Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Building a new stadium near Niagara falls is something Jimbo and I have been preaching about for awhile now, the most important aspect of being closer to the Canadian border is the increase in revenues it would bring to the organization. More money in gives you more money to spend, better coaching and more FA's equals playoffs and playoffs brings in more money. OF COURSE JIM KELLY IS RIGHT, ITS A WIN, WIN SITUATION. Please explain this to me.... You claim that being closer to the border will bring more revenues, HOWEVER, you fail to account for PAYING for an $800,000,000 stadium vs the FREE Ralph Wilson Stadium. The Bills currently sell out most to or close to MOST games now. PLEASE explain to me where your "INCREASED REVENUES" idea has ANY validity.... Jim does NOT have a clue. HE threw footballs for a living. Thomas Golisano has a clue he build a BILLION dollar business from his garage. For all of you who THINK the Bills will have a new stadium, im sorry to piss on your snowman but it will NEVER happen. SORRY, END OF STORY. We cant even build one here in Atlanta where we have 20 times the people (6 million) whos earning per capita average is 4 times higher than Buffalo. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!
Guest dog14787 Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Please explain this to me.... You claim that being closer to the border will bring more revenues, HOWEVER, you fail to account for PAYING for an $800,000,000 stadium vs the FREE Ralph Wilson Stadium. The Bills currently sell out most to or close to MOST games now. PLEASE explain to me where your "INCREASED REVENUES" idea has ANY validity.... Jim does NOT have a clue. HE threw footballs for a living. Thomas Golisano has a clue he build a BILLION dollar business from his garage. For all of you who THINK the Bills will have a new stadium, im sorry to piss on your snowman but it will NEVER happen. SORRY, END OF STORY. We cant even build one here in Atlanta where we have 20 times the people (6 million) whos earning per capita average is 4 times higher than Buffalo. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN! Did you happen to see what folks in Canada are willing to pay for tickets at the Toronto game? How do you even pretend to know what another country is capable of and then you use Atlanta of all places as a comparison. I lived in and around Atlanta for years and its a rat race, good grief. Folks come from all over the world to see Niagara Falls which makes it a huge selling feature for anything in the vicinity. We have struggled keeping pace with our fellow Canadians when it comes to development and a New stadium would be a big step in the right direction in my opinion.
The_Philster Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 tax money for tickets as well as money to restaurants right near the stadium all stays in Erie County, NY (after the state gets their share of the tax money, of course) Putting in a stadium in Niagara Falls moves that money out of Erie County into Niagara County...it does keep it in NYS, at least. If Giants stadium were in NYS instead of NJ, maybe we wouldn't have the budget deficit we do now because more money would be going to NYS as opposed to NJ Anyway, as has been stated, where's the money for this new stadium going to come from? We have a perfectly good stadium already standing that's bought and paid for (could use a few restroom upgrades, maybe) and is getting money put into it on a yearly basis by the state and local governments as it is.
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Did you happen to see what folks in Canada are willing to pay for tickets at the Toronto game? How do you even pretend to know what another country is capable of and then you use Atlanta of all places as a comparison. I lived in and around Atlanta for years and its a rat race, good grief. GOOD GRIEF? Did u see that the game in TO never sold out? Do you think the CANADIANS would pay for 8 games at those prices lol? You still havent given us your therory of how the bills would pay for the 800M dollar stadium... Back up your statement with something other than your simple speculations please!
