sullim4 Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 The back judge was not Freeman, it was Bob Lawing #17. He is the back judge on McAulay's crew this year. Freeman was an alternate, having served on Jeff Triplette's crew this year.
VOR Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 It thought it was going to be Byron Boston. Now THAT would have been poetic justice!
sullim4 Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Well watch for Mr. Boston to be getting a CC assignment this week... likely in the NFC game with Walt Anderson.
Gordio Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 guess you got me! And no, the backjudge cannot see both the ball and the play clock at the same time. The definition of the rule requires him to look from ball to clock back to ball. That takes time, and he cannot "estimate" when the clock hits 0. He has to see the clock hit 0, then check to see if the ball was snapped. If it wasn't, out comes the flag. If you want to argue that a better system is needed, that's fine. But dont sit there and act like the backjudge can see everything at the same time and toss a flag at the instant the clock hits 0. And again, that play had little to do with the titans losing. I could care less if the Titans won. It was the wrong call, the back judge blew it & if you think there is no difference going from 1st & 10 at midfield in a tie late in the game then 3 & 15 from their own 27 I really do not know how to answer that. Where a field goal won the game on that drive, you really think that blown call had nothing to do with the titans losing?
Dan Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I agree that a better system needs to be in place. However, look at the video on youtube. The play clock hits 0 at 2:53 left, and the ravens snap the ball with 2:52 left. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLYw8jEEixY I saw a Yahoo! article (I'm too lazy to go look it up again, so just trust me on this) that had the snap clocked at 1.35 seconds after the play clock hit zero. What I find most interesting about this whole debate is that no one is debating the need for a flag; its pretty well agreed upon that the snap was after the clock it zero. So, there was a penalty. Everyone saw it. Yet, no flag and the league basically says our refs are too old to use their peripheral vision. The results of the play are inconsequential to the larger problem IMO. The league made a mistake and rather than acknowledge the mistake and take measures to improve, they're just saying well it's tough to get all the calls right sure we'd like to be right all the time but we're not but these refs are all great guys that work hard (sorry had a Jauron moment). It's a growing problem in the NFL. Its almost becoming the norm to expect to see at least 1 or 2 blatantly bad calls in a game - and very often at critical times. So what is the league doing about it? Are they instituting a replay system like the college game which seems so much better? Are they hiring full time refs that can concentrate on improving their performance? Are they doing anything other than worrying about the refs uniform or head gear? That's what gets me. We all see repeated mistakes being made and the league response is always the same... heh.. so what.
Beerball Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I saw a Yahoo! article (I'm too lazy to go look it up again, so just trust me on this) that had the snap clocked at 1.35 seconds after the play clock hit zero. What I find most interesting about this whole debate is that no one is debating the need for a flag; its pretty well agreed upon that the snap was after the clock it zero. So, there was a penalty. Everyone saw it. Yet, no flag and the league basically says our refs are too old to use their peripheral vision. The results of the play are inconsequential to the larger problem IMO. The league made a mistake and rather than acknowledge the mistake and take measures to improve, they're just saying well it's tough to get all the calls right sure we'd like to be right all the time but we're not but these refs are all great guys that work hard (sorry had a Jauron moment). It's a growing problem in the NFL. Its almost becoming the norm to expect to see at least 1 or 2 blatantly bad calls in a game - and very often at critical times. So what is the league doing about it? Are they instituting a replay system like the college game which seems so much better? Are they hiring full time refs that can concentrate on improving their performance? Are they doing anything other than worrying about the refs uniform or head gear? That's what gets me. We all see repeated mistakes being made and the league response is always the same... heh.. so what. Fisher is on the rules committee isn't he? You can bet your bottom dollar that this will be addressed. And hey...the no fun league refs did catch McNabb on the phone.
Dan Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Fisher is on the rules committee isn't he? You can bet your bottom dollar that this will be addressed. And hey...the no fun league refs did catch McNabb on the phone. Yeah. So they spend more time concerned with players off the field than properly watching the play on the field. That's how I see it. And yes, I fully expect Fisher to bring it up. And it wouldn't completely surprise me if they come up with some convoluted way that coaches can throw a flag once a game, twice on Wednesdays, to ask someone how much time is left on the play clock. But if they get it wrong, they'll lose a timeout and 2 points off the board or some other stupidness. As opposed to just better placement of the play clock in all stadiums or a ref in the booth to watch for crap like that.
