McGahee doing some nifty running

[Jim in Anchorage]

Backward.

[Pirate Angel]

Backward.

I love how they give the ball to a 260 lbs fullback before Willis

[maverick544]

Dude, I am not trying to knock leron, but Willis is a much better all around back. Leron only can run str8 and is slow as heck.

[OrangeJuiceSimpson]

McGahee is a poop head

[Max997]

I love how they give the ball to a 260 lbs fullback before Willis

 

the way they have been using their backs has been working for them...they pound with McClain most of the game wearing down the defense giving McGahee more room to run in the second half

 

kind of reminds me how the Chiefs used to use Okoye and Harvey Williams...yeah, i just had a flashback to that monday nighter

[BADOLBILZ]

Backward.

 

RB's = Dime a Dozen

 

Using two #1 picks in 4 years on McGahee and Lynch are two reasons why Wilson, Jauron and their apologists can call the waahmbulance about not having enough talent elsewhere. Instead of spending THOSE millions on lineman and dimes on RB's, they did the opposite. Bravo!

 

And yeah, I know a number of successful teams have used #1 picks on RB's in recent years, but they had coaches who didn't need a waahmbulance to save their jobs.

[/dev/null]

I love how they give the ball to a 260 lbs fullback before Willis

 

What is this Fullback of which you speak? As a Bills fan I am almost as confused and unaccustomed to this strange and foreign concept as to the bewildering notion of Tight End and bizarre contraption of pressuring the QB

[Dibs]

RB's = Dime a Dozen

 

Using two #1 picks in 4 years on McGahee and Lynch are two reasons why Wilson, Jauron and their apologists can call the waahmbulance about not having enough talent elsewhere. Instead of spending THOSE millions on lineman and dimes on RB's, they did the opposite. Bravo!

 

And yeah, I know a number of successful teams have used #1 picks on RB's in recent years, but they had coaches who didn't need a waahmbulance to save their jobs.

McGahee was drafted before DJ came to Buffalo......also......it's two #1 picks in 5 years.

 

......and RBs are not a dime a dozen. Most successful teams have a 1st round RB......and most 1st round RBs bust(with later round RBs busting at a greater ratio).

 

Looking at this years playoff teams:-

IND: Addai(1st)

ATL: Turner(5th)(team busted on 1st rounder in 2002)

MIA: Brown & Williams(2x 1st)(3 if you count that RW cost them 2 in trade)

MIN: Peterson(1st)

ARI: James(1st)

TEN: Johnson(1st)

BALT: McGahee(1st)

PHIL: Westbrook(3rd)

CAR: Williams & Stewart(2x1st)

SD: Tomlinson(1st)

PIT: Parker(UDFA), Moore(4th)(Mendenhall 1st round 2008)

NYG: Jacobs(4th) & Ward(UDFA)

[Jim in Anchorage]

the way they have been using their backs has been working for them...they pound with McClain most of the game wearing down the defense giving McGahee more room to run in the second half

 

kind of reminds me how the Chiefs used to use the Okoye and Harvey Williams...yeah, i just had a flashback to that monday nighter

Look I know they won but 50 yards net rushing is NOT what I call working.

[BuffOrange]

McGahee was drafted before DJ came to Buffalo......also......it's two #1 picks in 5 years.

 

......and RBs are not a dime a dozen. Most successful teams have a 1st round RB......and most 1st round RBs bust(with later round RBs busting at a greater ratio).

 

Looking at this years playoff teams:-

IND: Addai(1st)

ATL: Turner(5th)(team busted on 1st rounder in 2002)

MIA: Brown & Williams(2x 1st)(3 if you count that RW cost them 2 in trade)

MIN: Peterson(1st)

ARI: James(1st)

TEN: Johnson(1st)

BALT: McGahee(1st)

PHIL: Westbrook(3rd)

CAR: Williams & Stewart(2x1st)

SD: Tomlinson(1st)

PIT: Parker(UDFA), Moore(4th)(Mendenhall 1st round 2008)

NYG: Jacobs(4th) & Ward(UDFA)

 

Are you taking on the Daquix role of arguing for the sake of arguing? The only position less important than RB is Safety.

