damj Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 You have to look at it historically. The American side was industrial... That is what we did with it. The only thing that saved it from being a total cesspool and from total unscrupulous industrial/commercial exploitation was designating the State Park... I think it was one of the first in the country?? Just imagine what an ecological disaster (you think it is bad now) NF, New York would be if things were allowed to run rampant and checked especially early on at the start of the 1900's. As New York being the "industrial side", what do you do with those brownfields now? The path was chosen so many years ago. Thank God it was tempered to a certain extent (the park)... In a sick way, be lucky for what we have... Again, imagine what that place would have looked... At least the land is semi-nonpolluted... Exactly ... Read Pierre Burton's Book "Niagara" ... though it's written more about the canadian side, it shows how we developed more on the industrial side and canada focused more on tourism. Now that the industry dried up, we need to take stock of what is left and redevelop for tourism. Unfortunately, the (unelected) powers that be that run the city and the out-of-state land developers sitting on prime property waiting to make a killing if non-indian gambling ever happens have killed any chance to capitalize on anything. For crying out loud, the poor guy who used to own the ice cream shop by the Rainbow Bridge had to fought the city for years to build a hot dog stand. A stadium in Niagara Falls, while it would be GREAT, will NEVER happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Exactly ... Read Pierre Burton's Book "Niagara" ... though it's written more about the canadian side, it shows how we developed more on the industrial side and canada focused more on tourism. Now that the industry dried up, we need to take stock of what is left and redevelop for tourism. Unfortunately, the (unelected) powers that be that run the city and the out-of-state land developers sitting on prime property waiting to make a killing if non-indian gambling ever happens have killed any chance to capitalize on anything. For crying out loud, the poor guy who used to own the ice cream shop by the Rainbow Bridge had to fought the city for years to build a hot dog stand. A stadium in Niagara Falls, while it would be GREAT, will NEVER happen. thats why it needs to be east of the city on the REZ. OF COURSE NF could never handle a project like that in the city.As you say only NF NY could turn one of the worlds biggest tourist attractions into a bombed out slum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 The only bad thing is that Oil factory or whatever that thing is in Niagara Falls, thats smell is nasty when you are heading into the falls..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostsOfTheRockpile Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Some of you need a refresher in stadium economics. The Colts just built a retractable roof stadium for over $800 million (budgeted in the $700 million range, but many reports about cost overruns have the final cost extending beyond $800 million) in a right to work state. In New Jersey - a union state like New York - the Jets and Giants are building an open air stadium for over a billion. A new open air stadium in WNY - even one stripped of the bells and whistles and ultra-luxurious amenities the Jets and Giants are likely to include - would still cost in the $700 million range or so. You cannot compare a new stadium built in today's economy to one's in Pittsburgh, Cincy or Cleveland built an economic lifetime ago. Energy costs have risen. Access to capital has severely constricted. The price of steel in the global market has skyrocketed. Not to mention the fact anything in the cities of Buffalo or Niagara Falls is going to include major demolition and utilities work. Anything with a retractable roof is going to cost near a billion clams. The best bet for the Bills is a Lambeau Field-like overhaul of the Ralph. I'm not talking about spending $10 million here or $20 million there like they have in the past... I'm talking a $300-$400 million overhaul of the stadium. Concourses, A/V, club levels, replace many benches with actual seats - lowering capacity and increasing demand, renovating each and every suite with modern amenities... the list goes on. If they were to build a brand new stadium, they're better off building in the lot just north of The Ralph. The infrastructure is already there and it wouldn't create a white elephant downtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgang Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 QUOTE (damj @ Jan 9 2009, 08:20 AM) Exactly ... Read Pierre Burton's Book "Niagara" ... though it's written more about the canadian side, it shows how we developed more on the industrial side and canada focused more on tourism. Now that the industry dried up, we need to take stock of what is left and redevelop for tourism. Unfortunately, the (unelected) powers that be that run the city and the out-of-state land developers sitting on prime property waiting to make a killing if non-indian gambling ever happens have killed any chance to capitalize on anything. For crying out loud, the poor guy who used to own the ice cream shop by the Rainbow Bridge had to fought the city for years to build a hot dog stand. A stadium in Niagara Falls, while it would be GREAT, will NEVER happen. thats why it needs to be east of the city on the REZ. OF COURSE NF could never handle a project like that in the city.As you say only NF NY could turn one of the worlds biggest tourist attractions into a bombed out slum. I know this is completely off topic, but thanks for the book reference. When my wife and I come home to WNY to visit my mom, we often go to Niagara on the Lake and some