Cookiemonster Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I saw a Yahoo! article (I'm too lazy to go look it up again, so just trust me on this) that had the snap clocked at 1.35 seconds after the play clock hit zero. What I find most interesting about this whole debate is that no one is debating the need for a flag; its pretty well agreed upon that the snap was after the clock it zero. So, there was a penalty. Everyone saw it. Yet, no flag and the league basically says our refs are too old to use their peripheral vision. The results of the play are inconsequential to the larger problem IMO. The league made a mistake and rather than acknowledge the mistake and take measures to improve, they're just saying well it's tough to get all the calls right sure we'd like to be right all the time but we're not but these refs are all great guys that work hard (sorry had a Jauron moment). It's a growing problem in the NFL. Its almost becoming the norm to expect to see at least 1 or 2 blatantly bad calls in a game - and very often at critical times. So what is the league doing about it? Are they instituting a replay system like the college game which seems so much better? Are they hiring full time refs that can concentrate on improving their performance? Are they doing anything other than worrying about the refs uniform or head gear? That's what gets me. We all see repeated mistakes being made and the league response is always the same... heh.. so what. Now you are with the program, this is the NFL, they do not answer to anyone, save for an occasional misguided inquiry on spygate by a certain senator/congressman, and we all saw how he buckled them, resulting in some lame statement, followed by shredding of the evidence. They have no competition, are deep pocketed, arrogant, self-serving, have a captive ever increasing fantasy driven market base, and what kind of attitude did you think they would have? O.K. sir we f%c$ed up, we will fix that right away for you there. The Nazi Football Leauge takes direction and critiscm from no one, heck they may try to fine me for these comments. Like I keep saying, I still love to watch, by far the best spectator sport going, but I take what I want from them, and sh-- can the rest. The fantasy nerd/suckers can make sure that they get their $$$.
Beerball Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Yeah. So they spend more time concerned with players off the field than properly watching the play on the field. That's how I see it. Can we discuss socks and those little towelettes that players like to wear? They miss plays that affect play on the field, but damn, everyone's socks look the same!
Cookiemonster Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Can we discuss socks and those little towelettes that players like to wear? They miss plays that affect play on the field, but damn, everyone's socks look the same! Yeh, good point, did I mention that they are manipulative as well. Don't forget that the sign that you carry in to the stadium better be Poltically NFL correct, as well, or you might be escorted out of the stadium.
Ramius Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I saw a Yahoo! article (I'm too lazy to go look it up again, so just trust me on this) that had the snap clocked at 1.35 seconds after the play clock hit zero. What I find most interesting about this whole debate is that no one is debating the need for a flag; its pretty well agreed upon that the snap was after the clock it zero. So, there was a penalty. Everyone saw it. Yet, no flag and the league basically says our refs are too old to use their peripheral vision. The results of the play are inconsequential to the larger problem IMO. The league made a mistake and rather than acknowledge the mistake and take measures to improve, they're just saying well it's tough to get all the calls right sure we'd like to be right all the time but we're not but these refs are all great guys that work hard (sorry had a Jauron moment). It's a growing problem in the NFL. Its almost becoming the norm to expect to see at least 1 or 2 blatantly bad calls in a game - and very often at critical times. So what is the league doing about it? Are they instituting a replay system like the college game which seems so much better? Are they hiring full time refs that can concentrate on improving their performance? Are they doing anything other than worrying about the refs uniform or head gear? That's what gets me. We all see repeated mistakes being made and the league response is always the same... heh.. so what. Agreed. The NFL is very full of itself. God forbid a player do a dance after scoring a TD or have the wrong shade of shoe color, but critical calls? what the heck, its not necessary. I reallydont see what the problem would be in installing these 2 technologies (how amazing, technology!) 1. Install a system that detects when the ball has crossed the plane of the goalline. You've been able to buy an invisible fence that shocks a dog for 15 years now, but the NFL can't develop a system that senses when the ball touches the goalline? 2. As stated previously in this thread, use some type of buzzer for the play clock. Somehow the NFL has managed to rig the wireless helmet mikes for QBs to shut off at 15 seconds left, but they can't rig a wireless buzzer on the backjudge that goes off when the play clock hits zero? Then he just has to watch the ball and when the buzzer is heard/felt, toss the flag. But no, the NFL will continue to tell its fans that they will like everything that is given to them, and that there's nothing wrong with the system or officials.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I could care less if the Titans won. It was the wrong call, the back judge blew it & if you think there is no difference going from 1st & 10 at midfield in a tie late in the game then 3 & 15 from their own 27 I really do not know how to answer that. Where a field goal won the game on that drive, you really think that blown call had nothing to do with the titans losing? Nice to see the wrong call go against the Titans.
