ans4e64 Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Why do people act like he does nothing and is a product of the rest of Baltimore's defense? You can't knock Jim's talent. You can't tell me that when Jim knifes into the backfield and tackles Ronnie Brown one on one that its really not Jim being a good tackler, its really the rest of the Ravens' defense. You can't tell me that when he is tackling a player and rips the ball out, causing a fumble, that its really the rest of the Ravens' defense. He's all over the field and always in the right place at the right time. He is a very good tackler, and is always around the ball. Get over yourselves and admit he's a good player. Geesh.
keepthefaith Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Why do people act like he does nothing and is a product of the rest of Baltimore's defense? You can't knock Jim's talent. You can't tell me that when Jim knifes into the backfield and tackles Ronnie Brown one on one that its really not Jim being a good tackler, its really the rest of the Ravens' defense. You can't tell me that when he is tackling a player and rips the ball out, causing a fumble, that its really the rest of the Ravens' defense. He's all over the field and always in the right place at the right time. He is a very good tackler, and is always around the ball. Get over yourselves and admit he's a good player. Geesh. Poor Dick Jauron just doesn't have enough talent to make any players look good.
Rico Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Alright then, let's go ahead and trade Donte to the Ravens for a 5th round pick. See how he does in Baltimore next year...They don't need him, they've got Jim Leonhard.
Dan Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Why can't people realize that just because a player isn't "Pro Bowl" caliber every week, he shouldn't necessarily be run out of town? Leonhard makes a few good plays on one of the greatest defenses in the league and suddenly he's better than Donte or KoMillions? Get rid of McGeheehee, Gandy as I reccall was the worst LT in the league.. run 'em out of town. What people need to realize is that the Bills are a bad team, primarily due to substandard coaching. A lot of players are going to look bad here. It appears to be several years before that even has the possibility of changing. But, go ahead, run a half dozen or so good players out of town along the way if it makes you feel good. However, just get used to seeing them contributing on playoff teams.
Alaska Darin Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Why can't people realize that just because a player isn't "Pro Bowl" caliber every week, he shouldn't necessarily be run out of town? Leonhard makes a few good plays on one of the greatest defenses in the league and suddenly he's better than Donte or KoMillions? Get rid of McGeheehee, Gandy as I reccall was the worst LT in the league.. run 'em out of town. What people need to realize is that the Bills are a bad team, primarily due to substandard coaching. A lot of players are going to look bad here. It appears to be several years before that even has the possibility of changing. But, go ahead, run a half dozen or so good players out of town along the way if it makes you feel good. However, just get used to seeing them contributing on playoff teams. It's the same as bankrupt the "BILLS lack talent" argument. The only place the BILLS really lack talent is the guys wearing headsets on Sundays. I have little doubt if you swapped coaching staffs between Buffalo and New England, Belichick has the BILLS in playoffs on a bye week and New England is sitting at home with their fans running half the roster out of town.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Leonhard on the Ravens defense is like a 9 year-old with no parents around. You can do whatever you want and get away with it. Good for him, he's playing very well on a great defense. If he were still on the Bills he would VERY likely be playing as mediocre as he was when he was here. In fact, what it comes down to is that, when on the field, Bannan and Leonhard went from being the 10th and 11th best players on the Bills defense to being the 10th and 11th best players on the Ravens defense.
Dan Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 It's the same as bankrupt the "BILLS lack talent" argument. The only place the BILLS really lack talent is the guys wearing headsets on Sundays. I have little doubt if you swapped coaching staffs between Buffalo and New England, Belichick has the BILLS in playoffs on a bye week and New England is sitting at home with their fans running half the roster out of town. Sad because it's so, so true. I consider myself a patient person. And anyone that knows me would say I'm almost patient to a fault. As such, I continually gave Jauron et al. the benefit of the doubt. But, as the horrendous mistakes just continued to pile up in each and every game, it's just become impossible to ignore. The guy and his staff are clearly hurting more than they're helping. The final game against the Pats* drove that point home with a sledge hammer.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 He's not terrible but he's certainly not "good". He's a decent player who won't get you killed if he's surrounded by enough talent. He has been MUCH BETTER than decent this year.
Beerstm Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I've never understood people who can't admit that players who leave Buffalo could possibly be good. Players who get the chance to leave Buffalo are lucky!
Hossage Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Can we include justin baanan in this discussion? Or the dozen or so other guys who have left the bills and played better? (excepting willis, who would be a great back if he had two brain cells to rub together.) I was a Leonard fan from the start. He makes great decisions in the defensive backfield and is a good tackler. He doesnt have a lot of range, be he has good acceleration, as we see when he returns kicks. I was really surprised when we let him go. EDIT: I dont disagree with you, biscuit.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 He has been MUCH BETTER than decent this year. Actually in more starts this year, he is less productive than he was in Buffalo. http://www.nfl.com/players/jimleonhard/profile?id=LEO708542 I like JL in college and I'm amazed that he is playing in the NFL at his size. It is remarkable. At the same time, I'm not gonna second guess the Bills for letting a guy go who was equal or worse than George Wilson http://www.nfl.com/players/georgewilson/profile?id=WIL694602 last year with Ko Simpson coming back. It's working out well for JL but many players would having similar results in that great defense.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Can we include justin baanan in this discussion? Or the dozen or so other guys who have left the bills and played better? (excepting willis, who would be a great back if he had two brain cells to rub together.) I was a Leonard fan from the start. He makes great decisions in the defensive backfield and is a good tackler. He doesnt have a lot of range, be he has good acceleration, as we see when he returns kicks. I was really surprised when we let him go. Again, what is Bannan doing that is so great??? http://www.nfl.com/players/justinbannan/profile?id=BAN699243 His numbers are no different than when he was in Buffalo. I would certainly welcome him in our DT rotational, but he's not a superstar by any means. How hard is to play next to Ngata and Suggs and in front of Lewis? Guys like Pat Williams and Shayne Graham are guys we should regret losing. Not 2 average, depth players.