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 References to urination on snowmen aside ( ), Steve makes an excellent point. I have a hard time imagining 800 million dollar building projects for football stadia anywhere in WNY.... As other posters have said, a Lambeau-style remodel of the Ralph seems more sensible, though it would also be very costly. Please explain this to me.... You claim that being closer to the border will bring more revenues, HOWEVER, you fail to account for PAYING for an $800,000,000 stadium vs the FREE Ralph Wilson Stadium. The Bills currently sell out most to or close to MOST games now. PLEASE explain to me where your "INCREASED REVENUES" idea has ANY validity.... Jim does NOT have a clue. HE threw footballs for a living. Thomas Golisano has a clue he build a BILLION dollar business from his garage. For all of you who THINK the Bills will have a new stadium, im sorry to piss on your snowman but it will NEVER happen. SORRY, END OF STORY. We cant even build one here in Atlanta where we have 20 times the people (6 million) whos earning per capita average is 4 times higher than Buffalo. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 tax money for tickets as well as money to restaurants right near the stadium all stays in Erie County, NY (after the state gets their share of the tax money, of course)Putting in a stadium in Niagara Falls moves that money out of Erie County into Niagara County...it does keep it in NYS, at least. If Giants stadium were in NYS instead of NJ, maybe we wouldn't have the budget deficit we do now because more money would be going to NYS as opposed to NJ Anyway, as has been stated, where's the money for this new stadium going to come from? We have a perfectly good stadium already standing that's bought and paid for (could use a few restroom upgrades, maybe) and is getting money put into it on a yearly basis by the state and local governments as it is. Im not picking on all of y'all but tax money for tickets? lets say you taxed EACH ticket $40.00 for a NEW $800M 60,000 seat stadium in Niagara Falls. It would take 40 YEARS to pay off that stadium. IF we kept every penny of tax money. You want to add to the economy and the validity of this stadium idea by adding restaurants? Why havent restaurants and other attractions been built around our CURRENT stadium? It wont support it there so why do you think it would work in the NF area? Yall need to think about what youre saying before you sat it and back it up with fact.
The_Philster Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 apparently you missed the point of my post....besides the fact that my post clearly argues against the idea of a new stadium...as far as restaurants around the stadium, there ARE a bunch around it already
The Dean Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Anyway, as has been stated, where's the money for this new stadium going to come from? We have a perfectly good stadium already standing that's bought and paid for (could use a few restroom upgrades, maybe) and is getting money put into it on a yearly basis by the state and local governments as it is. Two years ago, I would have said that, in order to keep the Bills in Buffalo, after Ralph passes, there had to be a new stadium attached. Given the recent economic changes in the country, I think that is far less likely, and less necessary. I simply don't think there are other desirable locations who are anxious to spend the $$ necessary to subsidize an NFL team, at this moment in time. As the economy changes, the necessity for a new stadium may change, as well. Right now, a plan to refurbish The Ralph is probably the best route, IMO. Is there anyway they can do it in phases, and allow for the Bills to play their schedule (or at least the bulk of it) there, instead of at another facility?
The_Philster Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Two years ago, I would have said that, in order to keep the Bills in Buffalo, after Ralph passes, there had to be a new stadium attached. Given the recent economic changes in the country, I think that is far less likely, and less necessary. I simply don't think there are other desirable locations who are anxious to spend the $$ necessary to subsidize an NFL team, at this moment in time. As the economy changes, the necessity for a new stadium may change, as well. Right now, a plan to refurbish The Ralph is probably the best route, IMO. Is there anyway they can do it in phases, and allow for the Bills to play their schedule (or at least the bulk of it) there, instead of at another facility? I don't see why not. The stadium gets little usage from January to July. Even if a miracle happened and we went deep into the playoffs, that's still February to July...or even mid August...6-7 months is plenty of time to get a lot of work done. Hell, they got a lot done in the offseason following the 1998 season when they made the last batch of upgrades. Upgrading the current stadium makes a lot more sense in the long run, anyway. I don't recall exactly how much that last batch of upgrades cost, but I know it was less than $50M. But for arguments sake, let's say it was for $50M. If we put $50M worth of upgrades into the stadium every 10 years, it would take 160 years for it to reach the $800M it would cost for a new stadium entirely. If we put up a new $800M stadium, is it going to last 160 years without upgrades? I don't see it...especially since the talk is about replacing a stadium that's only about 36 years old
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 I don't see why not. The stadium gets little usage from January to July. Even if a miracle happened and we went deep into the playoffs, that's still February to July...or even mid August...6-7 months is plenty of time to get a lot of work done. Hell, they got a lot done in the offseason following the 1998 season when they made the last batch of upgrades. Upgrading the current stadium makes a lot more sense in the long run, anyway. I don't recall exactly how much that last batch of upgrades cost, but I know it was less than $50M. But for arguments sake, let's say it was for $50M. If we put $50M worth of upgrades into the stadium every 10 years, it would take 160 years for it to reach the $800M it would cost for a new stadium entirely. If we put up a new $800M stadium, is it going to last 160 years without upgrades? I don't see it...especially since the talk is about replacing a stadium that's only about 36 years old Perfect! Now your backing up your plan with facts! I like it! When do we start???
