Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 GRUDEN... I find it interesting how people are screaming to fire DJ because of his losing record and talking Gruden up like a savior, yet Gruden's only good season was his first year in TB when he won the SB with DUNGYS team. In fact, when he went 9-7 this year it was his FIRST back to back winning seasons in his 7 years in TB. Going into December TB was in first place but collapsed and lost 4 key games to miss the playoffs, even losing to the lowly Raiders... Sound familiar? Kind of like DJ this year? Yet, he is your savior and DJ is the worst in the NFL in your eyes...Truth is, if Gruden was in Buffalo all the posters on the board would have been screaming to fire him too just like a lot of Bucs fans on the Bucs boards lately... Just find it ironic we want to fire a guy and replace him with a guy who hasnt done much more than the guy we want to replace and who's career are not much different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 GRUDEN... I find it interesting how people are screaming to fire DJ because of his losing record and talking Gruden up like a savior, yet Gruden's only good season was his first year in TB when he won the SB with DUNGYS team. In fact, when he went 9-7 this year it was his FIRST back to back winning seasons in his 7 years in TB. Going into December TB was in first place but collapsed and lost 4 key games to miss the playoffs, even losing to the lowly Raiders... Sound familiar? Kind of like DJ this year? Yet, he is your savior and DJ is the worst in the NFL in your eyes...Truth is, if Gruden was in Buffalo all the posters on the board would have been screaming to fire him too just like a lot of Bucs fans on the Bucs boards lately... Just find it ironic we want to fire a guy and replace him with a guy who hasnt done much more than the guy we want to replace and who's career are not much different... Wow .... quite a post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Wow .... quite a post In other news, there is no difference between DJ and Bill Belichick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasin's BILLS Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Hey Alph why are you starting a Gruden Topic? Just giving you a hard time. But interesting statistics, for a team that was the original 0 for team, before the Detroit Lions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Hey Alph why are you starting a Gruden Topic? Just giving you a hard time. But interesting statistics, for a team that was the original 0 for team, before the Detroit Lions. Lol... Also, why does everyone credit Gruden for making TB relevant when they have been pretty non relevant in 6 of his 7 years there? TB became a good team several years BEFORE Gruden got there and was a SB contender the previous 2 or 3 years before they brought Gruden. That turn around from doormat to contender was built by Dungy, and Gruden won a SB in his first year with Dungy's team and has a losing record ever since...including the year after he won the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 GRUDEN... I find it interesting how people are screaming to fire DJ because of his losing record and talking Gruden up like a savior, yet Gruden's only good season was his first year in TB when he won the SB with DUNGYS team. In fact, when he went 9-7 this year it was his FIRST back to back winning seasons in his 7 years in TB. Going into December TB was in first place but collapsed and lost 4 key games to miss the playoffs, even losing to the lowly Raiders... Sound familiar? Kind of like DJ this year? Yet, he is your savior and DJ is the worst in the NFL in your eyes...Truth is, if Gruden was in Buffalo all the posters on the board would have been screaming to fire him too just like a lot of Bucs fans on the Bucs boards lately... Just find it ironic we want to fire a guy and replace him with a guy who hasnt done much more than the guy we want to replace and who's career are not much different... Way to twist crap to make Your point... The fact is Gruden had 4 Winning Seasons in 7 Years with The Bucs , 3 NFC South Titles, and a Super Bowl Win...In his 11 Years as a Head Coach He has 6 Winning Seasons (He finished 8-8 twice with the Raiders) and He's 1-0 in the SB...His Career record as a HC is 95-81...The crap about winning with Dungy's Players is laughable...He did it...He Won the freaking SB...He did what Dungy could not do with the same Team...He's a damn good HC... Do you want to compare those numbers with Jaurons just for fun? I didn't think so... I'm not saying Gruden is Lombardi reincarnated, but if You can't recognize the fact that Gruden is a FAR superior HC to Ol' Dead Dick...Than NFL Football is CLEARLY not your thing... I'll take Gruden any day...ANY day over that loser we have now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 In other news, there is no difference between DJ and Bill Belichick. Maybe not .... maybe the difference is the front office and the roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 How about some context instead of just tossing around overall records. 2002: Tampa traded 4 picks to Oakland for Gruden. The go 12-4 and win a Super Bowl. 2003: Rich McKay gets dumped mid-season (How'd he do in Atlanta, btw? How'd that Bobby Petrino thing work out?) and Keyshawn Johnson pulls a "TO" and gets inactivated most of the year. A Dick Jauron 7-9 season. 2004: Another year with no top draft picks and new GM Allen "blows it up", cutting Lynch and Sapp. 5-11. 2005: Cadillac Williams added and Chris Simms starts to develop. 11-5 and playoffs. 2006: Lose Simms, Williams, Clayton, Rice, Kelly, Buenning and have a bunch of rookies on the OL and at QB. Limp to a 4-12 disappointment. 2007: Rebound with Jeff Garcia and a host of free agent moves to win the South again at 9-7. 2008: In first place in the div at 9-3, when the Carolina Panthers steam rolled the Tampa-2 defense into oblivion with their ground game. Bucs defense falls apart in December and they miss the playoffs at 9-7. So that's 4 winning seasons out of 7. 