BillsVet Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Why not quote the entire post ? Perhaps Brady to Moss doesn't mean much to you ...considering the Bills faced the NFL's most prolific passing offense 2x a year. Dunno, maybe the 56-10 and 38-7 losses to a team that went undefeated in 07 mean nothing to someone of your stature,have another Did you watch the SB last year? The Giants didn't have any all-pro DB's back there, and it didn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Did you watch the SB last year? The Giants didn't have any all-pro DB's back there, and it didn't matter. Ummm, how do you possibly equate the Buffalo Bills to the NY Giants? If only the Bills had David Tyree in those 07 games to catch a football on his helmet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (thewildrabbit @ Jan 10 2009, 03:56 AM) Not for nothing, but I don't blame Jauron for stacking the secondary with Tom Brady and Randy Moss in the AFC East. I know its been mentioned already but Jauron is probably still shell shocked from all the Injuries last season, the Bills actually had walkons off the street on the field at times they were so desperate. (Beerball @ Jan 10 2009, 06:50 PM) How long do you think the shell shock will last? We're 12 months removed from the 2007 season. Not sure if I've seen a sorrier excuse for Jauron's ineptitude. 'thewildrabbit' post='1287792' date='Jan 10 2009, 07:56 PM']Why not quote the entire post ? Perhaps Brady to Moss doesn't mean much to you ...considering the Bills faced the NFL's most prolific passing offense 2x a year. Dunno, maybe the 56-10 and 38-7 losses to a team that went undefeated in 07 mean nothing to someone of your stature,have another Why not respond to the question I asked you? What do Brady and Moss have to do with the fact that you are blaming Jauron's coaching in 2008 on his 2007 season? You really believe that Jauron is suffering from shell shock? You really believe that 2007 was that traumatic to him? You really think that 2008 was an anomoly in Jauron's coaching career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Roster talent means nothing when the coaching is so bad and the results stink to high heaven. It's a cop out to say the talent is better. I agree that the coaching is horrible, and that the record is really the bottom line. I was responding to a claim that Levy decimated the roster...which is incorrect. If you really think this team is worse than it was in 2005, you have no complaints with Jauron. All I ask is that you, and Bill (and others) use reasonable criticism. You can't call the team worse, and the coach horrible if the team actually performs better than the one it replaced. If you keep changing your argument, it speaks to your frustration...but not your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Ummm, how do you possibly equate the Buffalo Bills to the NY Giants? If only the Bills had David Tyree in those 07 games to catch a football on his helmet Let me guess-you're the guy who played the rabbit, right? Or perhaps you're the eggman to John Lennon's walrus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Why not respond to the question I asked you? What do Brady and Moss have to do with the fact that you are blaming Jauron's coaching in 2008 on his 2007 season? You really believe that Jauron is suffering from shell shock? You really believe that 2007 was that traumatic to him? You really think that 2008 was an anomoly in Jauron's coaching career?OK Beerball' I'll answer your question,"How long do you think the shell shock will last? We're 12 months removed from the 2007 season." Where in my statement did I say that his crappy coaching for the 08 season was because he was shell shocked? How do you deduce that I'm in any way making an excuse for him for the entire 08 season? I basically stated that Jauron has tried to beef up the bills secondary because of the fact that the Bills took such a tremendous beating at the hands of Tom Brady and Randy Moss and the Patriots in 07, to the tune of 56-7 and 38-10. And yeah, he is still probably seeing Brady throwing touchdowns to Moss in his nightmares. If you want to take sentences out of context and misconstrue them to fit whatever misplaced anger you have built up because Jauron is STILL the head coach, feel free! Just don't expect to automatically get an answer to a moronic question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The depth of the secondary has been a Godsend, this year. With the injuries, can you imagine if the Bills didn't have that kind of depth? Seeing as how this defense plays passively, you would expect