Guest dog14787 Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Im not picking on all of y'all but tax money for tickets? lets say you taxed EACH ticket $40.00 for a NEW $800M 60,000 seat stadium in Niagara Falls. It would take 40 YEARS to pay off that stadium. IF we kept every penny of tax money. You want to add to the economy and the validity of this stadium idea by adding restaurants? Why havent restaurants and other attractions been built around our CURRENT stadium? It wont support it there so why do you think it would work in the NF area? Yall need to think about what youre saying before you sat it and back it up with fact. My thoughts are more on a Dome to be successful because a Dome can be utilized for more than just football games, but the reasons why a business venture succeeds or fails are endless, being closer to the border allows us to cater to a higher income clientele and it also allows us to use Niagara Falls as a selling feature. Higher ticket prices brings in more money and if we built a Dome near the falls it would make a great site for a future Superbowl.
The Dean Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 My thoughts are more on a Dome to be successful because a Dome can be utilized for more than just football games, but the reasons why a business venture succeeds or fails are endless, being closer to the border allows us to cater to a higher income clientele and it also allows us to use Niagara Falls as a selling feature. Higher ticket prices brings in more money and if we built a Dome near the falls it would make a great site for a future Superbowl. Fuc# a dome! We don't need no stinking dome.
Guest dog14787 Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Fuc# a dome! We don't need no stinking dome. TE/MITTENS
The Dean Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 TE/MITTENS Easier to axe TE and get another QB, that isn't afraid of the elements, than it is to build a dome. You don't change your stadium to accommodate individual players. BTW, Trent played pretty well in the cold in Denver and, from what I saw and was told, didn't wear a glove on his throwing hand. I can't figure out why he decided to go back to the crutch for the finale in Buffalo. The glove does NOT seem to be his friend.
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 My thoughts are more on a Dome to be successful because a Dome can be utilized for more than just football games, but the reasons why a business venture succeeds or fails are endless, being closer to the border allows us to cater to a higher income clientele and it also allows us to use Niagara Falls as a selling feature. Higher ticket prices brings in more money and if we built a Dome near the falls it would make a great site for a future Superbowl. Dog, please back up your dome therory with fact. 1st, no one wants a dome in buffalo other than the teams that come play the Bills. Heres the events that Lucas Oil has for the next year Sat Jan 24 2009 Monster Jam Wed Jan 28 2009 CITGO Marketer Meeting Fri Feb 27 2009 Indiana Association of Orthodontist Annual Meeting Sat Feb 28 2009 Supercross Sat Mar 7 2009 IHSAA Girls State Finals Fri Mar 27 - Mar 29 2009 2009 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Regional Thu Apr 16 2009 IEHA Spring Conference Thu Apr 23 - Apr 25 2009 Fire Department Instructors Conference (FDIC LOS) Thu Aug 6 - Aug 8 2009 DCI World Championships Lets say that each event "netted" 250K and we were able to attract 10 events thats 2.5 million a year in "other" revenue add "your tax" 20M year Raise tickets at an average of $20 a ticket or 20M a year still takes almost 20 years to pay it off... Heres an interesting article about "issues" lucas oil stadium is having with potential events... http://www.indy.com/posts/can-ihsaa-finals...ay-in-lucas-oil
TheLynchTrain Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 I dont see how Niagara Falls is that much closer than it would be to build a stadium in downtown buffalo. Google maps says its like 5 min difference from downtown Toronto to buffalo vs niagara falls. Sure, the sight lines for a stadium in Niagara Falls would be cool, but if they were ever able to build a stadium, I think it would need to be built downtown. The only question: Would tailgating be the same? My guess is no, but I think we could make it work.