03 and 04 were transition years as the old regime left and Allen and Gruden tried to rebuild without their top draft picks. 06 was a major setback as both Williams and Simms essentially vanished from the future of the franchise due to injury. Gruden was able to wring some extra mileage out of Jeff Garcia last year and Antonio Bryant this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 In other news, there is no difference between DJ and Bill Belichick. Maybe not .... maybe the difference is the front office and the roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Gruden: 45 wins over 6 seasons = 7.5 wins per season Jauron: 21 wins over 3 seasons = 7 wins per season I'm just saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Gruden: 45 wins over 6 seasons = 7.5 wins per seasonJauron: 21 wins over 3 seasons = 7 wins per season I'm just saying.... Since people like to throw out Jauron's record before Buffalo, one could just as easily toss out the 06 season and say Gruden averaged 9.7 wins a season over 3 of the last 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 How about some context instead of just tossing around overall records. 2002: Tampa traded 4 picks to Oakland for Gruden. The go 12-4 and win a Super Bowl. 2003: Rich McKay gets dumped mid-season (How'd he do in Atlanta, btw? How'd that Bobby Petrino thing work out?) and Keyshawn Johnson pulls a "TO" and gets inactivated most of the year. A Dick Jauron 7-9 season. 2004: Another year with no top draft picks and new GM Allen "blows it up", cutting Lynch and Sapp. 5-11. 2005: Cadillac Williams added and Chris Simms starts to develop. 11-5 and playoffs. 2006: Lose Simms, Williams, Clayton, Rice, Kelly, Buenning and have a bunch of rookies on the OL and at QB. Limp to a 4-12 disappointment. 2007: Rebound with Jeff Garcia and a host of free agent moves to win the South again at 9-7. 2008: In first place in the div at 9-3, when the Carolina Panthers steam rolled the Tampa-2 defense into oblivion with their ground game. Bucs defense falls apart in December and they miss the playoffs at 9-7. So that's 4 winning seasons out of 7. 03 and 04 were transition years as the old regime left and Allen and Gruden tried to rebuild without their top draft picks. 06 was a major setback as both Williams and Simms essentially vanished from the future of the franchise due to injury. Gruden was able to wring some extra mileage out of Jeff Garcia last year and Antonio Bryant this year. Funny, Gruden seem to get a pass on his horrid seasons because injuries and lack of personnel...Yet you crucify DJ (who managed to put up better records that Grudens so called off years because of personnel reasons) who had WAY more injuries in 07, played in a tougher division and still pulled off a 7-9 record when at one point our starting safety was our previously cut 5th string WR and we had starters at skill positions that would struggle to start in the CFL. What happened to DJ this year...well he was in the running for coach of the year with a 6-2 start that got him a 3 year extension until Trent Edwards suddenly couldnt pass anymore, couldnt find open WR's and looked like a scared dog...it also saw the loss of our ONLY pass rush in Schobel, two CB's who were playing great in Youboty and Greer, injuries to Reed (which was a big impact on the O) and injuries to the O-line... 2 years in a row, we were hit REAL hard at critical positions, including QB, with injuries, and he manages a 7-9 record both years. And what QB was hurt? A guy who was a ROOKIE last year and barely a 2nd year player this year as he only played about half the year. But, its all DJ's fault that a guy who plays our QB (Trent) cant stay on the field, and when he was back this year he severely regressed and often looked timid. Not to mention, when he wasnt in there, the guy filling in was JP who stunk it up... So, if you are going to make excuses for Gruden on those "off years" then you gotta do the same for DJ, otherwise, dont bring em up... By the way, DJ has a Coach of Year award for going 13-3 with marginal talent, was in the running for coach of the year this year at the mid way point until Trent and injuries decimated us, and in 2007 his coaching job was viewed as one of his best ever for scraping out a 7-9 record where 2 fluke FG's (Denver and Dallas) kept us from going 9-7...oh yeah, and he dealt with Everett situation... just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Since people like to throw out Jauron's record before Buffalo, one could just as easily toss out the 06 season and say Gruden averaged 9.7 wins a season over 3 of the last 4 years. If you want to throw out the 06 season then that makes Jaurons record 14-18 with the Bills. An average of 7-9. As opposed to his 3 year record of 21-27. An average of 7-9 Keep chasing that dragon and someday Jauron will finish 8-8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 If you want to throw out the 06 season then that makes Jaurons record 14-18 with the Bills. An average of 7-9.As opposed to his 3 year record of 21-27. An average of 7-9 Keep chasing that dragon and someday Jauron will finish 8-8 Well, you have to admit Dick is consistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...81300&st=30 For someone who admits to not caring for DJ, you're surely going to extremes to point out how he's "equal" to another well-known SB champion coach in Gruden. As I said before, I can neither confirm nor deny your contacts. But it's clear your agenda is to indicate that DJ isn't bad, while avoiding the prospect of coming out and saying it. When Brett Favre practically laughs at the play-call to roll out Losman, it's an indication that most people think DJ is a joke of a HC. And marginalizing Gruden to legitimize DJ is outright laughable. Nice try. And Bravo. As screwed up as a footall bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Well, you have to