[Arkady Renko]

Are you taking on the Daquix role of arguing for the sake of arguing? The only position less important than RB is Safety.

 

The Bills very well might have made bad selections by going RB, but certainly teams have done just fine drafting RBs high.

[The Dean]

McGahee was drafted before DJ came to Buffalo......also......it's two #1 picks in 5 years.

 

......and RBs are not a dime a dozen. Most successful teams have a 1st round RB......and most 1st round RBs bust(with later round RBs busting at a greater ratio).

 

Looking at this years playoff teams:-

IND: Addai(1st)

ATL: Turner(5th)(team busted on 1st rounder in 2002)

MIA: Brown & Williams(2x 1st)(3 if you count that RW cost them 2 in trade)

MIN: Peterson(1st)

ARI: James(1st)

TEN: Johnson(1st)

BALT: McGahee(1st)

PHIL: Westbrook(3rd)

CAR: Williams & Stewart(2x1st)

SD: Tomlinson(1st)

PIT: Parker(UDFA), Moore(4th)(Mendenhall 1st round 2008)

NYG: Jacobs(4th) & Ward(UDFA)

 

 

Stop with the facts, already. What are facts, anyway?

 

With that said, I think decent backs are a dime-a-dozen. And, if your offense and your offensive line, are good enough, a decent back can look great. Great backs certainly are not a dime a dozen.

[Dibs]

Are you taking on the Daquix role of arguing for the sake of arguing? The only position less important than RB is Safety.

Not at all. There seems to me to be a very large common misconception regarding RBs......I won't get into the Safety position but there is a large common misconception regarding that position also(due to historical views versus modern day changes).

 

Many people seem to have the view(like you do) that RB is one of the least important positions on the team. Regardless of how important compared to other positions RB is, it is still very important to have a good RB.

 

I'm pretty sure I know where you are coming from in your thoughts.

The concept that if you have a good OL & scheme......with a good passing game(and Defense), then a decent RB can be productive enough to see you to the Super Bowl. I agree with this. Having a legitimately good RB however adds many things(dependent on the skill set of the RB). Big play ability, gaining the extra tough yards, blocking/pass protection, pass catching, etc, etc. It also means that if your OL or passing game is not quite to the level required, the RBs own skills can counter-act those deficiencies.

 

This is why many RBs are selected in the 1st round.

To assume that it is easy to insert a RB with mediocre skills into a team & have them be competitive does not follow with a majority of teams. Most teams(by far) which make the playoffs & get to & win the SB do so with a RB that was selected in the 1st round.

 

Teams that have a good OL & RB can achieve massive production from the RB position. Peterson, Larry Johnson, Shaun Alexander, Terrell Davis etc, etc. This is highly sort after for obvious reasons.

 

It also does not hold that a mediocre RB(one who is good enough when a team has a good OL & passing game) can be easily found, as many teams who use a decent RB behind a good OL often have trouble when said RB gets injured.

 

The reality is that the skill sets required in a RB are hard to find.......and highly sought after in the NFL. The RB position has a very high bust rate in the 1st round(obviously higher in later rounds). One cannot simply 'draft a RB' and end up with a guy who can get the job done to the level required as many people seem to think.

 

 

If RB was truly one of the least important positions.....easy to find.....and easy to replace......more teams would be succeeding with 'lesser' talent......and fewer teams would be drafting them in the 1st round.

[C.Biscuit97]

Dude, I am not trying to knock leron, but Willis is a much better all around back. Leron only can run str8 and is slow as heck.

 

 

Right. That's why McClaine jsut made the pro bowl and Willis is getting cut. Did you see when Willis made a nice run on the game winning drive and ran out of bounds to stop the clock? Granted the Titans didn't benefit from it, but he allowed the Titans to save a timeout. The guy is an idiot. i know the popular thing now is to bash the Bills but what a great trade that was to get rid of Willis.

[Simon]

IND: Addai(1st)

The Colts might still be playing if they let Holmes carry the mail and use that high pick on a 'backer or trenchman.

ARI: James(1st)

Not only did Arizona not draft him, he's been standing around on the sideline most of the year.

BALT: McGahee(1st)

Is he 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart?

