Ramius Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 someone linked the official rules last night. you mention 2 qbs. there is special verbiage in the rule which talks about specific positions (QB obviously being the biggest one). youre right, if any of those hits happened to a QB in the pocket, there would be fines, and rightfully so. but when you are simply a "ball carrier" in the open field, there isnt much in the rules protecting you. You cannot lead with thr crown of your helmet, no matter the position on the field. Clark and Sweed should both be fined, if not suspended for 2 illegal hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picnic Table F'er Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 McGahee was almost decapitated by a Steeler pointing his helmet towards McGahee's head, yet no flag. Sims gave the hit his approval. I dunno about the rest, but that was a legal hit. NFL is a tough game, hard hits happen. Perhaps you should think about watching basketball instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I dunno about the rest, but that was a legal hit. NFL is a tough game, hard hits happen. Perhaps you should think about watching basketball instead? You might want to read the rule: using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts)or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass, a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass, a runner already in the grasp of a tackler, a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air, or a player on the ground at the end of a play). All players in virtually defenseless postures are protected by the same prohibitions against use of the helmet and facemask that are described in the roughing-the-passer rules (see Article 11, subsection 3 below of this Rule 12, Section 2); Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 someone linked the official rules last night. you mention 2 qbs. there is special verbiage in the rule which talks about specific positions (QB obviously being the biggest one). youre right, if any of those hits happened to a QB in the pocket, there would be fines, and rightfully so. but when you are simply a "ball carrier" in the open field, there isnt much in the rules protecting you. This is the rule: using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts)or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass, a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass, a runner already in the grasp of a tackler, a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air, or a player on the ground at the end of a play). All players in virtually defenseless postures are protected by the same prohibitions against use of the helmet and facemask that are described in the roughing-the-passer rules (see Article 11, subsection 3 below of this Rule 12, Section 2); Although there is special verbiage regarding QBs, it does make illegal using the helmet to spear, ram etc. any player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Pete.... using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts)or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass, a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass, a runner already in the grasp of a tackler, a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air, or a player on the ground at the end of a play). All players in virtually defenseless postures are protected by the same prohibitions against use of the helmet and facemask that are described in the roughing-the-passer rules (see Article 11, subsection 3 below of this Rule 12, Section 2); do you see how they qualify it with that? "violently or unnecessarily" the rule doesnt mean that you cant tackle face first AT ALL. that is actually how you are SUPPOSED to tackle. face up, see what you tackle. what that rule is referring to, is the unnecessary spearing, much like what Dawkins does. they purposely give that wiggle room or else there would be flags and fines on over half of the plays. there is a fine line between clean and cheap. everyone should be able to agree on that. i think that too many people are quick to jump on the cheap side and not realize that not every tackle can go exactly how the defender would like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Pete.... do you see how they qualify it with that? "violently or unnecessarily" the rule doesnt mean that you cant tackle face first AT ALL. that is actually how you are SUPPOSED to tackle. face up, see what you tackle. what that rule is referring to, is the unnecessary spearing, much like what Dawkins does. they purposely give that wiggle room or else there would be flags and fines on over half of the plays. there is a fine line between clean and cheap. everyone should be able to agree on that. i think that too many people are quick to jump on the cheap side and not realize that not every tackle can go exactly how the defender would like. I agree to a point. When I played football, I was taught to keep my head up. Once you put your head down, you are not only spearing your opponent, you are risking catastrophic injury to yourself. Last night, the guy had his head down. In my view, the hit last night was both violent and unnecessary. All he had to do was keep his head up. Look at the video at about 50-55 second in: Clip of hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I agree to a point. When I played football, I was taught to keep my head up. Once you put your head down, you are not only spearing your opponent, you are risking catastrophic injury to yourself. Last night, the guy had his head down. In my view, the hit last night was both violent and unnecessary. All he had to do was keep his head up. Look at the video at about 50-55 second in: Clip of hit i will not dispute that his face was down. i went back last night right after the play and it was the first thing i looked for on DVR. but dropping your face too early on a tackle is different than flying in with your helmet late. even if he kept his face up, McGahee would still be