Mister Defense Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Just reading over some of these threads, I was wondering if the majority of people on here really believe that it is a good move to hand over the starting job to McGahee, and that Henry should be on his way out? Surely, MOST people on this board cannot be that illogical. Please, give me some faith in BILLS FANS! Travis Henry has been an extraordainry NFL back the last two years, our best player during that period, and is one of the top five backs in this league. And people think we should replace him with a player who has proven....what??? Absolutely nothing and is coming off a HUGE injury. If it's true, that most people on this board believe this, what illogical people! Probably the same people who thought it was a good idea to hand Rob Johnson Millions (and the Jaguars our pick(s)) because of his two good starts. ( I said at the time it was the most illogical move in the history of this franchise. This move is right up there.) In any case, this is the same misguided, illlogical reasoning that allowed that move, which in my mind, was the beginning of a major decline. PLEASE, say it aint so! Please say that only a tiny minority are this uninformed..................................................
njsue Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 I believe TH is still injured, that is why willis is starting.
rolly Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 I agree, many people here tend to act on emotions instead of looking at the big picture. henry is the better back right now (healthy at least) mcgahee hasnt shown me much. one 100 yard rushing game doesnt make him walter payton
Frez Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Willis is the better RB. He is bigger and faster. Willis shows more patience waitng for his holes to develop. I see much more upside with Willis MaGahee at RB than Travis Henry. You actually think Tom Donahoe took MaGahee with a #1 pick to sit on the bench? Travis Henry a top 5 back in the NFL, ummmm I don't think so.
KD in CA Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Travis Henry has been an extraordainry NFL back the last two years, our best player during that period, and is one of the top five backs in this league. You are questioning the intelligence and logic of people while making the statement that TH is one of the top 5 backs in the leauge?!?!? Talk about irony. I have to assume that you have been wearing the "homer" blinders for so long that you've forgotten how to look objectively at this team and its players.
Frez Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Rank Player Team Yds Att Avg TDs Long 1 Priest Holmes KC 690 148 4.7 10 33 2 Curtis Martin NYJ 683 152 4.5 6 24 3 Chris Brown TEN 663 134 4.9 4 52 4 Ahman Green GB 649 135 4.8 4 90 5 Tiki Barber NYG 647 118 5.5 4 72 6 Corey Dillon NE 637 129 4.9 3 44 7 Edgerrin James IND 634 141 4.5 5 30 8 Clinton Portis WAS 593 153 3.9 2 64 9 Duce Staley PIT 582 126 4.6 1 38 10 LaDainian Tomlinson SD 582 143 4.1 6 42 11 Rudi Johnson CIN 531 132 4.0 3 36 12 Shaun Alexander SEA 524 115 4.6 6 41 13 Thomas Jones CHI 510 116 4.4 5 54 14 Reuben Droughns DEN 509 102 5.0 1 32 15 Fred Taylor JAC 501 121 4.1 1 29 16 Jamal Lewis BAL 494 105 4.7 4 75 17 Marshall Faulk STL 465 111 4.2 3 18 18 Emmitt Smith ARI 459 110 4.2 5 29 19 Brian Westbrook PHI 458 90 5.1 1 50 20 William Green CLE 431 102 4.2 1 26 Whrere does Henry belong?
Mikie2times Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Just reading over some of these threads, I was wondering if the majority of people on here really believe that it is a good move to hand over the starting job to McGahee, and that Henry should be on his way out? Surely, MOST people on this board cannot be that illogical. Please, give me some faith in BILLS FANS! Travis Henry has been an extraordainry NFL back the last two years, our best player during that period, and is one of the top five backs in this league. And people think we should replace him with a player who has proven....what??? Absolutely nothing and is coming off a HUGE injury. If it's true, that most people on this board believe this, what illogical people! Probably the same people who thought it was a good idea to hand Rob Johnson Millions (and the Jaguars our pick(s)) because of his two good starts. ( I said at the time it was the most illogical move in the history of this franchise. This move is right up there.) In any case, this is the same misguided, illlogical reasoning that allowed that move, which in my mind, was the beginning of a major decline. PLEASE, say it aint so! Please say that only a tiny minority are this uninformed.................................................. 92273[/snapback] What have you done for me lately? Thats the way the NFL works today. We are six games into the season and thus far Willis has outplayed Travis. With your "logical" way of thinking we let our #1 draft choice from two seasons ago rot on the bench one more season. I also must be said that Willis is not injured anymore. He may not be 100% but he is not injured, that extra 5-10% he still needs is the hardest part to overcome. That part is more about getting over the mental aspects of his injury then the physical ones. As for Travis he is injured, I refuse to believe that his skill level has declined so rapidly this season. He does not look like the running back he was the last couple of seasons, if he returns to that level then yes he should be starting. So you have to look at Travis in one of two ways right now when trying to understand his recent play, both dictate that Willis should be starting right now. 1. He is injured 2. He is not injured but for whatever reason is not performing like he did in the past If it's scenario one then I expect Travis to return to the back he previously was when he is 100% and be the starter again. If it's scenario two then you must start the guy who is playing better right now, and right now that guy is Willis.
