Jim in Anchorage Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 yeah awacs is a 707. Don't remember hearing about that crash I remember just after high school I worked for US Airways in Jamestown. We had 19 seater Beechcraft turboprops for our puddle jumpers, one night one hit a goose during a landing. Put a hole in the wing about the size of a football and took out an engine. Landed the plane with no incident, but I had to wait for the mechanics from DuBois PA to arrive before I could go home for the night...was a loooong night It was militarily,so there was not the press coverage you would see in a civilian crash[except here, of course] But I believe it was the first ever AWACS crash.
WVUFootball29 Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 It was militarily,so there was not the press coverage you would see in a civilian crash[except here, of course] But I believe it was the first ever AWACS crash. Only one I've heard mentioned before. 707's are pretty solid planes
UConn James Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Birds are a very real and frequent cause of engine damage/failure. It must have been a big flock to get sucked into both engines; that part is obviously very unusual. My father used to know a guy at Bradley Intl whose job was to shoot Canada geese. All friggin' day long. It was some time ago that the animal rights people started to raise a ruckus. Don't know if he's still there. But, hey PETA dumbfu--s! This situation is exactly why that was done. I hate Canada geese with a passion. Loud, nasty, and they sh-- everywhere.
Nanker Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 It's just a matter of time before PETA demands that the pilot of that plane be brought up on federal charges for the unlicensed, harvesting of federally protected migratory waterfowl. They won't rest until he and the airline pay a hefty fine, he serves hard jail time and the company agrees to implement an ongoing training program for all employees and new hires to undergo extensive Canada goose rights and sensitivity training. He should have crashed the plane into the FDR to avoid impacting the birds. Stupid pilot. He's cost his company billions. Humans should suffer. I think I'll go have a sea-kitten for dinner to celebrate.
WVUFootball29 Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I hate Canada geese with a passion. Loud, nasty, and they sh-- everywhere. Guess they'd be right at home in the Rockpile?
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Only one I've heard mentioned before. 707's are pretty solid planes Till they impact 10,000 acres of spruce. The scar were that plane went done is still visible. A take off,low altitude engine failure is the worst.
KD in CA Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Here's some fun reading on air strikes...especially if you are flying out of JFK. http://cartome.org/jfk-strike.htm Abstract The collision of birds with aircraft is a serious problem at John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFKIA), New York. Gulls (Larus spp.) accounted for 86% of bird strikes (an aircraft striking > 1 bird) from 1988-1990, averaging 260 strikes/year. Laughing Gulls (L. atricilla) are present from May-September in association with a protected nesting colony in Jamaica Bay National Wildlife Refuge adjacent to the airport. The colony increased from 15 nests in 1979 to 7,629 nests in 1990. During the 1970s and 1980s, JFKIA implemented various management activities to reduce gull strikes, including maintenance of tall grass, improved sanitation, drainage of standing water, and increased harassment. These programs, although beneficial as part of an integrated bird management program, did not result in reduced numbers of gull strikes. A specific program to reduce full strikes was undertaken from May-August 1991-1998 in which 2-5 people stationed on airport boundaries shot gulls flying over the airport. In 7,159 person-hours of shooting, 55,452 gulls were killed (2,262-14,866/year), comprised of 50,521 Laughing Gulls and 4,931 other gulls (L. argentatus, L. marinus, L. delawarensis). The number of aircraft striking gulls declined to a mean of 68.4/year in 1991-1995, a 74% reduction compared with the mean of 259.7 strikes/year for 1988-1990. As a result of the shooting program, the overall bird strike rate declined at JFKIA but the proportion of strikes caused by non-gull species increased, from 14% in 1988-1990 to 39% in 1991-1995. To further reduce strikes by gulls and other species and to minimize the need to shoot gulls, JFKIA implemented an experimental falconry program in 1996-1998. Falconry has provided positive publicity for JFKIA and additional personnel on the airport to disperse birds. However, a statistical analysis of strike data did not indicate falconry reduced the strike rate below the levels achieved during the shooting program in 1991-1995. In 1996-1998, when shooting and falconry were both active, the mean gull strike rate (57.3/year) was similar to the rate recorded in 1991-1995 (68.4/year). Strikes by non-gull species increased in 1996-1998 (=85.3/year) compared to 1991-1995 (43.0/year). Non-gulls comprised 60% of all bird strikes, 1996-1998. The number of gulls killed/person-hour of shooting was highest in 1991-1992, the first 2 years of the shooting program, but did not differ (P>0.05) among years from 1993-1998. JFKIA, located in a bird-rich coastal environment, has developed innovative programs to reduce strikes by various bird species whose dynamic populations present ever-changing challenges. A new component of these integrated programs should be the relocation of the nearby gull nesting colony to a site away from JFKIA. Yeah, setting up a bird preserve next door to JFK Airport probably wasn't the best idea they ever had.