admit Dick is consistant. True But Dick is supposed to be hard or soft. He has already proven that he's not hard Therefore Dick is consistantly soft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 If you want to throw out the 06 season then that makes Jaurons record 14-18 with the Bills. An average of 7-9.As opposed to his 3 year record of 21-27. An average of 7-9 Keep chasing that dragon and someday Jauron will finish 8-8 I hear ya. I hear ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Funny, Gruden seem to get a pass on his horrid seasons because injuries and lack of personnel...Yet you crucify DJ (who managed to put up better records that Grudens so called off years because of personnel reasons) who had WAY more injuries in 07, played in a tougher division and still pulled off a 7-9 record when at one point our starting safety was our previously cut 5th string WR and we had starters at skill positions that would struggle to start in the CFL. What happened to DJ this year...well he was in the running for coach of the year with a 6-2 start that got him a 3 year extension until Trent Edwards suddenly couldnt pass anymore, couldnt find open WR's and looked like a scared dog...it also saw the loss of our ONLY pass rush in Schobel, two CB's who were playing great in Youboty and Greer, injuries to Reed (which was a big impact on the O) and injuries to the O-line... 2 years in a row, we were hit REAL hard at critical positions, including QB, with injuries, and he manages a 7-9 record both years. And what QB was hurt? A guy who was a ROOKIE last year and barely a 2nd year player this year as he only played about half the year. But, its all DJ's fault that a guy who plays our QB (Trent) cant stay on the field, and when he was back this year he severely regressed and often looked timid. Not to mention, when he wasnt in there, the guy filling in was JP who stunk it up... So, if you are going to make excuses for Gruden on those "off years" then you gotta do the same for DJ, otherwise, dont bring em up... By the way, DJ has a Coach of Year award for going 13-3 with marginal talent, was in the running for coach of the year this year at the mid way point until Trent and injuries decimated us, and in 2007 his coaching job was viewed as one of his best ever for scraping out a 7-9 record where 2 fluke FG's (Denver and Dallas) kept us from going 9-7...oh yeah, and he dealt with Everett situation... just saying... DJ is sure racking up a lot of those "almost coach of the year" awards in your opinion. You are correct that I don't hand out free passes for a bunch of injured backups to a guy that posts 1 winning season in 8. You see, the weighting is the 7 losing seasons, not the "in the running for coach of the year" fourberie. Meanwhile, Gruden has had 3 losing seasons in 11 and owns a Super Bowl ring. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GrudJo0.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...81300&st=30 For someone who admits to not caring for DJ, you're surely going to extremes to point out how he's "equal" to another well-known SB champion coach in Gruden. As I said before, I can neither confirm nor deny your contacts. But it's clear your agenda is to indicate that DJ isn't bad, while avoiding the prospect of coming out and saying it. When Brett Favre practically laughs at the play-call to roll out Losman, it's an indication that most people think DJ is a joke of a HC. And marginalizing Gruden to legitimize DJ is outright laughable. Nice try. And Bravo. As screwed up as a footall bat. I have stated I prefer to replace DJ, but I also stated he is not our biggest problem and I think we can win with him. My post here was merely to show that not all is what it seems...one, having DJ again isnt as catastrophic as some fans on here post, he is still viewed in better regard than most Bills fans see him (I could care less if you choose not to accept that, but regardless of your personal "belief" on the matter, it is a fact...funny thing is its even been mentioned on ESPN a few times in discussions about Ralph keeping DJ). Two, the so called savior everyone is clamoring over, Gruden, has not done much better than DJ has and his only claim to fame was winning with Dungys team. Truth is, Gruden has never developed a QB, mismanaged his QB's on top of that as bad as we handled ours, has had only back to back winning seasons once in his 7 years in TB which was this year and last year (missed the playoffs this year with that barely winning record by the way), has a losing record over the last 6 years, has run TB's best players out of town, had terrible drafts, made many questionable in game decisions and presonnel decisions, and his only real CLAIM to fame is the fact that people like him because of the Chucky stuff from Oakland and his intensity. But truth is, all he accomplished as a coach was win a SB with a team that was builit by Dungy and FAVORED to win the super bowl BEFORE he took over the team. Then, the Oakland team he couldnt get to the Super Bowl makes the Super Bowl the first year he is out of Oakland... This is the guy everyone is clamoring over...yes, I like the intensity he shows, but I am not impressed with his coaching body of work...he is nothing more than a Name that was inflated because of succes he had in a single season with a SB Favorite someone else built. I would like someone to name one positive thing he has done for TB since that SB victory 7 years ago...just one...even Tampa Fans tired of this guy... Is he the worst coach I have seen, no...but truth is, he is not as good as fans here want to believe he is, just as DJ is not as bad as Bills fans want to say he is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Maybe not .... maybe the difference is the front office and the roster Yes, yes, I sense great truth here. This man does not claim to know all, yet still has great wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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