MDH Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Travis Henry has been an extraordainry NFL back the last two years, our best player during that period, and is one of the top five backs in this league. 92273[/snapback] Talk about ignorant...if you think Henry is a top 5RB in this league you don't watch any other teams play but the Bills...
drnykterstein Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 It gives me hope reading your post. Hope that someone will actually want to give us something for Henry when we go to trade him next year. I was afraid everyone would see Henry for the overated back that he is. If you still think he is good, there might just be some owner out there who feels the same way and wants to give us a first rounder for him. I say to you: thank you for that hope.
Mister Defense Posted October 30, 2004 Author Posted October 30, 2004 For KD and FREZ Henry's stats the last two years: 2002: 325 rushes, 1438 yards, 4.4 ypc, and 13 touchdowns 2003: 15 games, 331 carries 1356 yards, 4.1 ypc, and 10 touchdowns Yes, one of the best in the league and statistically too. GROSSLY ILLOGICAL for people to say Henry should be traded, that McGahee should be start, and that McGahee is the better back: Henry has had almost 2800 yards in the last two years and 23 touchdowns. Not illogical to say he is one of the top five backs in the league. I think he'll be an MVP in this league. More than illogical, irresponsible suggestions really: (I hope none of those calling for such illogical moves runs a business!!!)
Guest Guest Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 mister Defense should apparently stick to just that
Thailog80 Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Iognorance????? This is an instant classic!!!!!!!!!
MDH Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 For KD and FREZ: Herny's stats the last two years: 2002: 325 rushes, 1438 yards, 4.4 ypc, and 13 touchdowns 2003: 15 games, 331 carries 1356 yeards, 4.1 ypc, and 10 touchdowns Yes, one of the best in the league and statistically too. GROSSLY ILLOGICAL for people to say Henry should be traded, that McGahee should be start, and that McGahee is the better back: Henry has had almost 2800 yards in the last two years and 23 touchdowns. Not illogical to say he is one of the top five backs in the league. I think he'll be an MVP in this league. More than illogical, irresponsible suggestions really: (I hope none of those calling for such illogical moves runs a business!!! ) 92309[/snapback] Your posts look like a kindergartner that has gotten into the finger paints. Does your version of logic dictate that if you shout and bold all of your opinions this validates them? Despite your contentions, your opinion isn’t based on logic, its based on stats (and TH isn’t a top 5RB even using just stats…). Unfortunately (for you) stats don’t tell the entire story. But go ahead, caps, bold and color the wall to your delight! Just don’t think this makes you a particularly logical being.
Mister Defense Posted October 30, 2004 Author Posted October 30, 2004 Here, look just as impressive small and black: 2002: 325 rushes, 1438 yards, 4.4 ypc, and 13 touchdowns 2003: 15 games, 331 carries 1356 yards, 4.1 ypc, and 10 touchdowns But this deserves to be shouted form the rooftop, so: People want to trade our most valuable player!!!!! And replace him with a completely unproven player!!!!!!!!!! Can you say, 2-14, 1-15? That logic will get us there only. (And MDH, aint nothing in your post to back yourself up--except an immature attack. I'd rather have logic and support in finger paints than none at all. None.)