Beerball Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Agreed. The NFL is very full of itself. God forbid a player do a dance after scoring a TD or have the wrong shade of shoe color, but critical calls? what the heck, its not necessary. I reallydont see what the problem would be in installing these 2 technologies (how amazing, technology!) 1. Install a system that detects when the ball has crossed the plane of the goalline. You've been able to buy an invisible fence that shocks a dog for 15 years now, but the NFL can't develop a system that senses when the ball touches the goalline? You know what pisses me off? All of the sudden refs can't signal a TD on a goal line run or QB sneak. They have to run in from the sideline and let everyone unpile then they look at the ball carrier to see if he's across the line. Why for 50 years were they able to see this from the sidelines and now all of the sudden they cannot? What makes them think that the ballcarrier isn't worming his way forward a few inches? Or that the defense is trying to push him back a few inches. Make the damn call! AND ANOTHER THING...those mooks couldn't run in a straight line if their life depended on it, yet that's how they spot the friggin ball. Ever watch one of them? See where their run starts and where the spot actually ends up. Sonsabitches are all over celebrations though. We have the technology to build a better ref.
Nanker Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Where's the outrage about Vinny Testaverde's helmet scoring a touchdown - which cost Dennis Erickson his job. Pats* happens. Just give it to 'em and get over it.
cale Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I could care less if the Titans won. It was the wrong call, the back judge blew it & if you think there is no difference going from 1st & 10 at midfield in a tie late in the game then 3 & 15 from their own 27 I really do not know how to answer that. Where a field goal won the game on that drive, you really think that blown call had nothing to do with the titans losing? Nope. Flacco threw the ball *between* two DBs and hit Heap. What the hell were the Titans players doing? Anyone think it's karma that the Titans haven't won't anything of significance since Home Run Throwup? I live in Nashville and the whining has not stopped since Saturday. C
plenzmd1 Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I am as big of a Bills fan as there is, but even I have to admit the Music City Miracle was NOT a forward lateral and has been proven not to be a forward lateral countless times. Bills fans need to get over this and accept that our HORRIBLE Special Teams coverage on that play is why we lost the game as the officials got a VERY CLOSE call correct on this play. And this is from someone who was screaming about this during the play, but accpeted the decision after several replays and computer analysis showed it to be a almost exact lateral pass...regardless, it was close to judge and the officials (probably through dumb luck) got this call right. Kinda OT here, but I have seen analysis that proves it was a forward lateral. However, I saw that show ESPN did on the "the Greatest Game ever played" and they on on some geeky dude who threw some kind of new technology was able to definitably say where a mark was on a crucial third play. I would love to see that same guy do the throwup play and get the right answer finally.
rockpile Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Sorry to say, but the homerun throwback was legit. WRONG The failure in that game was not on the refs, but the Bills special teams unit. CORRECT But we all have opinions.
Tcali Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I agree that a better system needs to be in place. However, look at the video on youtube. The play clock hits 0 at 2:53 left, and the ravens snap the ball with 2:52 left. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLYw8jEEixY Ok it was 1 full second--but most refs catch that--there IS a technique for that...I didnt say they have to invent one. You see the clock and the ref counts down to himself in the last 3 seconds---3 one thousand two one thousand one one thousand..not hard.Amd most refs do it very well. Enough lame excuses for those refs. It is not a commonly blown call.
Tcali Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I could care less if the Titans won. It was the wrong call, the back judge blew it & if you think there is no difference going from 1st & 10 at midfield in a tie late in the game then 3 & 15 from their own 27 I really do not know how to answer that. Where a field goal won the game on that drive, you really think that blown call had nothing to do with the titans losing? right on. true. But Im glad they lost
Gordio Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 right on. true. But Im glad they lost To think like Ramius does & to think it is not probable or highly difficult to throw the flag simultaneously when the clock hits double 00s is just plain silly. You illustrated exactly how a ref could do it & I would venture to say if the play clocks are located anywhere near they are located at the Ralph or the other 10 stadiums I have been too, it is not a hard task to both look at the play & the clock at the same time. What the NFL did was give up a piss poor excuse as to why it happened. But as I am sure most people are aware by now on this board Ramius thinks his opinions are always right & when someone disagrees with him they are a dumbass or a tard.
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