Fezmid Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I work for a very large O/S and office productivity software company. Let me put it this way. When I am in the market for a PC, I look to Lenovo. My warranty turnaround time from them is 4 business days TOTAL, from me getting on the phone with them to me getting the box back with my laptop in it. From what I gather Sony is also a very good partner, though their stuff is expensive. I do not buy from Dell. I won't go further than that, but that's basically all you need to know. You know, when I was at my last company I was invited to a Lenovo seminar. I think they thought I had some sort of power to convince the company to buy their laptops, but I digress. The presentation was great. They talked about all of the little extra things they do to make their laptops better than the competition (Dell). Little things like trays that filter spilled liquids away from the electronics, better latching, and stronger plastic bezel. Then they gave everyone at the presentation (about a dozen people) a free laptop -- either the Thinkpad T61 or the X61. I took the T61, and I have to say I'm VERY impressed with it -- so much so that I'll probably buy another Lenovo when I need a new laptop. They're quite a bit more expensive compared to Dell (and I haven't had any problems with the two Dell laptops we have in the house), but they just feel like they're built better. I'm sold.
GoodBye Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 That's happening to a lot of the computer industry. Web site hosting and online services are getting to be that way as well. Ugh, don't get me started with this...
sullim4 Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 You know, when I was at my last company I was invited to a Lenovo seminar. I think they thought I had some sort of power to convince the company to buy their laptops, but I digress. The presentation was great. They talked about all of the little extra things they do to make their laptops better than the competition (Dell). Little things like trays that filter spilled liquids away from the electronics, better latching, and stronger plastic bezel. Then they gave everyone at the presentation (about a dozen people) a free laptop -- either the Thinkpad T61 or the X61. I took the T61, and I have to say I'm VERY impressed with it -- so much so that I'll probably buy another Lenovo when I need a new laptop. They're quite a bit more expensive compared to Dell (and I haven't had any problems with the two Dell laptops we have in the house), but they just feel like they're built better. I'm sold. It's funny this topic came up because I just sat through a presentation from one of our VPs on our OEM/ODM partners within the last month. I'm limited in what I can say since much of the info was proprietary but what I can say is that if you walk around our corporate campus (it's largely public, btw) you'll find more people carrying a Lenovo or Sony than any other laptop brand. Dell is great for certain things, for example their monitors are excellent. But take a guess on who the repair tech I spoke with said was their most called-about manufacturer for repairs of desktops and laptops?
PromoTheRobot Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I never spend a lot of money on computers. I treat them almost like kleenex. They break? They get tossed and replaced. (Of course I back up everything.) Luckily I've had no major issues with my HP (XP) and Acer (Vista) lappys. I do a lot of my own service. In fact I replaced the DVD-ROM on my HP laptop just 5 minutes ago. (Took all of 2 minutes to do.) It's good to learn something about these fancy thinkin' boxes. I don't consider myself an expert but I seem to know a bit more than your average shmoe. My daughter is taking a course on how to take apart and rebuild a computer, and learn what every part does. She plans on building her own screamin' game box, and I plan to learn as much off her as I can. Check your local community college and see if they offer a similar corse. PTR
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Funny stuff from a conservative. You realize that customer service is sooooo ridiculously bad, because it isn't a profit generating portion of business, thus the higher ups prefer to lean out that sector compared to other areas. Also, do you wonder why the customer facing people at these large organizations are some of the lowest paying. There is your answer. You keep on believing that its the younger generation, not your generation that really screwed the pooch... That too... The "Boomers" really phucked up this world...
Alaska Darin Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I haven't had any experience with Lenovo but when it was IBM there was little doubt they had the highest quality in the industry and it really wasn't close. The biggest problem was their price was a minimum 33% over Dell and the lead times were absolutely ridiculous (everything that fit our corporate requirements took at least 45 days to show up). They were absolutely bullet proof and some of the "added" proprietary software did really cool stuff. But we ended up standardizing with Dell across the board because it was much cheaper and easier to manage one vendor and at the time their customer service for our spending level was outstanding. The lead times/price really killed their bid.
Fezmid Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 you'll find more people carrying a Lenovo or Sony than any other laptop brand. If you work for the company you implied in your first post, then I've been told by our local rep that there's an awful lot of Apple laptops around campus too.... Which is extremely funny.
Da Big Man Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I had a Dell computer for about 6 years and when my printer crapped, I bought a new one and the Dell unit would not support the new printer because Dell in New Delhi said it was " out dated ". They would not aid me at all either by comping me a new Dell printer or getting me assistance to update my old unit to accomidate the new printer. An American rep told me that this company ,Dell, is policy driven and that customer service is not something they practice. I got hung up on several times after dealing with these Indians and being on hold for 45 mins. at a time. Long story short, I threw out the Dell..right to the curb. Then I bought a new Gateway and have never been happier. A quad core with an all in one printer and a 22" HD monitor. Send Dell packing!!!!!