injured, the tackler would just have not been shaken up on the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 btw, we did this same string of arguing when that safety from the Jets knocked out the Cards WR (cant remember if it was Boldin or Fitz) that was another unintentional hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 I agree to a point. When I played football, I was taught to keep my head up. Once you put your head down, you are not only spearing your opponent, you are risking catastrophic injury to yourself. Last night, the guy had his head down. In my view, the hit last night was both violent and unnecessary. All he had to do was keep his head up. Look at the video at about 50-55 second in: Clip of hit I like how Sims said Clark uses his shoulder first. Whatever you say Phil the shill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I like how Sims said Clark uses his shoulder first. Whatever you say Phil the shill. what clip are you watching? after reviewing the clip, it is obvious that he was not trying to form tackle, rather he was trying to do the Schulz "flying shoulder" and unfortunately, Willis tried lowering his shoulder too. and they collided helmets. he leads with his right shoulder. it looks like Clark was attempting to blast willis in the chest with a solid shoulder, but McGahee dips down to get lower. i dont think you can "blame" anyone for this hit since im pretty sure neither of them meant for it to go like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 btw, we did this same string of arguing when that safety from the Jets knocked out the Cards WR (cant remember if it was Boldin or Fitz) that was another unintentional hit That looked like an illegal and intentional helmet first hit also. It's becoming the norm in the league and needs to be dealt with before there's a death. You don't think these players can help it? They want to separate the ball from the receiver by all means possible and will continue to aim for the head because there are no ramifications for doing so. It's a rule that's not being enforced when the player being hit is a receiver. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz9eZM_FcoQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 what clip are you watching? after reviewing the clip, it is obvious that he was not trying to form tackle, rather he was trying to do the Schulz "flying shoulder" and unfortunately, Willis tried lowering his shoulder too. and they collided helmets. he leads with his right shoulder. it looks like Clark was attempting to blast willis in the chest with a solid shoulder, but McGahee dips down to get lower. i dont think you can "blame" anyone for this hit since im pretty sure neither of them meant for it to go like that. Not to belabor the point, I recall that whenever Eric Lindros would get caught with his stick or elbow in some guys face, he always would claim that it was not intentional. I always believed that a guy that talented knew exactly where his stick was and to the extent that he was careless, he was intentionally so. In my view, the guy put his head down prior to impact. It was the wrong thing to do. By the way, I also saw Bart Scott of the Ravens do something similar earlier in the game. It is just stupid for these guys to risk a catastrophic injury to themselves and their opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 what clip are you watching? after reviewing the clip, it is obvious that he was not trying to form tackle, rather he was trying to do the Schulz "flying shoulder" and unfortunately, Willis tried lowering his shoulder too. and they collided helmets. he leads with his right shoulder. it looks like Clark was attempting to blast willis in the chest with a solid shoulder, but McGahee dips down to get lower. i dont think you can "blame" anyone for this hit since im pretty sure neither of them meant for it to go like that. At 53 seconds in it looks like Clark is trying to split McGahee's head open with his helmet. You're supposed to tackle with your head up, hit with your pads and wrap (not tuck) your arms. These guys know what they're doing and put trying to force a fumble higher on the priority list than the health of a fellow NFL football player. Just because the league condones this dangerous technique by turning a blind eye to it doesn't make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 legal hit and a good one. stop whining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 legal hit and a good one. stop whining Ask Nick Buoniconti's son Marc what he now thinks about the time that he used his helmet to make a tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 legal hit and a good one. stop whining Do you read tough guy? The rule has been posted here a few times and it clearly was NOT a legal hit. While Darryl Stingley never said that Tatum's hit was dirty, NFL players, coaches and fans knew differently. You don't have to try to decapitate a defenseless player to prove you're tough. If you can't play by the rules you shouldn't be in the league. Oh wait, the league apparently endorses it...never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I like being tough by defending unnecessary violence brought against others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I like how Sims said Clark uses his shoulder first. Whatever you say Phil the shill. Simms was right...it's pretty obvious that he led with his shoulder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavarreFL_Bills_Fan Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Its funny how these deadly hits are never mentioned, yet people are up in arms when someone gets cut or knocked out in the UFC. Fact of the matter is, the NFL is a dangerous sport. The helmet and facemask only add to the ferocity. In all fairness, the the Steelers safety played the way he was probably taught, and the way many people like to watch others play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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