Joe Miner Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Ok, the board consensus seems to be to take a DE in the upcoming 2009 draft. Let's do as good a comparison that we can between all of the potential DE's that could be taken at pick 11. Let's try to look as much real information as possible. I'll try to set some parameters for discussion so that we aren't off track baselessly bashing one guy while we praise another who we don't really know anything about. In no particular order 1) Physical Size & Speed 2) Playing Technique (speed rusher/power rusher, good footwork, good hands, 4-3/3-4, etc...) 3) College Performance Overall 4) Specific College performances (or under performances) 5) Mental Acuity 6) Behavior Issues 7) Work Ethic 8) Anything else I've missed The DE's that I've seen suggested and rated as 1st round prospects are: In no particular order: Brian Orakpo DE UT 6'4 250 lbs. Everette Brown DE FSU 6'4 260 lbs. Michael Johnson DE GT 6'7 257 lbs. Aaron Maybin DE PSU 6'4 240 lbs. Greg Hardy DE Ole Miss 6'5 260 lbs.
bills_red Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Everette Brown is no way 260 more like 245 Greg Hardy is 265
Joe Miner Posted January 15, 2009 Author Posted January 15, 2009 Everette Brown is no way 260 more like 245Greg Hardy is 265 Before the numbers argument start, these were all taken from the Walter Football page. http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009DE.php This should basically just get us in the ballpark, as we'll have to wait until the combine to see who has added and lost weight. Let me add, that if you feel the numbers are incorrect, feel free to state it, I'm just not trying to start an actual height weight argument. As long as we're in a decent ballpark on that I'll feel comfortable.
dickie do-right Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Before the numbers argument start, these were all taken from the Walter Football page. http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009DE.php according to your link Hardy is listed as 6'5" 260 lbs.
Joe Miner Posted January 15, 2009 Author Posted January 15, 2009 according to your link Hardy is listed as 6'5" 260 lbs. Oops..I'm illiterate. Fixed above
Lofton80 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 8) Anything else I've missed Toughness, relentless desire to beat the guy in front of you and bury the QB. No read and react, good workout numbers, high motor types. Have our inner circle follow Jerry Reese's playbook in NY. He seems to get the pass rushers year after year. Rather than focus on selecting all the class presidents and community volunteers, maybe DJ will push for someone that has actually hit a QB in his career.
stuckincincy Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Before the numbers argument start, these were all taken from the Walter Football page. http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009DE.php This should basically just get us in the ballpark, as we'll have to wait until the combine to see who has added and lost weight. Let me add, that if you feel the numbers are incorrect, feel free to state it, I'm just not trying to start an actual height weight argument. As long as we're in a decent ballpark on that I'll feel comfortable. Thanks for the link. I'll throw a bone in for #8 on their list - Conner Barwin, who that site likes in rnd 2. I'm biased, because I've watched the televised UC games as of late. He was recruited by previous UC coaching staff (this year, largely a senior team - new coach Brian Kelly was a plus but we will see what happens to his currently-shining star next season). Barwin is quick and fast, and strings out plays. Well worth a look. As is UC's DT Terrill Byrd.
BillsVet Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Thanks for the link. I'll throw a bone in for #8 on their list - Conner Barwin, who that site likes in rnd 2. I'm biased, because I've watched the televised UC games as of late. He was recruited by previous UC coaching staff (this year, largely a senior team - new coach Brian Kelly was a plus but we will see what happens to his currently-shining star next season). Barwin is quick and fast, and strings out plays. Well worth a look. As is UC's DT Terrill Byrd. He seems to have excellent athleticism and wasn't a bad TE for UC. I think Barwin could be a sleeper as well, but I haven't watched him as much as Everette Brown or Orakpo.
Rubes Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Just think of the most unlikely DE you can dredge up, and that's who we'll take.