WVUFootball29 Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Till they impact 10,000 acres of spruce. The scar were that plane went done is still visible. A take off,low altitude engine failure is the worst. Yes they are, nearly unrecoverable. a lot of skill and even more luck are the only way to survive those
Bullpen Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 On a lighter note, I just saw Patterson praising the "NY fairy's" for the rescues. that must be some city. I was going to say this is the post of the day Jim. Guess they'd be right at home in the Rockpile? Then I read this one. I'll PM you later WVU, wondering how things went out here. Now, the thing I'm wondering what is the over-under in days, on when the conspiracy theorists come out claiming this is something other than a bird strike. While I agree a bird strike on both engines is pretty bizarre, but if it was in fact a flock of geese, I can see that happening, some of those flocks are huge!
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Yes they are, nearly unrecoverable. a lot of skill and even more luck are the only way to survive those Dont put the plane in a steep bank. That was drilled into me over and over,but people die from it almost every day.Go to best glide speed and look at your options-which I think we saw today.
WVUFootball29 Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Dont put the plane in a steep bank. That was drilled into me over and over,but people die from it almost every day.Go to best glide speed and look at your options-which I think we saw today. Exactly. Its always drilled in, but sometimes people panic and pull the nose just a smidgen too far and right into a stall. This guy did one hell of a job, especially considering he never got over 182 knots
Hazed and Amuzed Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Hell of a "landing" by the pilot to bring it in without breaking up. Hell yeah...
Just Jack Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Musta been a helluva flight. From Mall Rats.... Brandi: Second suitor, would you ever make whoopie in public? Brodie: I already did once today. [clicks his finger at Renee] Brodie: But my cousin Walter jerked off in public once. True story. He was on a plane to New Mexico when all of the sudden the hydraulics went. The plane started spinning around, going out of control, so he decides it's all over and whips it out and starts beating it right there. So all the other passengers take a cue from him and they start whipping it out and beating like mad. So all the passengers are beating off, plummeting to their certain doom, when all of the sudden, snap! The hydraulics kick back in. The plane rights itself and it land safely and everyone puts their pieces or, whatever, you know, away and deboard. No one mentions the phenomenon to anyone else. Gil Hicks: [beat] Well, did he cum, or what? Brodie: Jesus *Christ*, man! There's just some things you don't talk about in public!
Just Jack Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Yeah, he definitely saved the day. I wonder if any video will surface. I'd say within a day or two we'll get pictures and/or video from inside the plane.
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I sort of wonder if George Bush will ever be given any credit for the excellence in all standards in place in the NYC area in this post 911 world for this wonderful rescue, but near tragedy. It's still good he's leaving because this way we won't see a war on Canadian geese.
Wacka Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Where is crayonz railing against the Canadian geese?
Guest dog14787 Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Exactly. Its always drilled in, but sometimes people panic and pull the nose just a smidgen too far and right into a stall. This guy did one hell of a job, especially considering he never got over 182 knots Everybody's gone surfing, surfing USA.
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Everybody's gone surfing, surfing USA. Why does your institution allow patients Internet access?
KD in CA Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Where is crayonz railing against the Canadian geese?
RkFast Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I heard one pilot onm the news speak to it last night and he really nailed it. Its about measurement of energy when flying. And that practice is honed a lot when teaching dogfighting, but every pilot knows about it. What this pilot did that was so great was not run through the trained procedures that every pilot knows (throttles off, fire bottles on, etc.) or even land it softly tail-first in the water. But correctly see his options for landing, measure how much energy (momentum) he still had available to him and based on his aircraft, its weight, etc, make the correct decision to land where he did. That was the really great, special thing he did, IMO.
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