BuffaloBill Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 From what I can gather based on some quick research about other NFL stadiums about two hundred acres are needed for the stadium and adjacent parking. As it has been some time since I've been to downtown Niagara Falls I was wondering is there likely to be a parcel of land available that meets this size requirement? Hate to say it but last time I was in the downtown area it would have probably helped to run a bulldozer form one end to the other anyway. I am trying to put together information for another post but it makes no sense to pursue it if land in the city of Niagara Falls would not be available.
Preston Ridlehuber Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 From what I can gather based on some quick research about other NFL stadiums about two hundred acres are needed for the stadium and adjacent parking. As it has been some time since I've been to downtown Niagara Falls I was wondering is there likely to be a parcel of land available that meets this size requirement? Hate to say it but last time I was in the downtown area it would have probably helped to run a bulldozer form one end to the other anyway. I am trying to put together information for another post but it makes no sense to pursue it if land in the city of Niagara Falls would not be available. Trust me, there is plenty of land available on the American side.
Ray Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 You could take 3/4 of the city and you would be doing everyone a favor. Good idea/concept of having the stadium there as it is the same distance away as OP. You get the Rochester crowd no matter what, you get Buffalo and NF obviously but then much easier to market in Southern Ontario as you are 30-40 minutes closer. Not even Toronto but Hamilton on South is over 1 million people. Add that to Buffalo/NY and Rochester and that is a 3M+ market all within 60 miles of NF. I do not see it happening at all or in doowntown Buffalo with a retractable roof unless federal and state money is available for it. Remeber the biggest reason Ralph makes money is b/c of no debt at all on the stadium. Add the debt of buying the team and the profit is gone....add in building a stadium and you are losing money.
jwws9999 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 You could take 3/4 of the city and you would be doing everyone a favor. Good idea/concept of having the stadium there as it is the same distance away as OP. You get the Rochester crowd no matter what, you get Buffalo and NF obviously but then much easier to market in Southern Ontario as you are 30-40 minutes closer. Not even Toronto but Hamilton on South is over 1 million people. Add that to Buffalo/NY and Rochester and that is a 3M+ market all within 60 miles of NF. I do not see it happening at all or in doowntown Buffalo with a retractable roof unless federal and state money is available for it. Remeber the biggest reason Ralph makes money is b/c of no debt at all on the stadium. Add the debt of buying the team and the profit is gone....add in building a stadium and you are losing money. How much did the state pony up for the new stadium in the bronx
Ray Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I do not know quite honestly but I bet a huge amount.....last I read it was a lot more than originally proposed. However, you do know the Yankees are a good bet to almost always make money. I think Buffalo could and would.....do what Indy did and connect the stadium to a new Convention Center. Use the stadium year round for concerts, possible college games, conventions etc..... I think it would be great but I just do not see it happening with the fiscal pain of the state/local/federal gov't right now. Although with the new so called "stimulus" package maybe they can put people to work on municipal projects like that and build a new stadium and roads to it etc....we can dream can't we?
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I would be delighted if my poor hometown were able to land that stadium. Finding open land would not be a problem; the casino has pretty much turned all the area around it into a ghost town. The big issues will be funding in general (of course) and the inevitable red tape and corruption (see the saga of the new justice center on Main Street, or the problems with the Wintergarden and Rainbow Centre). It certainly does make a lot of geographical sense. One thing is for sure, there is already a well-developed highway network to get people to NF, which is a big plus over the OP, especially considering the traffic situation when Rich opened in 1973. Because it would be so wonderful, however, I am reasonably certain that it will never happen. Though I will continue to hope. That last sentence just summed up my philosophy of being a Bills fan.
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I do not know quite honestly but I bet a huge amount.....last I read it was a lot more than originally proposed. However, you do know the Yankees are a good bet to almost always make money.I think Buffalo could and would.....do what Indy did and connect the stadium to a new Convention Center. Use the stadium year round for concerts, possible college games, conventions etc..... I think it would be great but I just do not see it happening with the fiscal pain of the state/local/federal gov't right now. Although with the new so called "stimulus" package maybe they can put people to work on municipal projects like that and build a new stadium and roads to it etc....we can dream can't we? I like the idea but it will never happen unless they build new highways into NF from the rest of the area. that would be horrible congestion over there. One way in... one way out...
