is there a Star Wars relation from the Empire Strikes Back?
Sherman Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 I'm home from work and in front of the TV watching an old Lost episode. It is the episode called Catch-22. It is the episode that Desmond saves Charlie from an arrow and they find Naomi, the girl who parachuted onto the island. The flashbacks are of Desmond and his time in the monastary. On the desk of the monk who fires Desmond is a picture of that Monk and Eloise Hawking! The monk then offers him a free ride to town if he can help someone. That someone is Penny and that is how they meet. Was this monk making sure that these two met? Was he correcting the course of time? Does Desmond play a larger role than we think? So many more questions.
Ramius Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 I thought the entire "Little Ben will forget everything that happened" was kind of a cop out by the writers.
The Jokeman Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 I'm home from work and in front of the TV watching an old Lost episode. It is the episode called Catch-22. It is the episode that Desmond saves Charlie from an arrow and they find Naomi, the girl who parachuted onto the island. The flashbacks are of Desmond and his time in the monastary. On the desk of the monk who fires Desmond is a picture of that Monk and Eloise Hawking! The monk then offers him a free ride to town if he can help someone. That someone is Penny and that is how they meet. Was this monk making sure that these two met? Was he correcting the course of time? Does Desmond play a larger role than we think? So many more questions. Eloise told Desmond earlier this season that the island wasn't done with him yet so am sure he'll be back to make another appearance. I thought the entire "Little Ben will forget everything that happened" was kind of a cop out by the writers. I think that was just the writers poking fun at the audience as am sure this debate has gone on on other boards etc. Almost like last year when they had Hurley etc. playing Risk.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 I LOVE BEN EPISODES! (caps intended) Tonight looks good.
UConn James Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 Preview ad copy: LOST 5.12 "Dead Is Dead" - (Ben-centric). To atone for sins of the past, Ben must attempt to summon the smoke monster in order to be judged. Hazed, Ben episodes are the business! "The Man Behind the Curtain" and "The Shape of Things to Come" among them. And if Ben is being judged for his actions... I think we finally get to see what happened at the marina. A pretty good link with questions to be thinking about. I think it’s fairly irrefutable there are two separate entities running around looking like Jack Shephard’s father. One’s in a blue suit and is largely silent; one’s in brown clothing and is quite the chatty Cathy. Exactly why Christian’s body was not in his coffin has still to be explained. Ohh! That totally makes sense now that I read it. I would think this (as well as Locke's re-incarnation) has something to do with the Orchid "Dr. Marvin Candle" video with the duplicating bunnies. No replay scheduled for tonight or next week.
Cugalabanza Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 A pretty good link with questions to be thinking about. I think it’s fairly irrefutable there are two separate entities running around looking like Jack Shephard’s father. One’s in a blue suit and is largely silent; one’s in brown clothing and is quite the chatty Cathy. Exactly why Christian’s body was not in his coffin has still to be explained. Yeeesh! Let me say first that I am a huge fan of this show. But I do have to laugh sometimes at the levels of confusion. You have all this supernatural stuff, all the unanswered questions, "what the island wants," dead people walking around, etc... then you add time travel. And now… doppelgangers! I can't wait to see what's next.
DrDawkinstein Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 So what does everyone think happened to Rose and Bernard? they as good as dead? are they going to end up being "Adam & Eve"?
cåblelady Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 So what does everyone think happened to Rose and Bernard? they as good as dead? are they going to end up being "Adam & Eve"? I think ur right.
DrFishfinder Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 Yeeesh! Let me say first that I am a huge fan of this show. But I do have to laugh sometimes at the levels of confusion. You have all this supernatural stuff, all the unanswered questions, "what the island wants," dead people walking around, etc... then you add time travel. And now… doppelgangers! I can't wait to see what's next. dopplegangstas?
DrDawkinstein Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 such a great episode!! is "the monster" jacob?!?!?
Hazed and Amuzed Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 such a great episode!! is "the monster" jacob?!?!? The "Holy Ghost" of Jacob is my guess.
