firstngoal Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/0...of-the-tampa-2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Was this guy a safety for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Was this guy a safety for us? That looks like him...and guess what he's at home watching the same 4 defenses as well. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Was this guy a safety for us? We had a Matt Bowen, don't know if it's the same guy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Quint Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 "no undersized linebackers dropping to a spot and no safeties playing close to 20 yards off the line of scrimmage. No rushing the passer with your front four on third downs and playing coverage behind it, and no middle linebacker running down the middle of the field trying to keep up with a slot receiver who runs a 4.3 in the 40." Wow...The story of the last 4 years of Bills defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie do-right Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 what a great article - and yes he was a safety for us http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5227 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I can't imagine that there's anyone who loves the defensive scheme the Bills run. It has to be the most boring defense I've ever seen. And Bowen's point about a QB like Warner picking it apart was spot on. See also Brady's performances vs. the Bills last year. A team that doesn't make getting pressure on the QB a priority is a team that's going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I can't imagine that there's anyone who loves the defensive scheme the Bills run. It has to be the most boring defense I've ever seen. And Bowen's point about a QB like Warner picking it apart was spot on. See also Brady's performances vs. the Bills last year. A team that doesn't make getting pressure on the QB a priority is a team that's going nowhere. It's a very effective scheme...IF you can pressure the QB. Our only hope of doing so in 2008 rested on Schobel's tiny white shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 It's a very effective scheme...IF you can pressure the QB. Our only hope of doing so in 2008 rested on Schobel's tiny white shoulders. I was beyond frustrated as I sat and watched the team stick to their scheme and fail to generate any pressure on Warner in that Arizona game. Yes, the lack of any kind of decent play from the DEs hurt bigtime and would limit what you can do in any scheme, but many many offenses are built around the short passing game, which the Bills are only too happy to concede. Do what you have to do to bring pressure and let the chips fall where they may. I'd rather be beaten on a 4-play drive than a 12-play drive. So while I don't think the results would be all that different in terms of W-L, I think it's much more exciting to watch a pressure defense. At least you get big plays one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode54 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think we have players that CAN make plays, the coaching staff just doesn't put them in the position to do so. I wish we had a different scheme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Everything is cyclical in pro sports, especially football. The Cover 2 developed in the 70s with Pittsburgh, and since then has been in and out of favor since then. Dungy's teams played it, but the big weakness is and always will be stopping the run. And it needs dominant players on the DL, at MLB, and S. Without that, it's tough to run a successful C2 defense. The major flaw I have with this defense is waiting for the offense to make a mistake. In the event a C2/T2 defense cannot force turnovers, it becomes problematic and susceptible to giving up big yardage. We've seen that the last few years with DJ's teams. Another shortcoming is relying on the front four to pressure the QB. LB's are dropping into short zones and aren't called on to blitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I can't imagine that there's anyone who loves the defensive scheme the Bills run. It has to be the most boring defense I've ever seen. Agreed. I don't think there is anyone on this board that loves our defense. One point I disagree with Bowen on: the three top defenses are all capable of getting pressure with four (as were the Giants last year), which makes bringing five or more unblockable. He ignores that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 It's a very effective scheme...IF you can pressure the QB. Our only hope of doing so in 2008 rested on Schobel's tiny white shoulders. Yes, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick love to see it and tear it to shreds. And, yes, it is the same Matt Bowen former S of the Bills and Redskins. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/author/matt-bowen/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Copying the successful teams is what got us into this mess to begin with. We cannot keep chasing the schemes of the teams that are successful. By the time we have the personnel and have the scheme down pat, the other teams will have already changed to next new thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Copying the successful teams is what got us into this mess to begin with. We cannot keep chasing the schemes of the teams that are successful. By the time we have the personnel and have the scheme down pat, the other teams will have already changed to next new thing. Did Jauron bring the scheme to Chicago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode54 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 just in, per rotoworld New Lions coach Jim Schwartz is not sure yet whether his defense will run a 4-3 or 3-4 alignment. Schwartz said he doesn't want his coordinators to be "scheme guys" because he wants flexibility from his coaches. Interestingly, there are no Tampa-2 defenses still alive in the playoffs, with the Steelers, Ravens, and Eagles all relying on pressure. The cyclical NFL may be moving away from the Tampa-2 just as Tony Dungy and Monte Kiffin exit the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 A few things from Bowen's report: 1. While he is correct about the cyclical nature of the NFL and the tenets of the Tampa 2, some of the best zone blitzes have been designed out of a One gap zone back front ala the T2. 