SD: Tomlinson(1st)

What would they ever have done without him last week?

 

 

 

So of the 12 playoff teams, only 4 of them were relying on a RB they drafted in the first round to carry the primary load on offense. And all 4 of them got beat in their first playoff game.

I'm not sure if that's really the point you wanted to make.

[Dibs]

The Colts might still be playing if they let Holmes carry the mail and use that high pick on a 'backer or trenchman.

- maybe so.....maybe not. Colts are still an example of a consistent team that sees a high importance on spending resources on 1st round RBs

 

Not only did Arizona not draft him, he's been standing around on the sideline most of the year.

- An old HOF caliber RB who was highly sought after.....and is still contributing when needed.

 

Is he 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart?

- The Ravens still placed a great importance in finding a 'good' RB......had they found one they would be a better team than they are now(obviously).

 

What would they ever have done without him last week?

-and how good have they been throughout his career when they had a decent team around him?

 

 

So of the 12 playoff teams, only 4 of them were relying on a RB they drafted in the first round to carry the primary load on offense. And all 4 of them got beat in their first playoff game.

I'm not sure if that's really the point you wanted to make.

The point I was wanting to make was that RBs are highly sought after and teams will keep searching and spending resources until they have one. They are not the unimportant easily replaceable players than many think.

[Simon]

The point I was wanting to make was that RBs are highly sought after and teams will keep searching and spending resources until they have one.

You can say that about any position in the game.

 

They are not the unimportant easily replaceable players than many think.

As primary ball-handlers I would never say they were unimportant. But I think there are only a very small handful of true impact RB's who are worth spending such a high pick on. Aside from your few special players like Peterson and Tomlinson I don't see where there's a huge drop-off from most starting backs to their relief guys.

Comparatively speaking it's not a very difficult position to fill effectively.

[Dibs]

........I don't see where there's a huge drop-off from most starting backs to their relief guys.

Comparatively speaking it's not a very difficult position to fill effectively.

This is what I see as the common misconception. NFL teams certainly don't agree with it as they regularly either draft 1st round RBs(outside of the premium top 8) or acquire said 1st rounders via trade or FA.

 

When a team has a good OL.....you are often correct in that the backup RB can come in and do a decent job(though often the offense becomes more limited due to the backups lesser skills.....perhaps it is a bit deceiving on how much they contribute compared to the starting RB.....a missed block at the wrong time, not quite getting the 1st down when needed, a breakout run, a clutch 3rd down receiving effort, etc can mean the difference between a win & a loss without it obviously showing.)......on the other hand the backup often does not perform to a good enough level......even more so when the team does not have a good OL.

 

Personally I think(due to their generally shorter playing life span) that teams in general try to acquire their good RBs too early in their team-building process.....but i can't disagree with the vast majority of NFL teams placing a high importance on the RB position. Mind you, I see football as a team sport & most positions are important......with RB(due to the number of times they have the ability to effect a play) as being one of the more important positions to be strong at if a team is going to have a good chance at success.

[BuffOrange]

As primary ball-handlers I would never say they were unimportant. But I think there are only a very small handful of true impact RB's who are worth spending such a high pick on. Aside from your few special players like Peterson and Tomlinson I don't see where there's a huge drop-off from most starting backs to their relief guys.

Comparatively speaking it's not a very difficult position to fill effectively.

 

Well said - I was going to write a longer more confusing version of this.

Peterson is special. Rank RB's 2-18 in the league (I bet you'll get 5 incredibly different looking lists when you ask 5 different people btw) and the gap between 2 and 18 is going to have a minimal impact on your win total compared to other positions.

 

Most teams (in the playoffs or not) have a back on their roster who was drafted in the 1st round. This shows that teams do in fact seek them out. That most playoff teams have them shows nothing, as most non-playoff teams do as well: Pats, Jets, Bills, Bengals, Browns, Jags, Chiefs, Raiders for sure...

 

I guess there are teams whose offensive production has seen a big drop-off with their back-up behind a decent OL exist. For every one of those examples though I can come up with 10 to the contrary.

