BuffaloBill Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 http://www.wned.org/features/ResurrectingBuffalo/default.asp Friday's dialogue - which began with an apology from Ed Glaeser who went on to say that Buffalo is an amazing city – truly was a clear indication of what an incredible community this is. On a Friday afternoon which was the most beautiful day in over six months, 350 people showed up to hear a Harvard University professor defend his less-than-complimentary comments about our region. That speaks volumes about our spirit and our future. I thought this was pretty interesting: Brookings report The two statistics that really jumped out for me were: Bi-national Great lakes region has second largest GDP on the globe (second only to the US as a whole). Not sure when the data was pulled together but one would assume that the rise of the BRIC nations will eventually modify this status. 41% of all advanced degrees (Canada and US combined) come from the region. Amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 You realize that NYC contributes more in tax dollars to NYS than it gets back, right? I left NY State when Hugh Carey promised NOT to raise taxes to bail out NYC. I kept my residency there, until I was stationed in South Dakota which doesn't have an income tax. When I attempted to change residencies mid year, NY State decided they needed my income more than I, and refused to refund the money I didn't owe. If the Legislature wanted to fix the state, they could. Cut off NYC, make it a district much like Washington D.C and be done with it. Let them rot in their garbage and corruption, but it is very unlikely that cronyism will change much in the future. Hell, even arrogant politicians like Carolyn Kennedy didn't know a thing about the blight of western NY, or have any idea on how to fix it. By the Way, when the did the governors start residing in NYC, and not in Albany? I thought they loved it up there in Nelson Rockefeller land? All the beautiful abandoned buildings. That might be when the state started on the decline, spending billions to build a ghost town. I live in Minneapolis, and its true, they changed their identity and it took off. We pay a pretty good tax here ourselves, but the legislature isn't as corrupt spending it. They don't have 6.5 million NYC voters telling them what they need, while the rest of the state suffers. It's the squeeky wheel syndrome. You guys are left in the dark, while the money you earn is spent on someone else. One suggestion, is get Iran to nuke NYC, and the problem is fixed, at least temporarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless Ike Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Already considered and enacted into law: Great Lakes Basin Compact BTW - your other comment about Atlanta nearly running out of water is also a fact. News story The Great Lakes Basin Compact is such a crock of sh--. It would be a full-scale international incident with Canada if the US ever diverted huge amounts of water from the Lakes to the interior of the country. It would never ever happen. There's been a treaty barring such a move for the better part of the century. Like most actions of the federal government it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless Ike Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 You realize that NYC contributes more in tax dollars to NYS than it gets back, right? You realize what depressed regions need is a business friendly environment, not more tax dollars for the pigs at the trough to feed on, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 You realize what depressed regions need is a business friendly environment, not more tax dollars for the pigs at the trough to feed on, right? Sure, but a very different issue. NYC does not have any trouble attracting lots of business... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Good article? More like, depressing article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 You realize that NYC contributes more in tax dollars to NYS than it gets back, right? Indeed. Which is why the Wall Street melt down is going to hurt so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Sure, but a very different issue. NYC does not have any trouble attracting lots of business... Neither does Niagara Falls, Ontario. I have heard the tax argument used over and over, for why WNY (and specifically, Niagara Falls) can't attract new business. Yet, right across the border, Niagara Falls Ontario seems to have no problem. How does that work? Are the taxes in Ontario, Canada that much cheaper than NYS? Is Ontario giving businesses huge tax breaks to come to Lundy's Lane and open shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Neither does Niagara Falls, Ontario. I have heard the tax argument used over and over, for why WNY (and specifically, Niagara Falls) can't attract new business. Yet, right across the border, Niagara Falls Ontario seems to have no problem. How does that work? Are the taxes in Ontario, Canada that much cheaper than NYS? Is Ontario giving businesses huge tax breaks to come to Lundy's Lane and open shop? At the end of the day taxes are just another expense to a business. They have to be considered in combination with other factors when any individual business is looking at whther they will move to or open in a given location. Buffalo (WNY) has also had a notoriously bad labor situation. WNY has also failed to move to a "thinking" based economy quickly enough to stave off the loss of jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 At the end of the day taxes are just another expense to a business. They have to be considered in combination with other factors when any individual business is looking at whther they will move to or open in a given location. Buffalo (WNY) has also had a notoriously bad labor situation. WNY has also failed to move to a "thinking" based economy quickly enough to stave off the loss of jobs. WNY has a low cost of living, skilled labor (traditional workforce) and several good universities and colleges that can serve as a supply source for any "thinking" based economy. How is the Buffalo labor market considered to be "notoriously bad"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 WNY has a low cost of living, skilled labor (traditional workforce) and several good universities and colleges that can serve as a supply source for any "thinking" based economy. How is the Buffalo labor market considered to be "notoriously bad"? Funny how things change ... when I left there back in the late 80's WNY was known as a higher cost of living area. The labor situation I referred to is the fact that the strong union base jn WNY helped to run a lot of manufacturing out of the area. In some ways that is a moot point now because any labor intensive manufacturing is likely already or about to go overseas anyway. You are right that WNY lsuffers brain drain as they allow significant numbers of people to be educated in colleges there only to go elsewhere to live and work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Step one would be to consolidate the city and villages into a county-wide metropolitan government, and eliminate all the duplication of services. Every time I see or hear a government employee union crying about some gross injustice against their oppressed workforce I feel like telling them to go get a real job and then see if I give a sh--. PTR I always thought Buffalo would recieve more from the government if it had more people under the name City of Buffalo Everything from South buffalo north should be Buffalo This basically includes Cheektowaga, Amherst, williamsville, Kenmore Most of the people living in these towns work in downtown office buildings but spend their money at the malls and store outside the city. If everything was together i'm sure there would be less government to pay, less taxes,a bigger and better police force, fire,schools, other city services. Separate