that the Bills would be ranked near the bottom of the NFL in points allowed, instead of in the middle of the pack. Can you imagine how tough it would be on Trent, if he had to play a come from WAY behind every game? That secondary keeps the Bills in games, and gives the Trent-led offense a chance to compete. I was responding to these posts in column #5 about the injuries that occurred during the 08 season. Not for nothing, but I don't blame Jauron for stacking the secondary with Tom Brady and Randy Moss in the AFC East. I know its been mentioned already but Jauron is probably still shell shocked from all the Injuries TO THE SECONDARY last season, the Bills actually had walkons off the street on the field at times they were so desperate. Does posting it like this make it easier to understand what I was trying get across? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I was responding to these posts in column #5 about the injuries that occurred during the 08 season. Not for nothing, but I don't blame Jauron for stacking the secondary with Tom Brady and Randy Moss in the AFC East. I know its been mentioned already but Jauron is probably still shell shocked from all the Injuries TO THE SECONDARY last season, the Bills actually had walkons off the street on the field at times they were so desperate. Does posting it like this make it easier to understand what I was trying get across? You won't get an argument from me, I think a good, and deep defensive backfield is extremely important in this league. But, so is a good pass rush. I just disagree that Levy (and Jauron and the Bills FO) IGNORED the defensive line (or offensive line, depending on which way the argument is going that day), what has happened is, the defensive line moves haven't been as productive as the secondary picks. McCargo's and Schobel's injuries hurt the pass rush, big time, this year. But, let's be clear that the team DID draft McCargo in the first round, and signed Stroud as a fairly high profile FA this past offseason. They also drafted Williams, who has turned out to be a decent rotation DT. What some of the haters refuse to concede is the team was in such miserable shape that virtually all positions needed to be addressed. To hear some posters tell it, the Bills should ONLY draft linemen. That simply wasn't a way to build this team, and try to remain competitive (and improve) in the process. Now, I would suspect that the Bills will target the defensive line (as well as a few other key areas) this offseason. But, that still doesn't mean that they will draft a DE in round #1...and that will piss a certain contingent off. If they make no moves, and draft no DEs or DTs on the first day, then you have a legitimate argument that they haven't tried to address the defensive line. For the record, though, this was the Defensive line in 2005: DTs Sam Adams Justin Bannan Tim Anderson Ron Edwards Jason Jefferson Lauvale Sape DEs Ryan Denney Chris Kelsay Aaron Schobel You can NOT argue that the front office DECIMATED the DEs...they are the same guys that are on the team, now. So, where is the DECIMATION? Are the DTs now significantly worse than they were in 2005? Bill? What say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Justin Bannan is the starting LDT and Jim Leonhard is the starting SS for the Ravens, the team going to the AFC championship game. The Bills still have McCargo and Corto, good job Jauron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 You won't get an argument from me, I think a good, and deep defensive backfield is extremely important in this league. But, so is a good pass rush. I just disagree that Levy (and Jauron and the Bills FO) IGNORED the defensive line (or offensive line, depending on which way the argument is going that day), what has happened is, the defensive line moves haven't been as productive as the secondary picks. McCargo's and Schobel's injuries hurt the pass rush, big time, this year. But, let's be clear that the team DID draft McCargo in the first round, and signed Stroud as a fairly high profile FA this past offseason. They also drafted Williams, who has turned out to be a decent rotation DT. What some of the haters refuse to concede is the team was in such miserable shape that virtually all positions needed to be addressed. To hear some posters tell it, the Bills should ONLY draft linemen. That simply wasn't a way to build this team, and try to remain competitive (and improve) in the process. Now, I would suspect that the Bills will target the defensive line (as well as a few other key areas) this offseason. But, that still doesn't mean that they will draft