berndogg Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Its all about pass rush. Look at the chargers secondary, last year when Merriman was there they were all-stars. This year for most of the season they were a laughing stock. I'm not trying to discredit leohnard, I think he's very opportunistic, and I dont think you could put any safety in the world there and he'd do just as well, BUT when the opposing QB's mentality is "gotta get rid of the ball before I get killed, don't throw it near Ed reed", it presents a lot more opportunities for the secondary. I mean look at Sam freakin Madison last year, and even Will Allen this year. These are borderline terrible players who were able to make some big plays. Long story short, a good pass rush makes a secondary look better, a bad pass rush makes them look worse, so just keep that in mind when comparing Lehonard to Ko/Donte.
stuckincincy Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Its all about pass rush. Look at the chargers secondary, last year when Merriman was there they were all-stars. This year for most of the season they were a laughing stock. I'm not trying to discredit leohnard, I think he's very opportunistic, and I dont think you could put any safety in the world there and he'd do just as well, BUT when the opposing QB's mentality is "gotta get rid of the ball before I get killed, don't throw it near Ed reed", it presents a lot more opportunities for the secondary. I mean look at Sam freakin Madison last year, and even Will Allen this year. These are borderline terrible players who were able to make some big plays. Long story short, a good pass rush makes a secondary look better, a bad pass rush makes them look worse, so just keep that in mind when comparing Lehonard to Ko/Donte. He's been doing a good job in the return game, too. 2008 Baltimore Ravens Kick returns: G Ret RetY Avg Lng TD 20+ 40+ FC FUM 16 8 163 20.4 30 0 3 0 0 0 Punt Returns: G Ret RetY Avg Lng TD 20+ 40+ FC FUM 16 20 232 11.6 46 0 4 2 9 1
berndogg Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 He's been doing a good job in the return game, too. 2008 Baltimore Ravens Kick returns: G Ret RetY Avg Lng TD 20+ 40+ FC FUM 16 8 163 20.4 30 0 3 0 0 0 Punt Returns: G Ret RetY Avg Lng TD 20+ 40+ FC FUM 16 20 232 11.6 46 0 4 2 9 1 Oh, then we definitely should've kept him, kick and punt returners are clearly the Bills' most pressing need.
May Day 10 Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 coy wire has been a real surprise. I am happy for him. Nice guy. He used to spend all summer on the field with a trainer/coach and (oddly) Travis Henry.
ricojes Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Did anyone notive in the Baltimore game, that Jim Leonard made more positive a dn gamr changing plays in this one gamr than "Our" Ko Simpson made all year. A real tribute to our player evaluation staff., ever Bannan had a decent gamr, not as game changing as Leonard but he held his own against a very good offensivline, and the Ravens gor both players for not a lot of money. A good pass rush makes every player in the secondary better. Put Leonhard back on the Bills and he would be average at best. Put Donte on the Ravens and he's a stand out player. It's very simple, the Bills need a better pass rush!!!
cale Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Its all about pass rush. Look at the chargers secondary, last year when Merriman was there they were all-stars. This year for most of the season they were a laughing stock. I'm not trying to discredit leohnard, I think he's very opportunistic, and I dont think you could put any safety in the world there and he'd do just as well, BUT when the opposing QB's mentality is "gotta get rid of the ball before I get killed, don't throw it near Ed reed", it presents a lot more opportunities for the secondary. I mean look at Sam freakin Madison last year, and even Will Allen this year. These are borderline terrible players who were able to make some big plays. Long story short, a good pass rush makes a secondary look better, a bad pass rush makes them look worse, so just keep that in mind when comparing Lehonard to Ko/Donte. EXACTLY, that's why we took Whitner instead of Ngata with our pick. I agree that superior talent around an above average player can make said player better. But at some point, you have to draft superior talent. We could have had Ngata, one other good to excellent pass rusher in FA or the draft at this point, and together with Schobel they would have made Leonhard look *at least* as good as Whitner. Which incidentally isn't saying much. Before anyone goes off on me on how much a great addition to the locker room Whitner is. I get it. I like him. I think he's a good guy. We're FaceBook buddies for God's sake ;-) But for the love of Pete, when our FO can't make a simple decision about who the better player is per our needs, we've got bigger problems than whether Leonhard is great or just above average. In comparison to Simpson, Whitner and Wilson! Ozzie Newsome in my opinion is the best damn talent evaluator in the league. Pioli get's a lot of credit - but he has had Belichick coaching those guys. Who has Newsome had? Billick! I just gave myself a headache... C
TheBlackMamba Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 guys, i think jim leonhard standing out has more to do with the talent around him than he. i mean he only plays next to the best safety of all time and on possibly the best defensive dynasty in nfl history. i would be willing to bet that if everyones #1 guy donte whitner played next to ed reed he would getting the same amount of accolades as leonhard
Arkady Renko Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 The funny thing is that both Wire and Leonard showed flashes when they got playing time. Wire did well both in special teams and when he was finally moved to back to his natural position.
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