Lofton80 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Sign Chris Canty from Dallas, sign the reinstated Hargrove and draft Curry of Wake Forest. Would be an improvement. More likely scenario we will extend Kelsay for his leadership and great quotability, resign Crowell and draft a safety.
thebandit27 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Sign Chris Canty from Dallas, sign the reinstated Hargrove and draft Curry of Wake Forest. Would be an improvement. More likely scenario we will extend Kelsay for his leadership and great quotability, resign Crowell and draft a safety. Three problems with this scenario: 1.) Canty plays DE in a 3-4, unless the Bills plan to switch to that alignment--which there is no indication they will do--it doesn't make sense. He doesn't seem to be a great fit at either DE or DT in a 4-3. Plus, 10 sacks in 64 career games (50 starts) as a pro, never eclipsing 3.5 sacks in a season? I'm not seeing the productivity that would warrant adding him to help the pass rush. 2.) Where do people get the idea that Hargrove is an NFL DE? He had 2 sacks in 22 games with Buffalo, how can you rail on Kelsay for his lack of productivity and in the same post support the signing of a guy that's just as ineffective? He and Kelsay are very similar in productivity. In Hargrove's best season, he had 6 sacks, and 4 of them came in the final 3 weeks of the season. In Kelsay's best season, he had 5 sacks, and 2 came in one game. I'm all for picking up a DE, but let's get one that can play football. If there's not one available in free agency, then draft a few, but there's no point in signing guys that we know cannot play just for the sake of bringing in someone. 3.) Aaron Curry is a top 5 pick, the Bills pick No. 11, not gonna happen.
bills_red Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 and the link also has Brown at Height: 6-4. Weight: 250. not 260
stuckincincy Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 He seems to have excellent athleticism and wasn't a bad TE for UC. I think Barwin could be a sleeper as well, but I haven't watched him as much as Everette Brown or Orakpo. Yep - who ever really can say this or that player is a sure thing? My wife 'n me take a Saturday breakfast at a restaurant. I rattle off the 15 or so collegiate TV games in the sports page listings and she pleasantly listens to me. I probably watch two of them ...max - the rest is channel flipping.
lets_go_bills Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Ok, the board consensus seems to be to take a DE in the upcoming 2009 draft. Let's do as good a comparison that we can between all of the potential DE's that could be taken at pick 11. Let's try to look as much real information as possible. I'll try to set some parameters for discussion so that we aren't off track baselessly bashing one guy while we praise another who we don't really know anything about. In no particular order 1) Physical Size & Speed 2) Playing Technique (speed rusher/power rusher, good footwork, good hands, 4-3/3-4, etc...) 3) College Performance Overall 4) Specific College performances (or under performances) 5) Mental Acuity 6) Behavior Issues 7) Work Ethic 8) Anything else I've missed The DE's that I've seen suggested and rated as 1st round prospects are: In no particular order: Brian Orakpo DE UT 6'4 250 lbs. Everette Brown DE FSU 6'4 260 lbs. Michael Johnson DE GT 6'7 257 lbs. Aaron Maybin DE PSU 6'4 240 lbs. Greg Hardy DE Ole Miss 6'5 260 lbs. Good luck with that.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Wow, Like kindergarten. As Joe Miner said, let's wait till the combine regarding height, weight etc. Unfortunately a lot of the video on these guys has been taken off Youtube lately and/or the video is of poor quality. That being said, the most natural looking pass rusher I've seen is Everette Brown. Yes he's a bit svelte but very fluid and explosive. He reminds me of Bruce Smith after Bruce thinned down to 260. I'm a bit turned-off by his sack celebrations. I guess I'm hopelessly old school but it's a turn-off for me when a guy gets a sack and runs away from his teammates to glory himself without "their interference." Seems like when you sack a guy you should be celebrating with your teammates or even better, "acting like you've been there before." Nevertheless, he's very gifted and young and even though he's already superb, I think he has a high ceiling still. To boot, he's a junior but has already finished his degree. As a footnote on size, people forget that Dwight Freeney was not considered blue chip by many teams particularly because he was measured at a shade over 6'1". When Bill Polian took him at #11, many people thought it was a reach. The concern with people like Freeney and say, Elvis Dumervil is that they will get "engulfed" by long-armed tackles. However there are plenty of guys out there with perfectly sized bodies who can't rush the passer. Brown is a classically built pass rusher who also has produced on the field. I like him the best.