2. Polamalu and Reed (Reed especially) at at times 30 Yards away from the line of scrimmage because - “Everybody has goals where they are, and defensively we always have a certain thing: bend but don’t break.” - Ray Lewis http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articl...cript_1217.aspx "We played bend-but-don't-break," said Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis, one of only two active Ravens to play in both games. "We have always got one philosophy on this defense. If they don't score, they don't win." -Ray Lewis, Comparing the current squad to the 2000 team http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...ns-follow_N.htm Size wise, three of the Steelers four linebackers are not what you would call considerably big. The Eagles have a good range, and the Cards and Ravens are about in the middle size wise. Don't forget we have a 240 pound Mike (poz) and a 250 pound Will (Mitchell). And prior to injury our Sam was 240 (Crowell). 3. While we do use the Tampa 2 as far as our defense goes, it's not nor ever has been the base defense any Tampa 2 Team. Have we used it at bad times? Of course. But if you look at any of our games, we've used (like any team, except maybe the Steelers or Ravens who would go Cover 4) a lot of cover three with a one-high safety, which for the outside coverage turns into man principles when in that sort of coverage. Additionally, we use the Creep, which to my knowledge the only teams I've ever seen use that had been the Ravens, Patriots and Giants in the first SuperBowl. That's a very aggressive formation that I feel has worked at times, and if anything needs to be used more. Oh, and look at the championship games this weekend. The Eagles will use a ton a zone, because if they don't they're blitzing against two-way gos with Breaston, Fitzgerald and Boldin. Same with the Steelers Ravens. I can almost guarantee you you will not see a ton of Bump and Run like you would with the Eagles or Giants, as both teams fake the press and then drop (oh no) to a 7-9 yard cushion to prevent the hot route off of a blitz. While the Tampa 2 may be phased out, one gap defenses will not go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Copying the successful teams is what got us into this mess to begin with. We cannot keep chasing the schemes of the teams that are successful. By the time we have the personnel and have the scheme down pat, the other teams will have already changed to next new thing. So, are you saying that picking the "what's new, what's cool" scheme du jour, gutting the team, and trying to find all the right pieces off the scrap heap and in the draft lottery may not be the most wise approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 A few things from Bowen's report: 1. While he is correct about the cyclical nature of the NFL and the tenets of the Tampa 2, some of the best zone blitzes have been designed out of a One gap zone back front ala the T2. 2. Polamalu and Reed (Reed especially) at at times 30 Yards away from the line of scrimmage because - “Everybody has goals where they are, and defensively we always have a certain thing: bend but don’t break.” - Ray Lewis http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articl...cript_1217.aspx "We played bend-but-don't-break," said Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis, one of only two active Ravens to play in both games. "We have always got one philosophy on this defense. If they don't score, they don't win." -Ray Lewis, Comparing the current squad to the 2000 team http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...ns-follow_N.htm Size wise, three of the Steelers four linebackers are not what you would call considerably big. The Eagles have a good range, and the Cards and Ravens are about in the middle size wise. Don't forget we have a 240 pound Mike (poz) and a 250 pound Will (Mitchell). And prior to injury our Sam was 240 (Crowell). 3. While we do use the Tampa 2 as far as our defense goes, it's not nor ever has been the base defense any Tampa 2 Team. Have we used it at bad times? Of course. But if you look at any of our games, we've used (like any team, except maybe the Steelers or Ravens who would go Cover 4) a lot of cover three with a one-high safety, which for the outside coverage turns into man principles when in that sort of coverage. Additionally, we use the Creep, which to my knowledge the only teams I've ever seen use that had been the Ravens, Patriots and Giants in the first SuperBowl. That's a very aggressive formation that I feel has worked at times, and if anything needs to be used more. Oh, and look at the championship games this weekend. The Eagles will use a ton a zone, because if they don't they're blitzing against two-way gos with Breaston, Fitzgerald and Boldin. Same with the Steelers Ravens. I can almost guarantee you you will not see a ton of Bump and Run like you would with the Eagles or Giants, as both teams fake the press and then drop (oh no) to a 7-9 yard cushion to prevent the hot route off of a blitz. While the Tampa 2 may be phased out, one gap defenses will not go away. ^^Post of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 It's a very effective scheme...IF you can pressure the QB. Our only hope of doing so in 2008 rested on Schobel's tiny white shoulders. The problem with the cover 2 is in order for it to be successfull it almost has to be a perfect storm so to speak. You need a dominant DE AKA Simeon Rice, you need a dominant DT that could disrupt & penetrate the backfield creating havoc AKA Warran Sapp, you need a versatile LB that could run sideline to sideline AKA Derreck Brooks & you need a dominant Safety that is fast enough to cover the wrs & big enough to come into the box & stop the run AKA Bob Sanders. These type of guys are extremely tough to find. It may have worked in Tampa, where you had Rice, Sapp, Mcfarland & Brooks on the D, but we just do not have that type of personal. Not many teams do. It is a bullsh*t defense & I wish they would scrap it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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