of the vineyards around there (there is a cool English pub that we always eat at- great food, can't remember the name). It is like night and day compared to the U.S. side and we always wonder- why? I think the area, like a lot of WNY, has a ton of potential that just hasn't been tapped- the area just seems to have taken a severe pounding over the heavy industrial "boom" years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 It's really to bad that politics is not fair. If NY State provided as much money to WNY as they did to NYC for a new stadium, one could probably be built. BTW, didn't NYS put up all of that $ for a stadium to attract the olympics? How is that going? As far as a retractable roof goes, doesn't the NFL have rules on when the roof must be closed? i.e. if the temperature is below 40 degrees or there is a 75% chance of rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 thats why it needs to be east of the city on the REZ. OF COURSE NF could never handle a project like that in the city.As you say only NF NY could turn one of the worlds biggest tourist attractions into a bombed out slum. Florida was able to turn a swamp into a world class tourist attraction ... Niagara Falls turned a world class tourist attraction into a slum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 With the federal govt putting so much money into jobs with the new economic plan it may be that they will be doing some WPA funding of major projects in economically depressed areas. This sounds like an ideal one. Assuming a new stadium has to be built, Niagara sounds like a good choice. May make UB's entry into the Big East more feasible as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I know this is completely off topic, but thanks for the book reference. When my wife and I come home to WNY to visit my mom, we often go to Niagara on the Lake and some of the vineyards around there (there is a cool English pub that we always eat at- great food, can't remember the name). It is like night and day compared to the U.S. side and we always wonder- why? I think the area, like a lot of WNY, has a ton of potential that just hasn't been tapped- the area just seems to have taken a severe pounding over the heavy industrial "boom" years. English Pub ... The Buttery? They do a Henry the 8th themed dinner show that is a blast. Next time you're there ... look for Piccards Nut Shop ... it's a little outside of the village, but it's awesome! The U.S. side was always strong in industry thanks to the cheap hydro power ... especially in aluminum and chemical manufacturing which are very energy intensive. Tourism was always a few extra bucks in the summer, but the city never had to rely on it. Also, there was a very strong mafia presence, but everyone had good jobs, so evertone was happy. After the Schoellkopf power station (which provided the cheap power) collapsed, the new Robert Moses station was built and the local power rates went up and negated the cheap power advantage. In the 70s, there were widespread shifts in manufacturing from northen towns to the south and Niagara Falls was hit hard. Now, instead of developing our tourism, everyone is fighting to hold on to whatever piece of the pie that they can and squash any attempts to redevelop. Business climate is now so tainted and difficult that few even try any more. It's a shame, the city gets 10 to 12 million tourists a year on name recognition alone. Making money here should be sooo easy ... but it's not. Sad ... sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mularkey Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Some of you need a refresher in stadium economics. The Colts just built a retractable roof stadium for over $800 million (budgeted in the $700 million range, but many reports about cost overruns have the final cost extending beyond $800 million) in a right to work state. In New Jersey - a union state like New York - the Jets and Giants are building an open air stadium for over a billion. A new open air stadium in WNY - even one stripped of the bells and whistles and ultra-luxurious amenities the Jets and Giants are likely to include - would still cost in the $700 million range or so. You cannot compare a new stadium built in today's economy to one's in Pittsburgh, Cincy or Cleveland built an economic lifetime ago. Energy costs have risen. Access to capital has severely constricted. The price of steel in the global market has skyrocketed. Not to mention the fact anything in the cities of Buffalo or Niagara Falls is going to include major demolition and utilities work. Anything with a retractable roof is going to cost near a billion clams. The best bet for the Bills is a Lambeau Field-like overhaul of the Ralph. I'm not talking about spending $10 million here or $20 million there like they have in the past... I'm talking a $300-$400 million overhaul of the stadium. Concourses, A/V, club levels, replace many benches with actual seats - lowering capacity and increasing demand, renovating each and every suite with modern amenities... the list goes on. If they were to build a brand new stadium, they're better off building in the lot just north of The Ralph. The infrastructure is already there and it wouldn't create a white elephant downtown. I would have to agree with you on this. As much as it sounds good to build a new stadium in the falls or downtown the Ralph is fine and the infrastructure around it is pretty good. Chicago did a nice job fixing up Soldier field and honestly the Ralph and the lots around the Ralph have some of the best tailgating anywhere. If you move the stadium most likely parking garages will be built, cost more and suck for tailgating. The Bills need to hang on to the tailgating atmosphere no matter what they do because over the past 10 years the festivities outside the Ralph have been much more entertaining then the