lets_go_bills Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Wow, Like kindergarten. As Joe Miner said, let's wait till the combine regarding height, weight etc. Unfortunately a lot of the video on these guys has been taken off Youtube lately and/or the video is of poor quality. That being said, the most natural looking pass rusher I've seen is Everette Brown. Yes he's a bit svelte but very fluid and explosive. He reminds me of Bruce Smith after Bruce thinned down to 260. I'm a bit turned-off by his sack celebrations. I guess I'm hopelessly old school but it's a turn-off for me when a guy gets a sack and runs away from his teammates to glory himself without "their interference." Seems like when you sack a guy you should be celebrating with your teammates or even better, "acting like you've been there before." Nevertheless, he's very gifted and young and even though he's already superb, I think he has a high ceiling still. To boot, he's a junior but has already finished his degree. As a footnote on size, people forget that Dwight Freeney was not considered blue chip by many teams particularly because he was measured at a shade over 6'1". When Bill Polian took him at #11, many people thought it was a reach. The concern with people like Freeney and say, Elvis Dumervil is that they will get "engulfed" by long-armed tackles. However there are plenty of guys out there with perfectly sized bodies who can't rush the passer. Brown is a classically built pass rusher who also has produced on the field. I like him the best. Brown is my favourite right now too. He's so quick and explosive off the line. He produces and is a hungry sack artist. 6'4" 252lbs is great size for a red shirt junior. He can put on ten lbs no problem. I don't think he'll have any problem holding up his own in the NFL. I've only seen a little video of him, but he looks like a good fit to me. I can definately see him wearing Bills blue next season. In regards to the other pass rushers: Orakpo: Workout warrior, yes, but I'm not sold on him yet. Played okay against OSU. Hardy: Very hot and cold. When he's on, he's unblockable. But he disappears in games and injuries are a concern. Johnson: Great size/athletic ability but the production is lacking. Screams bust to me. Maybin: Should of stayed in school for one more year. Only 235lbs. But he's a sack artist.
billybob Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Ok, the board consensus seems to be to take a DE in the upcoming 2009 draft. Let's do as good a comparison that we can between all of the potential DE's that could be taken at pick 11. Let's try to look as much real information as possible. I'll try to set some parameters for discussion so that we aren't off track baselessly bashing one guy while we praise another who we don't really know anything about. In no particular order 1) Physical Size & Speed 2) Playing Technique (speed rusher/power rusher, good footwork, good hands, 4-3/3-4, etc...) 3) College Performance Overall 4) Specific College performances (or under performances) 5) Mental Acuity 6) Behavior Issues 7) Work Ethic 8) Anything else I've missed The DE's that I've seen suggested and rated as 1st round prospects are: In no particular order: Brian Orakpo DE UT 6'4 250 lbs. Everette Brown DE FSU 6'4 260 lbs. Michael Johnson DE GT 6'7 257 lbs. Aaron Maybin DE PSU 6'4 240 lbs. Greg Hardy DE Ole Miss 6'5 260 lbs. I just watched a DE who looked awesome in his highlight video- he's 6,5 265, and runs a 4.65 40, During his senior season, he garnered 8.5 sacks, 9 tackles for loss and 38 quarterback hurries. I think he has a chance to play a little bit for the Bills in 2009- his name? ha ha Chris Ellis
Bflojohn Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 The combine will provide some answers and the best of these is their work habits! A number of programs in Arizona and Florida prepare these athletes for the "scrutiny" the combine puts them through. I'll take one guy, like Everette Brown as an example. He just might come out of Indianapolis with the scouts absolutely drooling because he's literally put on noticeable muscle mass, increased his stamina, lowered his reported 40 time and benched the world like Charles Atlas!! Now. IF his game film matches his output there, he shoots past us at 11, and earns himself a tidy sum of money. This stuff matters to these guys and may the best man win..... or get drafted by the Buffalo Bills ideally!! Oh, by the way, Brian Orapko is my choice here.
Ramius Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I'm all about Everette Brown, but i may be a bit biased. EDIT: Count Hardy out, he's staying. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3835105
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I just watched a DE who looked awesome in his highlight video- he's 6,5 265, and runs a 4.65 40, During his senior season, he garnered 8.5 sacks, 9 tackles for loss and 38 quarterback hurries. I think he has a chance to play a little bit for the Bills in 2009- his name? ha ha Chris Ellis By the way, I haven't given up on Ellis yet either. But there was a reason he was taken in the 3rd round. He looked to me like he just wasn't strong enough. But don't write him off. And regardless, if he does bust I'd rather have a 3rd round bust (if there's even such a thing) than a 1st round bust like Vernon Gholston.
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