BenchBledsoe Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Just reading over some of these threads, I was wondering if the majority of people on here really believe that it is a good move to hand over the starting job to McGahee, and that Henry should be on his way out? Surely, MOST people on this board cannot be that illogical. Please, give me some faith in BILLS FANS! Travis Henry has been an extraordainry NFL back the last two years, our best player during that period, and is one of the top five backs in this league. And people think we should replace him with a player who has proven....what??? Absolutely nothing and is coming off a HUGE injury. If it's true, that most people on this board believe this, what illogical people! Probably the same people who thought it was a good idea to hand Rob Johnson Millions (and the Jaguars our pick(s)) because of his two good starts. ( I said at the time it was the most illogical move in the history of this franchise. This move is right up there.) Mister D, have you even been watching the Bills games this year? Clearly Willis is the more productive back. TH had a couple of "nice" seasons, but a healthy Willis will blow those numbers away if he gets the full load. Also, how many times is TH going to slip, trip, fall on 3rd or 4th and short? TH is a decent back but top 5? Hardly. . . and he seems to be a bit prone to getting nicked up too. We have one 100 yd rushing game this year. . . SURE ENOUGH it was Willis. . . in his ONE start this year. See a pattern here? Mister D, we've seen TH's top end last year and it is good but not great. Willis has so much more upside. He is also a much better blocker and receiver. So, you are clearly in the minority. You will, over time, realize you were dead wrong here. And to boot, we might still get a 2nd rounder for TH, which is where he was originally drafted. Don't forget, Willis was one of the players invited as a finalist to the Heismann trophy presentation. He was going # 3 to Houston until his knee went the wrong way. . . Willis WILL have over 100 yds. and the first In any case, this is the same misguided, illlogical reasoning that allowed that move, which in my mind, was the beginning of a major decline. PLEASE, say it aint so! Please say that only a tiny minority are this uninformed.................................................. 92273[/snapback]
Cutting Drew With Dignity Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 For KD and FREZ Henry's stats the last two years: 2002: 325 rushes, 1438 yards, 4.4 ypc, and 13 touchdowns 2003: 15 games, 331 carries 1356 yards, 4.1 ypc, and 10 touchdowns Yes, one of the best in the league and statistically too. GROSSLY ILLOGICAL for people to say Henry should be traded, that McGahee should be start, and that McGahee is the better back: Henry has had almost 2800 yards in the last two years and 23 touchdowns. Not illogical to say he is one of the top five backs in the league. I think he'll be an MVP in this league. More than illogical, irresponsible suggestions really: (I hope none of those calling for such illogical moves runs a business!!!) 92309[/snapback] Looks like he and Pete attend the same Pre-K.
MDH Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Here, look just as impressive small and black:2002: 325 rushes, 1438 yards, 4.4 ypc, and 13 touchdowns 2003: 15 games, 331 carries 1356 yards, 4.1 ypc, and 10 touchdowns But this deserves to be shouted form the rooftop, so: People want to trade our most valuable player!!!!! And replace him with a completely unproven player!!!!!!!!!! Can you say, 2-14, 1-15? That logic will get us there only. (And MDH, aint nothing in your post to back yourself up--except an immature attack. I'd rather have logic and support in finger paints than none at all. None.) 92325[/snapback] Logic = Stats...that's pretty much the summation of your position. First of all, there is more to the RB position than simply running the ball. Blitz pickups are a part of the job. Henry might just be the worst back in the league when it comes to picking up the blitz. Catching the ball out of the backfield is also part of the job. Henry is one of the worst receiving backs in all of football. Both of these things hinder what an offense can do in terms of play calling and it also makes it easy for a defense to defend our O. Now, let's get to the topic of running styles. Henry is a straight-ahead runner who lacks the vision to see holes that aren't where the play is supposed to be. The guy runs headlong into a pile no matter what. Why? Because that's where the play is designed to go. With an Oline that isn't doing the great job at opening up the holes where they're supposed to be, this type of back is a killer to the offense. Willis is a more patient back that waits to see where the hole will open up, and once he sees it he squirts through the hole picking up positive yardage, even if its just a few yards...and even if it's not where the run was supposed to go. This can't be discounted. The difference between picking up a few yards on first and second downs and putting ourselves in 3rd and short situations is huge. Henry wasn't putting us in 3rd and short situations when he was getting the majority of the carries. Also, on the rare occasions where we were in 3rd and 4th and short, Henry failed to pick up the much-needed first downs. Another thing that must be considered is Henry's health. The guy gets injured each and every year because his running style is a punishing one, both to defenses and, unfortunately, to himself. He is already starting to lose something because of this punishment and he isn't a long-term solution for our running game because of it. The wear and tear on his body is going to shorten his career and limit his effectiveness in coming seasons (an argument can be made that this is already the case). Also, Willis, even though he’s not back to 100%, still has more burst than Henry. When’s the last time you saw Henry squirt through for a 31 yard gain? Hell, when’s the last time you saw Henry run over defenders like Willis has been doing over and over again. Willis has more power, speed than Henry. He also has better vision and is better at blitz pickups and catching the ball out of the backfield. Perhaps if you got your nose out of the stat column at NFL.com and started watching what these backs are doing THIS year, you’d see this. You can spout off stats from 2 years ago all you want, they have no bearing whatsoever on this team, right now. Anybody who has watched the games (that includes the coaches who watch the game film) can see that Willis is out producing Henry this season. You play the guys who are playing the best right now, posting stats from seasons past isn't going to make Henry better today. Nobody is talking about trading Henry right now...the trade deadline has passed. So we now have the luxury of finding out what Willis can do for the rest of the season, and if he doesn't work out, guess what, we still have Travis under contract for next year.