UConn James Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Come to find that Ben did not kill Penny, tho he tried. I suppose there is some shred of morality in Ben after all; but again we see a connection with him and Sawyer's ways --- e.g. how Sawyer backed out of the con when the kid entered the room. Awesome gets re: the overthrow of Charles in favor of Ben. Penny was born off-island so her mother doesn't seem to be Eloise Hawking... also, they probably would have said it if she were the mother of Widmore's children (it was plural, yes?). Was Des hit? Ilana and her group get guns and say they're in charge now. Presumably, they came from the large crate on the beach? Then, what was that she asked Lapidus? "What lies at the foot of the statue?" Kind of Dharma-esque, no? Yet to see if they are Dharma or more Widmore people. My hunch is Widmore --- when Ben called him it lights a fire, he sees EH and gets the flight info, and gets Sayid (and have they explained exactly how Hurley got out of the pokey and onto the plane?). Really thought the Ceasar character would have a bigger part (he may yet still) as that actor does have a decent resume. But on to the meat of the ep. --- Ben's judgment. Our first delve into the Temple, but we get the bowels of the outer wall rather than the Temple-proper. Just awesome. We'll all be waiting for the screenshots of the support columns' hieroglyphics. Remember that the outside walls made mention of "lift[ing it] up" having to do with Time. When it got to the holes in the floor, I was thinking Indiana Jones and that Ben would have to choose one... turns out to be a grate for the monster to pass through... so, we still do not know where specifically it originates from. And I just don't see how Ben pulling the plug on the drain calls it. Again, we'll be waiting on theories for that. Remember, too, that it was the DI that built "New Otherton" at the spot of the door, so that was not under the Others' control until the Purge. Starting a new graph here to separate things, but still on the judgment. It's like Ben wanted to be found 'guilty' b/c that means he was wrong to have saved Alex, and that Widmore's overthrow was less than legitimate. Now we get back to the shock that Ben had at Alex's execution and why he was so shaken by it --- not only did he lose his 'daughter' but he got some first proof that he was wrong, his reign is now finally over and he must follow Locke. Maybe some of the lying and conniving will stop (doubt it). The king is dead, long live the king.... in a sense, and more senses than one. All the while, Locke seemed to know generally what was going to happen. It was just in the tone of his responses to Ben. Nice line from Locke saying, 'How's it feel to be the running idiot, now?' So, Locke is finally in charge, circa 2007. Any other thoughts? I really need to see this again and my computer is a dinosar sh--box so I can't do the ABC player.
Cugalabanza Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Was Des hit? No. It appears that his groceries somehow took the bullet for him. Lucky for Desmond that was the bag with the chunky soup cans in it and not the one with the chips and bread. Really great episode. They gave us a lot in this one.
extrahammer Posted April 9, 2009 Author Posted April 9, 2009 UConn James - I love reading your analysis each week. Do you blog about the show at all? Ben episodes are usually good and this "Dead is Dead" was no exception. I really liked how the episodes have picked up with intensity since "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham". I just don't see Ben giving up so easy on his control. He has proven since the 2nd season to be a master manipulator. And really before that considering he helped The Others wipe out the DI. Why does Widmore want to get back to the island so much? Obviously Ben got back so is it safe to say the island wants Ben back but not Charles? And the question still remains, what is the Oceanic 6's purpose for going back?
UConn James Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 No. It appears that his groceries somehow took the bullet for him. Lucky for Desmond that was the bag with the chunky soup cans in it and not the one with the chips and bread. Really great episode. They gave us a lot in this one. So, I think it would be safe to say that per EH's "the island isn't done with you yet" means they will be back. I don't think it was meant as 'Ben's going to follow you out of here'. Something much bigger in the works for Des. His abilities are going to be key. Five episodes left in this season. A retrospective is set for 22 April. The finale is a two-hour deal on 13 May (counts as two episodes) and is titled "The Incident." Looking to me like Faraday's stealing into the Orchid's construction zone is "The Incident" and what happens following the season-opening scene is basically going to be the last part of the finale. I dunno if I would call it disappointing, but the repetition of this theme is (vis-a-vis how S4 began with the flash-forward scene of Jack&Kate at the airport with the shouted "We have to go back!" and a ways into the finale, it picks up where this scene left off and Kate reverses her car...). Just figured they'd do something totally different. But maybe it will be, maybe by the time we get there, I won't care about the repetition. Man, I was watching a S3 ep in syndication a while back and it's amazing how far we've come since that time. And even so, people have the stones to complain it goes too slowly and the level of interconnections. As in one of the frequent literary references in this series, LOST is a lot like a Charles Dickens novel, each episode a chapter, each character intertwining more as the story goes on, and how his novels were originally serialized in newspapers over a significant time period. The story goes that for one of his apparently most popular stories, people crowded at a trans-Atlantic pier and shouted up to ask those fresh from London what happened at the end, b/c the final serialization hadn't reached America yet.
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