Fezmid Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 I had a Dell computer for about 6 years and when my printer crapped, I bought a new one and the Dell unit would not support the new printer because Dell in New Delhi said it was " out dated ". You do realize that this has nothing to do with the PC and everything to do with the OS, right? A USB or Parallel port is the same regardless of who sells you the silicon.
udonkey Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 If this were 2004-2007, this is where I'd chime in and give you numbers to call and ways to resolve this. However, I haven't worked for Dell since Oct, 2007. Regardless, I've had nothing but great luck with them, but I am aware that the horror stories are out there, and plentiful. Best of luck to you in getting this resolved and/or moving forward.
sullim4 Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 If you work for the company you implied in your first post, then I've been told by our local rep that there's an awful lot of Apple laptops around campus too.... Which is extremely funny. That is very true . Though I would say it's iPhones that are more prevalent that the notebooks.
Da Big Man Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 You do realize that this has nothing to do with the PC and everything to do with the OS, right? A USB or Parallel port is the same regardless of who sells you the silicon. I am not a computer savy person. They told me it was due to not having the drivers to support a new printer. I bought a canon all in one and they ,of course, suggested that I purchase a Dell. It's really about the customer service and tech support or lack there of.
Fezmid Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I am not a computer savy person. They told me it was due to not having the drivers to support a new printer. I bought a canon all in one and they ,of course, suggested that I purchase a Dell. It's really about the customer service and tech support or lack there of. Yes -- the printer was so old that there were no drivers on the new OS to support it. People want cheap electronics ($50 printers! $300 PCs! YAY!!!), but then they get upset when there's no support behind it. Well, the company (Dell, in this case) needs to make a profit. If they're not going to make much on the sale of the equipment, they need to make it up in other areas -- and that's usually support. How can the company make money selling a printer for $50, but still writing drivers for it 6 years later? Dell can't, and the company that made the initial printer can't. It's not about customer service and tech support -- if you pay for it, you'll get it -- but most people don't want to pay for it.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 16, 2009 Author Posted January 16, 2009 Yes -- the printer was so old that there were no drivers on the new OS to support it. People want cheap electronics ($50 printers! $300 PCs! YAY!!!), but then they get upset when there's no support behind it. Well, the company (Dell, in this case) needs to make a profit. If they're not going to make much on the sale of the equipment, they need to make it up in other areas -- and that's usually support. How can the company make money selling a printer for $50, but still writing drivers for it 6 years later? Dell can't, and the company that made the initial printer can't. It's not about customer service and tech support -- if you pay for it, you'll get it -- but most people don't want to pay for it. You may be right about people want cheap electronics but using printers as an example is a bad one, IMO. You don't have to know a thing about computers or electronics to know that printers are cheap solely because the companies rip you off for ink cartridges and laser toners, which are obscenely over-priced and over-marked up.
Da Big Man Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Yes -- the printer was so old that there were no drivers on the new OS to support it. People want cheap electronics ($50 printers! $300 PCs! YAY!!!), but then they get upset when there's no support behind it. Well, the company (Dell, in this case) needs to make a profit. If they're not going to make much on the sale of the equipment, they need to make it up in other areas -- and that's usually support. How can the company make money selling a printer for $50, but still writing drivers for it 6 years later? Dell can't, and the company that made the initial printer can't. It's not about customer service and tech support -- if you pay for it, you'll get it -- but most people don't want to pay for it. In 2002 my Dell wasn't cheap. I got all the upgrades and 24/7 support for awhile. The Dell drives wouldn't suupport a 150 dollar printer. IMO, this is 2009 everything should be out of the box technology. Driver programs should be easily upgraded and the fact is because of India's pro-policy ideology they lost a lot of customers in me and my family and friends. I would have stayed if I was satisfied, I don't buy junk. To insure future profits you must keep repeat customers happy, business 101. My new unit is the best money can buy with full upgrades. Dell reps just didn't care about me or my dilemma. F'n pashtunes. Dell will tank soon enough, just like Old Navy. P.S. The comparable Dell printer was 109 dollars, not 50. Research much?