Antoine Smith was a 1st round pick, but he was one of the worst starters in the league when the Pats won in 01 and 03. I don't think you can even name the '02 Bucs starter without looking him up. The Colts got it done with Addai in a time-share; which was the year after Edge was let go which was the year after both they and Seattle tried and failed to trade their guy for a 3rd rounder; and of course the Giants the year after Tikki retired.

 

Teams drafting them in the 1st round is one point I really can't counter. That might be an interesting case study, but I would think part of it is even the good RB's needing to be replenished at a high rate due to their incredibly short average shelf-life (a guy like Curtis Martin was freakishly durable), which is yet another thing that diminishes their value imo.

[Steely Dan]

Backward.

 

 

Are you taking on the Daquix role of arguing for the sake of arguing? The only position less important than RB is Safety.

 

You really have no clue what you're talking about do you?

 

 

Not at all. There seems to me to be a very large common misconception regarding RBs......I won't get into the Safety position but there is a large common misconception regarding that position also(due to historical views versus modern day changes).

 

Many people seem to have the view(like you do) that RB is one of the least important positions on the team. Regardless of how important compared to other positions RB is, it is still very important to have a good RB.

 

I'm pretty sure I know where you are coming from in your thoughts.

The concept that if you have a good OL & scheme......with a good passing game(and Defense), then a decent RB can be productive enough to see you to the Super Bowl. I agree with this. Having a legitimately good RB however adds many things(dependent on the skill set of the RB). Big play ability, gaining the extra tough yards, blocking/pass protection, pass catching, etc, etc. It also means that if your OL or passing game is not quite to the level required, the RBs own skills can counter-act those deficiencies.

 

This is why many RBs are selected in the 1st round.

To assume that it is easy to insert a RB with mediocre skills into a team & have them be competitive does not follow with a majority of teams. Most teams(by far) which make the playoffs & get to & win the SB do so with a RB that was selected in the 1st round.

 

Teams that have a good OL & RB can achieve massive production from the RB position. Peterson, Larry Johnson, Shaun Alexander, Terrell Davis etc, etc. This is highly sort after for obvious reasons.

 

It also does not hold that a mediocre RB(one who is good enough when a team has a good OL & passing game) can be easily found, as many teams who use a decent RB behind a good OL often have trouble when said RB gets injured.

 

The reality is that the skill sets required in a RB are hard to find.......and highly sought after in the NFL. The RB position has a very high bust rate in the 1st round(obviously higher in later rounds). One cannot simply 'draft a RB' and end up with a guy who can get the job done to the level required as many people seem to think.

 

 

If RB was truly one of the least important positions.....easy to find.....and easy to replace......more teams would be succeeding with 'lesser' talent......and fewer teams would be drafting them in the 1st round.

 

Once again Dibs great posts full of facts that people will cast aside because it doesn't fit with their realities.

 

Right. That's why McClaine jsut made the pro bowl and Willis is getting cut. Did you see when Willis made a nice run on the game winning drive and ran out of bounds to stop the clock? Granted the Titans didn't benefit from it, but he allowed the Titans to save a timeout. The guy is an idiot. i know the popular thing now is to bash the Bills but what a great trade that was to get rid of Willis.

 

It seems like you believe this is supposed to be a hard and fast rule and not a general trend.

 

The Colts might still be playing if they let Holmes carry the mail and use that high pick on a 'backer or trenchman.

 

Not only did Arizona not draft him, he's been standing around on the sideline most of the year.

 

Is he 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart?

 

What would they ever have done without him last week?

 

 

 

So of the 12 playoff teams, only 4 of them were relying on a RB they drafted in the first round to carry the primary load on offense. And all 4 of them got beat in their first playoff game.

I'm not sure if that's really the point you wanted to make.

 

Yeah, when you pick former first round backs in their waning years it really makes your argument look good, but how about talking about them during their prime? Doesn't quite make such a good argument does it.

 

Addai was injured much of this year so keep from picking guys that only make your point when they're injured and old. What about them in their primes?

 

Barry Sanders carried the Detroit Lions on his back for years. They had nothing else and IIRC they made the playoffs with him. Marshall Faulk, OJ Simpson and why do you think the Dolphins had problems when Marino was QB? They never had a great RB to go with him.