Guest Guest Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Just reading over some of these threads, I was wondering if the majority of people on here really believe that it is a good move to hand over the starting job to McGahee, and that Henry should be on his way out? Surely, MOST people on this board cannot be that illogical. Please, give me some faith in BILLS FANS! Travis Henry has been an extraordainry NFL back the last two years, our best player during that period, and is one of the top five backs in this league. And people think we should replace him with a player who has proven....what??? Absolutely nothing and is coming off a HUGE injury. If it's true, that most people on this board believe this, what illogical people! Probably the same people who thought it was a good idea to hand Rob Johnson Millions (and the Jaguars our pick(s)) because of his two good starts. ( I said at the time it was the most illogical move in the history of this franchise. This move is right up there.) In any case, this is the same misguided, illlogical reasoning that allowed that move, which in my mind, was the beginning of a major decline. PLEASE, say it aint so! Please say that only a tiny minority are this uninformed.................................................. 92273[/snapback] I'm pondering whether you're 13 or 16 with a 13 year old mind. Here's a hint: logic does not equal simplistic superficially analysis.
Mikie2times Posted October 30, 2004 Posted October 30, 2004 Here, look just as impressive small and black:2002: 325 rushes, 1438 yards, 4.4 ypc, and 13 touchdowns 2003: 15 games, 331 carries 1356 yards, 4.1 ypc, and 10 touchdowns But this deserves to be shouted form the rooftop, so: People want to trade our most valuable player!!!!! And replace him with a completely unproven player!!!!!!!!!! Can you say, 2-14, 1-15? That logic will get us there only. (And MDH, aint nothing in your post to back yourself up--except an immature attack. I'd rather have logic and support in finger paints than none at all. None.) 92325[/snapback] For somebody that basis a player's performance on nothing else but statistics I'm surprised you have not looked at this years stats. I will put in bold multi colored font just how you like it. Travis Henry: 87 rushes 300 yards 3.4 average 0 TD's 8 receptions 35 yards 4.4 average 0 TD's Willis McGahee: 61 rushes 239 yards 3.9 average 0 TD's 6 receptions 46 yards 7.7 average 0 TD's From stats alone who has played better so far this season? A much more important intangible that you fail to even bring up is a players performance in other non statistical areas. Blitz pickups, assignment pick ups, patience, broken tackles....etc. If you have watched every game Willis has been head and shoulders above Henry in the intangibles. I'm just going to throwout some names here and no matter what method you use to rank RB's these players far exceed Travis Henry's past production and current production. L. Tomlinson P. Holmes J. Lewis S. Alexander E. James C. Dillion C. Portis F. Taylor T. Barber A. Green D. McAlister S. Davis M. Faulk How are you judging Henry as a top 5 back? All the evidence you provided was a partial statistical analysis (you failed to include Henry's fumbling problem) of the past two years. Well you might find one or two guys on this list who did not supersede Henry's stats the last two seasons, but since you value a players past performance so much those players more then make up for it in that area. I apologize if I don't grasp how illogical we are being, I will go in the corner now and put on my dunce cap.
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