The Dean Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I would be delighted if my poor hometown were able to land that stadium. Finding open land would not be a problem; the casino has pretty much turned all the area around it into a ghost town. The big issues will be funding in general (of course) and the inevitable red tape and corruption (see the saga of the new justice center on Main Street, or the problems with the Wintergarden and Rainbow Centre). It certainly does make a lot of geographical sense. One thing is for sure, there is already a well-developed highway network to get people to NF, which is a big plus over the OP, especially considering the traffic situation when Rich opened in 1973. Because it would be so wonderful, however, I am reasonably certain that it will never happen. Though I will continue to hope. That last sentence just summed up my philosophy of being a Bills fan. i disagree that the Casino is at fault for NF being a ghost town. It was a ghost town before the casino, and the cause is the HORRIBLE leadership in the city. If there wasn't a Casino, there would simply be nothing. While you could put the stadium just about anywhere, and disturb nothing of value, the Falls leaders would be sure to screw the thing up...and the Buffalo based clowns "helping" Niagara Falls would never let the Falls get a plum deal like that, IMO.
Big Turk Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 From what I can gather based on some quick research about other NFL stadiums about two hundred acres are needed for the stadium and adjacent parking. As it has been some time since I've been to downtown Niagara Falls I was wondering is there likely to be a parcel of land available that meets this size requirement? Hate to say it but last time I was in the downtown area it would have probably helped to run a bulldozer form one end to the other anyway. I am trying to put together information for another post but it makes no sense to pursue it if land in the city of Niagara Falls would not be available. Downtown Niagara Falls does not exist...I work in NF, and every day I drive down main street there and look at abandoned building after abandoned building and am amazed. Not sure who owns the land in question, but you would think they wouldn't object much to selling it as all that is there are a bunch of ghetto apartments above abandoned buildings...
Tcali Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 From what I can gather based on some quick research about other NFL stadiums about two hundred acres are needed for the stadium and adjacent parking. As it has been some time since I've been to downtown Niagara Falls I was wondering is there likely to be a parcel of land available that meets this size requirement? Hate to say it but last time I was in the downtown area it would have probably helped to run a bulldozer form one end to the other anyway. I am trying to put together information for another post but it makes no sense to pursue it if land in the city of Niagara Falls would not be available. --old Buffalo Bill Cowboy and Indian show on the REZ....Smoking allowed--encouraged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in the stadium. Would be a wild success
BuffaloBill Posted January 9, 2009 Author Posted January 9, 2009 Downtown Niagara Falls does not exist...I work in NF, and every day I drive down main street there and look at abandoned building after abandoned building and am amazed. Not sure who owns the land in question, but you would think they wouldn't object much to selling it as all that is there are a bunch of ghetto apartments above abandoned buildings... Thanks ... confirms that things have not changed in 5 years. Sad....really sad
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 i disagree that the Casino is at fault for NF being a ghost town. It was a ghost town before the casino, and the cause is the HORRIBLE leadership in the city. If there wasn't a Casino, there would simply be nothing. While you could put the stadium just about anywhere, and disturb nothing of value, the Falls leaders would be sure to screw the thing up...and the Buffalo based clowns "helping" Niagara Falls would never let the Falls get a plum deal like that, IMO. Oh Dean, I was not blaming the casino alone... things were already horrible enough downtown without it. The sad thing is that the casino was never going to stimulate economic activity anywhere but the casino and its attached lands. Maybe I am reading too many issues of the Reporter, but that has always been my impression. And you are quite right about the likelihood of NF incompetence and Buffalo resentment scotching it anyway. P.S. So Bill, you are a Niagara alum? Go Eagles!
Tcali Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I like the idea but it will never happen unless they build new highways into NF from the rest of the area. that would be horrible congestion over there. One way in... one way out... there are tons of roads in from rochester--country roads--and plenty of country roads up from Buffalo---it would be a breeze.
The Dean Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Oh Dean, I was not blaming the casino alone... things were already horrible enough downtown without it. The sad thing is that the casino was never going to stimulate economic activity anywhere but the casino and its attached lands. Maybe I am reading too many issues of the Reporter, but that has always been my impression. Well, once again, given the horrible leadership, and defeatist attitude of the people still in the Falls, I think you are right. Right from the get-go, bars and restaurants in the area started to complain because the "casino took their business". In reality, there was a perfect customer to market to: the Casino Employee, as the employees were not allowed to go to the casino to drink, and had to get permission to go the buffet. Steve at Players understood the market, and I bartended on Monday nights, and put flyers in the Casino employee areas (and passed them around), and Players catered to the casino worker, with specials, cashing checks, etc. His business boomed, while the business of the complainers down the street suffered. A few places opened up, in an attempt to get some of that casino employee action, but they tended to be over priced and trendy...not exactly the kind of place that will last in the Falls, and have long lasting appeal to those making a living wage...but, not much more.