games inside. I'm from Rochester and do not mind the drive over to the Ralph. I think Canadians would like to have it closer but I do not think it is the deciding factor in going to the games. Besides, season tickets are high and sell outs are pretty common, the team needs corporate revenue or just make the playoffs every year and win a Superbowl and then they will be all set for like 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Florida was able to turn a swamp into a world class tourist attraction ... Niagara Falls turned a world class tourist attraction into a slum. I think weather has spmething to do with that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 The best bet for the Bills is a Lambeau Field-like overhaul of the Ralph. I'm not talking about spending $10 million here or $20 million there like they have in the past... I'm talking a $300-$400 million overhaul of the stadium. Concourses, A/V, club levels, replace many benches with actual seats - lowering capacity and increasing demand, renovating each and every suite with modern amenities... the list goes on. If they were to build a brand new stadium, they're better off building in the lot just north of The Ralph. The infrastructure is already there and it wouldn't create a white elephant downtown. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiew Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I'm surprised no one has mentioned the terrible bottleneck it would be to get across the Grand Island bridges for a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profile Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Florida was able to turn a swamp into a world class tourist attraction ... Niagara Falls turned a world class tourist attraction into a slum. Best statement about the Niagara falls reagion I have ever read. On topic though, Aside from the fancy concourses and indoor merchandise shopping plazas of the newer stadiums, Ralph wilson stadium is still a very well laid out facility, it's still very easily accessible, and most of the seats are on par with the best outdoor stadiums. I have been to most of the newest stadiums in the NFL now, St. Louis, Tampa, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Houston, and Chicago. Honestly, Sitting in the Ralph, and the ease in which you can get around the stadium once inside the gates ranks with the best. I guess my point is I really don't see a need for a new stadium at all, but that's not to say I wouldn't love to see one built in downtown Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 We could all feel the love at LOVE CANAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I think weather has spmething to do with that lol I say screw niagara falls... That needs to be developed seperatly as it is a "feature" that doesnt need the NFL to build. I agree that Niagara Falls needs attention, however a stadium isnt the answer. I support building a stadium on the waterfront of buffalo somewhere near or on where the "Pier" used to be or where the skyway is currently. Theres plenty of unused property there. I say a retractable roof would be in order simply for the reason of attracting a superbowl, bowl game, concerts ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I'm surprised no one has mentioned the terrible bottleneck it would be to get across the Grand Island bridges for a game. Traffic has been mentioned in other threads on this topic, and touched on here, too. If the stadium were built in downtown NF, the traffic situation would be horrible, with the current road situation. NF Blvd is the only major alternative to Grand Island, from Buffalo. There are several country roads that lead to NF, but they would bottle neck into Lewiston Road/Main st. The Rainbow Bridge is ill equipped to handle that much Canadian traffic, but the Lewiston Queenston Bridge is available, and the traffic there would probably clog the Robert Moses Parkway. Any downtown project in NF would require major road construction and repair. Of course, a stadium will never be built in NF, so it isn't much of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I say screw niagara falls... That needs to be developed seperatly as it is a "feature" that doesnt need the NFL to build. I agree that Niagara Falls needs attention, however a stadium isnt the answer. I support building a stadium on the waterfront of buffalo somewhere near or on where the "Pier" used to be or where the skyway is currently. Theres plenty of unused property there. I say a retractable roof would be in order simply for the reason of attracting a superbowl, bowl game, concerts ect. As an addendum to my previous comment... If the people of Niagara Falls can not figure out how to capatalize on one of the "seven wonders of the world" what makes you think they can do anything with one of the "bottom 7 teams in the NFL?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 From what I can gather based on some quick research about other NFL stadiums about two hundred acres are needed for the stadium and adjacent parking. As it has been some time since I've been to downtown Niagara Falls I was wondering is there likely to be a parcel of land available that meets this size requirement? Hate to say it but last time I was in the downtown area it would have probably helped to run a bulldozer form one end to the other anyway. I am trying to put together information for another post but it makes no sense to pursue it if land in the city of Niagara Falls would not be available. Where did Jim Kelly say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I'm surprised no one has mentioned the terrible bottleneck it would be to get across the Grand Island bridges for a game. Because there are a million other routes....---and it would be reeeeally moot if it was built on the rez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts