Adam Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 I understand that motion and salinity can impact the freezing point of the river, but "much colder" than 20 degrees sounds pretty unlikely. Sounds good in the story though. it was 32 degrees kelvin
RkFast Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 That controller should be put on nighttime ground control duty...he just didn't get what was happening. Sully says that they're going in the Hudson and this guy is still giving him available runways at Newark...NEWARK! Sully told him he couldn't make Teterboro, which was just a few miles to the southwest, and this guy says ok, how about Newark?!?! What a dope. Controller: Sully and crew: He didnt "get" what was happenning becuase he had very limited info. He knew he had a damanged plane looking for a spot to land and he knew his altitiude and ground speed. Thats all. He didnt know how damaged the engines were, if they were still making thrust at all or anyhthing else. Oh...and despite this flight's emergency call, this controller was still responsible for all the other aircraft in his sector. ATC's job in that situation is to keep providing info to the pilots so that they can continue to weigh their options and make a decision. That controller did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do.
duey Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 He didnt "get" what was happenning becuase he had very limited info. He knew he had a damanged plane looking for a spot to land and he knew his altitiude and ground speed. Thats all. He didnt know how damaged the engines were, if they were still making thrust at all or anyhthing else. Oh...and despite this flight's emergency call, this controller was still responsible for all the other aircraft in his sector. ATC's job in that situation is to keep providing info to the pilots so that they can continue to weigh their options and make a decision. That controller did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do. So what part of "Both engines have lost thrust" and "We're going in the Hudson" consist of very limited info? He also had the position and altitude of the plane on his radar, and he was still talking Newark AFTER he lost radar contact. He didn't get it.
RkFast Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 So what part of "Both engines have lost thrust" and "We're going in the Hudson" consist of very limited info? He also had the position and altitude of the plane on his radar, and he was still talking Newark AFTER he lost radar contact. He didn't get it. "Lost thrust" and "no thrust" are two different things. Again....ATC's job is to keep relaying options to the aircraft so that the pilot could make a decision as to what to do. He might not have been able to make Tererboro becuase he might have had to make a tight turn that would have resulted in too much momentum loss...but if Newarks runways were more aligned with his flight path, would have been more feasible. ATC didnt know that. Didnt know a lot of things that affected what Sullenberger's real options were.
Stl Bills Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 it was 32 degrees kelvin 32 degrees Kelvin is -241 degrees Celsius.....thats f-in cold.
bills_fan Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 "Lost thrust" and "no thrust" are two different things. Again....ATC's job is to keep relaying options to the aircraft so that the pilot could make a decision as to what to do. He might not have been able to make Tererboro becuase he might have had to make a tight turn that would have resulted in too much momentum loss...but if Newarks runways were more aligned with his flight path, would have been more feasible. ATC didnt know that. Didnt know a lot of things that affected what Sullenberger's real options were. If we assume Sully was facing south, and the plane was over the GW bridge (since that was the direction he was traveling when he "landed" on the Hudson), Teterboro is NW of where the plane was, Newark is SW. If Sully's momentum was heading S, then Newark may have been more feasible than Teterboro, even though Teterboro is much closer in distance to the GW bridge.
Adam Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 If we assume Sully was facing south, and the plane was over the GW bridge (since that was the direction he was traveling when he "landed" on the Hudson), Teterboro is NW of where the plane was, Newark is SW. If Sully's momentum was heading S, then Newark may have been more feasible than Teterboro, even though Teterboro is much closer in distance to the GW bridge. I am sure you guys know a heck of a lot more about planes than I do, but I am sure the pilot had to make a pretty quick decision. It took a lot of skill and a lot of luck
KD in CA Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 it was 32 degrees kelvin It's Kevin, not Kelvin. It seems to me that they were still flying west (turning south) over the Bronx when they discussed Teterboro, so that was certainly his best option for an airstrip. But I think he knew he was sinking fast and couldn't risk shorting Teterboro and crashing into a populated area. Sounds odd, but with such limited options, the river was the only safe place to land.
RkFast Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 If we assume Sully was facing south, and the plane was over the GW bridge (since that was the direction he was traveling when he "landed" on the Hudson), Teterboro is NW of where the plane was, Newark is SW. If Sully's momentum was heading S, then Newark may have been more feasible than Teterboro, even though Teterboro is much closer in distance to the GW bridge. Dont forget winds, too. But I think it was a calm day if I recall. We are talkin' basic energy/momentum measurement here. The basic essence of flying.
stuckincincy Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 32 degrees Kelvin is -241 degrees Celsius.....thats f-in cold. Absolutely...
RkFast Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 I read the terrain/water landing checklist for the A320 a while back. It basically goes like this: 1. Shut down everything. 2. Activate fire bottles. 3. Hold on to your azz.
RkFast Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Here Duey.....here is a good comparison from another bird strike. Notice how ATC keeps providing information and more important options to this 757 so the pilot can decide what to do, even down to when he is safely on the ground and stopped.
Fan in San Diego Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 If we assume Sully was facing south, and the plane was over the GW bridge (since that was the direction he was traveling when he "landed" on the Hudson), Teterboro is NW of where the plane was, Newark is SW. If Sully's momentum was heading S, then Newark may have been more feasible than Teterboro, even though Teterboro is much closer in distance to the GW bridge. Does the glide ratio of that plane make any of those options discussed even possible? I'm assuming they were not real options thats why the guy ditched in the Hudson.
KD in CA Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Absolutely... Does the glide ratio of that plane make any of those options discussed even possible? I'm assuming they were not real options thats why the guy ditched in the Hudson. As it turned out, no. Of course, ATC had no way of knowing it at the time they were searching for a more standard solution.
Wacka Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 The pilot's from the town 10 miles north of me , Danville, CA. Two weeks ago about 4,000 people showed up to honor him.
Marv's Neighbor Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 He didnt "get" what was happenning becuase he had very limited info. He knew he had a damanged plane looking for a spot to land and he knew his altitiude and ground speed. Thats all. He didnt know how damaged the engines were, if they were still making thrust at all or anyhthing else. Oh...and despite this flight's emergency call, this controller was still responsible for all the other aircraft in his sector. ATC's job in that situation is to keep providing info to the pilots so that they can continue to weigh their options and make a decision. That controller did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do. You're right but I didn't understand why they offered Runway 1 at Teterboro when the plane was flying to the South?
RkFast Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 You're right but I didn't understand why they offered Runway 1 at Teterboro when the plane was flying to the South? Yeesh....good point.
GG Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 You're right but I didn't understand why they offered Runway 1 at Teterboro when the plane was flying to the South? Does it really matter? One runway is N, the other is NE, either way he'd have to bank hard right if he was already by GW.
Britbillsfan Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 You're right but I didn't understand why they offered Runway 1 at Teterboro when the plane was flying to the South? Because the pilot initially asked about using Teterboro first, when he realised the other airport was not feasible. The pilot then saw Teterboro was equally out of the equation and chose the Hudson instead. (Reading the transcript of the radio conversations published in this country, at least)
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