Guest dog14787 Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Easier to axe TE and get another QB, that isn't afraid of the elements, than it is to build a dome. You don't change your stadium to accommodate individual players. BTW, Trent played pretty well in the cold in Denver and, from what I saw and was told, didn't wear a glove on his throwing hand. I can't figure out why he decided to go back to the crutch for the finale in Buffalo. The glove does NOT seem to be his friend. No, you build a dome to accommodate everyone so the fans fannys can stay nice and comfy just like yours does in Florida.
Guest dog14787 Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Dog, please back up your dome therory with fact. 1st, no one wants a dome in buffalo other than the teams that come play the Bills. Heres the events that Lucas Oil has for the next year Sat Jan 24 2009 Monster Jam Wed Jan 28 2009 CITGO Marketer Meeting Fri Feb 27 2009 Indiana Association of Orthodontist Annual Meeting Sat Feb 28 2009 Supercross Sat Mar 7 2009 IHSAA Girls State Finals Fri Mar 27 - Mar 29 2009 2009 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Regional Thu Apr 16 2009 IEHA Spring Conference Thu Apr 23 - Apr 25 2009 Fire Department Instructors Conference (FDIC LOS) Thu Aug 6 - Aug 8 2009 DCI World Championships Lets say that each event "netted" 250K and we were able to attract 10 events thats 2.5 million a year in "other" revenue add "your tax" 20M year Raise tickets at an average of $20 a ticket or 20M a year still takes almost 20 years to pay it off... Heres an interesting article about "issues" lucas oil stadium is having with potential events... http://www.indy.com/posts/can-ihsaa-finals...ay-in-lucas-oil Facts? what facts are you giving me that supports your theory a new stadium isn't going to happen because all I see is your opinion and I think you are wrong.
Hammered a Lot Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Facts? what facts are you giving me that supports your theory a new stadium isn't going to happen because all I see is your opinion and I think you are wrong. http://www.fieldofschemes.com/
BuffaloBill Posted January 10, 2009 Author Posted January 10, 2009 Im not picking on all of y'all but tax money for tickets? lets say you taxed EACH ticket $40.00 for a NEW $800M 60,000 seat stadium in Niagara Falls. It would take 40 YEARS to pay off that stadium. IF we kept every penny of tax money. You want to add to the economy and the validity of this stadium idea by adding restaurants? Why havent restaurants and other attractions been built around our CURRENT stadium? It wont support it there so why do you think it would work in the NF area? Yall need to think about what youre saying before you sat it and back it up with fact. For Comparison: Arlington, TX is financing Jerry Jones' Taj Mahal through additional sales tax, an increased hotel tax and higher rental car taxes. The city antes up $325 million and the NFL is kicking in another 150 million. In combination this is supposed to cover about half of the construction costs (under the original estimates it would have covered more than half) and then Jones covers the rest. The only way those numbers work in WNY is if there is a huge and unforseen change in the economy (not likely) or if a new stadium has the effect of pulling Canadian corporate money acress the border for PSA's and tickets (also not likely). After reading the posts in this thread I would have to agree that an overhaul of the Ralph is probably the only likely scenario. Unfortunately, I also see that the success of the Toronto series is probably important to keeping the Bills in Buffalo. I think it sucks from a fan standpoint but purely from a business perspective it makes sense.
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