The Dean Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 there are tons of roads in from rochester--country roads--and plenty of country roads up from Buffalo---it would be a breeze. Compared to getting to OP, it would be a nightmare, IMO. The only roads into downtown are small and poorly maintained. All the country roads you speak of, funnel into the same few roads and would cause a few major bottle necks, IMO.
keepthefaith Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Trust me, there is plenty of land available on the American side. Agree. Niagara Falls would help attract the Canadian market, but the City of Buffalo would be crazy not to fight hard to get the stadium in Buffalo. Downtown Buffalo desperately needs attractions to bring more people into the city and anything that might help clean up a rundown area. It would be a big opportunity missed if a new stadium was built somewhere else.
Big Turk Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 i disagree that the Casino is at fault for NF being a ghost town. It was a ghost town before the casino, and the cause is the HORRIBLE leadership in the city. If there wasn't a Casino, there would simply be nothing. While you could put the stadium just about anywhere, and disturb nothing of value, the Falls leaders would be sure to screw the thing up...and the Buffalo based clowns "helping" Niagara Falls would never let the Falls get a plum deal like that, IMO. NYS needs to receive a very very large portion of the blame here. How can a city with one of the worlds top tourist attractions, be as poor as it is? It makes no sense---Niagara Falls should be one of the richest cities in America with as many dollars are flowing into the city---until you realize that New York State designated the area around the falls as a state park, thereby sending all the money to the state and very little of it to the city itself. Its embarrassing and ridiculous that a city that generates huge amounts of cash keeps virtually none of it for itself. What is even worse is that the Canadian side is just unbelievable with the way they have built it up with all the wax museums and things to do---the place is a nightmare to try and travel around after 7pm at night when it looks like downtown NYC with thousands and thousands of people and cars clogging every street around. We had taken my wife's friend and her boyfriend over there one Saturday night in the summer when they came to visit from Ohio last year. I have never been so frustrated in my life. I missed the parking spot we normally go to(behind Rumours on Clifton Hill), and I attempted to just drive around the block to go back there---over an hour later I still hadn't made it back around and I was so irritated they told us not to worry about it and we went home. We were sitting at lights for 5 or 6 light changes and not going anywhere. Over on the American side, I probably could have drove around the block about 150 times during the same time period...just really sad on what the two sides have done with the same resource....
The Dean Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 NYS needs to receive a very very large portion of the blame here. How can a city with one of the worlds top tourist attractions, be as poor as it is? It makes no sense---Niagara Falls should be one of the richest cities in America with as many dollars are flowing into the city---until you realize that New York State designated the area around the falls as a state park, thereby sending all the money to the state and very little of it to the city itself. I agree the State is also to blame. But, the area around the Falls on the Canadian side is park, too...and much more of it, to boot.
Big Turk Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Compared to getting to OP, it would be a nightmare, IMO. The only roads into downtown are small and poorly maintained. All the country roads you speak of, funnel into the same few roads and would cause a few major bottle necks, IMO. Yeah, you want to talk about potholes---OMG, they are just horrendous in NF. We call them "axle-breakers", because you hit them and you pray your axle doesn't break they are that deep. The worst part is they seem to just appear out of nowhere one day. I hit one driving back home a few weeks ago so hard that my teeth rattled in my head and I thought I had given myself whiplash. They are so bad people will actually tell you to avoid going down certain streets because of the potholes...
dogbyte Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Not going to happen. Spending 300 to 400 million on a stadium that is only used for 8 to 10 games a year is not cost effective. It has been proven that football teams do not create many jobs. Downtown NF needs jobs for 365 days a year not 10 to 12 days a year. A baseball team on the other hand will great more jobs and buisness since they play 81 games or more. A combination stadium may pay for itself and create jobs but a new stadium would surly have to have a retractable dome to be used for other things and that would cost 600 to 700 million. In these economic times this is not going to happen. No one is going to pay the taxes for it.
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