does not make a region better. If I was on the waterfront action team, I would do things different 1. Bass Pro to me would only work as the headline store at an open air downtown Mall. The Mall downtown is not even a Mall for Christ sake. I think that is why they are scarred about building a Store by itself. no supporting store like Walmart, Kmart or A major Dollar store to help feed people to it 2. Instead on focusing on Buffalo's past aim for the future, reminding everybody that the early 1900's was the citys prime wont sell to tourists 3. You have enough land to build a downtown open air Mall. 4. You DO NOT need a casino downtown. The local wallets would not support it for long anyway. BUT I would since the Senecas already have land downtown , I would ask them to build a open air skating rink like they have in NYC. I think I know some Canadians that like to skate EH?? AS a concession they would be allowed to build a Smokin joes type gas station where they would be allowed to sell cigs at thier price but not the gas since it would kill off the nearby gas stations. You could leave the standing casino where it is. Its big enough 5. The Skyway has to come down !!!! People dont even see what you have to offer if you drive over it as oppose to driving on land. Besides it would create jobs for a project that would last years and it would open up more waterfront space 6. An entertainment park like Darien Lake in Downtown Buffalo. Dont tell me you dont have the space and parking because you do and it would be seen from the I-90 an instant tourist spot. Bottom line is you have to rebuild the region from inside out. Not outside in PS Local taxes is killing this city...Garbage fee is a joke and should be gotten rid of yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 This was discussed in depth over at Buffalo Rising a couple months ago when it first came out. Buffalo can stabilize only if albany takes the shackles off. High taxes & business unfriendly means a slow whirl down the drain... Buffalo can return to national prominence only following some drastic nationwide change. For instance, massive drought due to climate change means population centers need to move much closer to large bodies of water...that would be an instant rust belt revitalization. The take away lesson is really to vote the incumbents out of office at every level of city, county, and state government until we get a group of wahoos who want to do more than line their and their chosen constituency's pockets I know there is truth in the fact that WNY is burdoned some by downstate (specifically NYC and Long Island), however, the structure of city and country government combined with years of corruption in both arean's has as much to do with WNY's situation as do it's ties to the Metro areas the State government focuses on. Enough blaming others for the current situation - WNY has dysfunctional government and sorry for themselves citizens that need to get over it and do something about it....Shackles off...listen Kunta Kinte - it starts with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 there's always a lot of self-righteous fingerpointing whenever these kinds of threads pop up, and a lot of knee-jerk solutions. i find it funny that, apparently, every single politician elected in western new york since about 1950 has been a liar, thief and an incompetent. if that's true, then western new yorkers can find the solution to the problem by looking in the mirror, right? i think the region is as much a victim of circumstance as anything. you can blame elected leaders for lacking the vision to plan for what has happened, but i don't think that would make them any different than 99% of all the politicians in this country. and i don't doubt some bad decisions were made along the way, but WNYs decline is something that, more than anything, has been a slow-gathering storm from the moment manufacturing started to decline. and it came about due to forces that were bigger than any mayor, governor or senator that has represented new york state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Funny how things change ... when I left there back in the late 80's WNY was known as a higher cost of living area. The labor situation I referred to is the fact that the strong union base jn WNY helped to run a lot of manufacturing out of the area. In some ways that is a moot point now because any labor intensive manufacturing is likely already or about to go overseas anyway. You are right that WNY lsuffers brain drain as they allow significant numbers of people to be educated in colleges there only to go elsewhere to live and work. The brain drain is a problem at both ends; it weakens WNY, and it artificially inflates the quality of communities in the south that historically underfund their own educational systems, but attract smart folks and investment from elsewhere then pat themselves on the back for their low taxes.... That demographic Ponzi scheme is in danger of falling apart now that those southern states who relied on their low wages to attract business (such as South Carolina, where I once lived) find that those jobs can just as easily head off somewhere even cheaper, and that the flow of "damn Yankees" could easily be diverted in other directions.... That is a subject for a long discussion of its own, but it needs to be considered every time someone waxes rhapsodic about how much lower taxes are in the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Just got through the most recent issue of SI - I am tagging this article by Mitch Albom as I think it runs distinct parallels to WNY and this topic - the good and the bad. It's a very good read, take the time to read it....I find myself oddly pulling for Detroit now... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...roit/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Buffalo, and the area around it, is doing better right now than at any other point in the last thirty years. It's going to be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 You realize what depressed regions need is a business friendly environment, not more tax dollars for the pigs at the trough to feed on, right? Isn't this argument the same as large market sporting teams forrowing monies to the small market one's? Should we get rid of the Giants and Cowboys to generate more wealth for the Bills? I think it is a far more complex problem than most on this board are qualified to offer much more than an empassioned opinion on because you care about your city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Buffalo, and the area around it, is doing better right now than at any other point in the last thirty years. It's going to be fine. really? that's a nice thing to say. but... based on what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Isn't this argument the same as large market sporting teams forrowing monies to the small market one's? Should we get rid of the Giants and Cowboys to generate more wealth for the Bills? I think it is a far more complex problem than most on this board are qualified to offer much more than an empassioned opinion on because you care about your city. I don't think we're questioning "qualified." But all of us have roots in Buffalo and most of us have had to leave for economic reasons that were/are very real. Having left Buffalo, over time, many have had opportunities to return, and after weighing all facts, decided it would not be in our best interests to do so. Unfortunately, both for WNY, and for the people who would have returned, the tax issues will not diminish and without any long term economic incentive. the area will likely not improve. It was a good article. Most people on this board will try to fit their own personal story/situations into the presentation and research that have been presented. Hopefully, Buffalo can indeed "come back." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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