Alaska Darin Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 In 2002 my Dell wasn't cheap. I got all the upgrades and 24/7 support for awhile. The Dell drives wouldn't suupport a 150 dollar printer. IMO, this is 2009 everything should be out of the box technology. Driver programs should be easily upgraded and the fact is because of India's pro-policy ideology they lost a lot of customers in me and my family and friends. I would have stayed if I was satisfied, I don't buy junk. To insure future profits you must keep repeat customers happy, business 101. My new unit is the best money can buy with full upgrades. Dell reps just didn't care about me or my dilemma. F'n pashtunes. Dell will tank soon enough, just like Old Navy. P.S. The comparable Dell printer was 109 dollars, not 50. Research much? It's 2009. Your 2002 "expensive Dell" is the equivalent of a horse drawn carriage against a ZR1. And your problem had nothing to do with your "Dell drives". It's pretty obvious you don't know a lot about computers or business. If you don't buy a PC every 3 or 4 years, no vendor is going to give a flying crap about you because you end up costing them money. PC companies are incredibly cyclical animals. Gateway and HPQ were both on the verge of complete collapse not too long ago. The market/margins/greed forces each of them to make decisions and generally in the short term they make bad ones. It is what it is.
Fezmid Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 In 2002 my Dell wasn't cheap. I got all the upgrades and 24/7 support for awhile. Right, and then you stopped paying for support, yet you still expect support on your cheap printer and 7 year old computer...? How many years should they be expected to support the stuff? Heck, the companies (ALL of them) stop supporting the stuff after a few years unless you upgrade. And I'm talking enterprise-class hardware/software. We have servers at my company that cost $500,000/each that we need to replace because they're no longer supported by the vendor (well, we COULD get support, but it's cheaper to just buy a new server). There's just no way that a company can support every peice of software and hardware for eternity. It's just not possible. And in fact, the problem wasn't even with Dell -- like I said, your real issue is with Canon (who made the printer and are resposible for writing the drivers) and/or Microsoft (who wrote the OS). Dell just sold you some silicon, so why are you blaming them? The Dell drives wouldn't suupport a 150 dollar printer. IMO, this is 2009 everything should be out of the box technology. Driver programs should be easily upgraded and the fact is because of India's pro-policy ideology they lost a lot of customers in me and my family and friends. You simply do not understand how hardware/software work (which you admitted to earlier). I hate India outsourcing/offshoring as much as the next guy, but that had nothing to do with the situation you talked about. There was literally NOTHING that could be done. Your printer was no longer supported by the manufacturer, so no new drivers could be written. You really think companies should spend time/money (programmers are expensive) supporting a 7 year old printer.... Seriously?? P.S. The comparable Dell printer was 109 dollars, not 50. Research much? A $109 printer in 2002 is a cheap peice of crap printer.
Fezmid Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 You may be right about people want cheap electronics but using printers as an example is a bad one, IMO. You don't have to know a thing about computers or electronics to know that printers are cheap solely because the companies rip you off for ink cartridges and laser toners, which are obscenely over-priced and over-marked up. Would you be willing to spend $500 on a printer that was supported for a long time if the consumables were cheaper? Most people woudn't - home printers are now generally disposable, and thus not supported long-term. I bought a nice high-end Brother laser printer back around 2002 or so. Cost me around $500-$600, and I've only had to buy one new toner cartridge (for about $60) - and that's with my wife starting and finishing her MBA in the process! I paid a lot up front, but not so much afterwards. You can still do that, but most people don't. I'm still not sure which is better, to be honest, although I do love this printer and will be sad when it dies or if it is no longer supported if I "upgrade" to Windows 7.
Da Big Man Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Right, and then you stopped paying for support, yet you still expect support on your cheap printer and 7 year old computer...? How many years should they be expected to support the stuff? Heck, the companies (ALL of them) stop supporting the stuff after a few years unless you upgrade. And I'm talking enterprise-class hardware/software. We have servers at my company that cost $500,000/each that we need to replace because they're no longer supported by the vendor (well, we COULD get support, but it's cheaper to just buy a new server). There's just no way that a company can support every peice of software and hardware for eternity. It's just not possible. And in fact, the problem wasn't even with Dell -- like I said, your real issue is with Canon (who made the printer and are resposible for writing the drivers) and/or Microsoft (who wrote the OS). Dell just sold you some silicon, so why are you blaming them? You simply do not understand how hardware/software work (which you admitted to earlier). I hate India outsourcing/offshoring as much as the next guy, but that had nothing to do with the situation you talked about. There was literally NOTHING that could be done. Your printer was no longer supported by the manufacturer, so no new drivers could be written. You really think companies should spend time/money (programmers are expensive) supporting a 7 year old printer.... Seriously?? A $109 printer in 2002 is a cheap peice of crap printer. Alright, all knowing fezkid. The printer that was 109 dollars was the price of a Dell replacement last year when all this sh-- happened. I went with a nice canon. P.S. Programmers are a dime a dozen now, most are on the unemployment line and would appreciate a job. Dell treated me poorly and for that simple fact I will never do business with them again. If I ran my businesss that way I would be out of business. In your "I know everything" ramblings you failed to see the real message . It wasn't what was compatable with what , but the way they treated me, not steering me in any direction. Heartless Indians who would only try to sell me a new printer rather than amicably resolve the issue.
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