a DE in round #1...and that will piss a certain contingent off. If they make no moves, and draft no DEs or DTs on the first day, then you have a legitimate argument that they haven't tried to address the defensive line. For the record, though, this was the Defensive line in 2005: DTs Sam Adams Justin Bannan Tim Anderson Ron Edwards Jason Jefferson Lauvale Sape DEs Ryan Denney Chris Kelsay Aaron Schobel You can NOT argue that the front office DECIMATED the DEs...they are the same guys that are on the team, now. So, where is the DECIMATION? Are the DTs now significantly worse than they were in 2005? Bill? What say you? Once again Brian, I admire your loyalty to Levy. I still vehemently disagree with you. Starting with the DEs, yes they are worse, but I cannot blame Schobel's injury on Marv, or even Jauron. Kelsay has virtually no chance at ever making a play on the run, and his pass rush is all but non existent. Denney has long arms and can block a pass or 2 after he is stood up and stopped by opposing blockers. That's about it, and our defense is so stupid that they actually put him in coverage at times, even though he is slow. What did they do for depth? The drafted a smallish Chris Ellis who couldn't even crack this poor lineup. Stroud? That was a great trade, but he will be 31 when this season starts, and a UFA in 2 years. Williams is nothing but a journeyman, but he was a good pick in round 5. This season we had 1 good DT and no good DEs. That was our DL. The secondary on the other hand is chock full of resources. The #8, the #11, a 3rd, 2 4ths, a 6th, a 7th, and numerous free agents in 3 years. This is stupid. It was the result of senility, idiocy, and playing not to lose, which obviously didn't work. You see, having a slew of fancy defensive backs doesn't matter when there is no pass rush. This is not touch football in a Brooklyn or Queens schoolyard. Receivers will get open unless the qb is at some point pressured. Look at what Arizona did to us. Pressure Warner, sack him 5 or 6 times and you have a different game. Not us, because the fools that built our team believe in playing so far off the ball that you can't see them on the TV screen, and using our best picks to do so. And, it isnt all about the DL. We have no center, no tight end, and I am not loving Dockery at LG these days, although Richard Seymour must. No matter how much you defend Levy, he had his chance to bring in players and coaches in 06 to really help this team and he failed miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Defensive line in 2005:DT: Sam Adams, Justin Bannan, Tim Anderson, Ron Edwards, Jason Jefferson, Lauvale Sape DE: Ryan Denney, Chris Kelsay, Aaron Schobel Let's complete the comparison. The DL in 2008: DT: Marcus Stroud, Kevin Williams, Spencer Johnson, John McCargo DE: Ryan Denney, Chris Kelsay, Aaron Schobel, Copeland Bryan, Chris Ellis So, we've exchanged Adams and Bannan (who is still an NFL starter for the Ravens) for Stroud and Williams. Ron Edwards exchanged for Spencer Johnson as depth. The DEs are the same 2 starters and primary backup. The scrub/special teams guys have been changed from Anderson, Jefferson, and Sape to McCargo, Bryan, and Ellis. Decimation? No. Much improved? No. More like treading water. Now, if the McCargo and Ellis draft picks had panned out (too early to say with Ellis) to their draft positions, then this unit does look improved over 05. But that's more treading water. People hoped and promised Anderson, Edwards, Jefferson, and Sape would develop into excellent players once upon a time as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 OK Beerball' I'll answer your question,"How long do you think the shell shock will last? We're 12 months removed from the 2007 season." Where in my statement did I say that his crappy coaching for the 08 season was because he was shell shocked? How do you deduce that I'm in any way making an excuse for him for the entire 08 season? I basically stated that Jauron has tried to beef up the bills secondary because of the fact that the Bills took such a tremendous beating at the hands of Tom Brady and Randy Moss and the Patriots in 07, to the tune of 56-7 and 38-10. And yeah, he is still probably seeing Brady throwing touchdowns to Moss in his nightmares. If you want to take sentences out of context and misconstrue them to fit whatever misplaced anger you have built up because Jauron is STILL the head coach, feel free! Just don't expect to automatically get an answer to a moronic question. (thewildrabbit @ Jan 10 2009, 03:56 AM) Not for nothing, but I don't blame Jauron for stacking the secondary with Tom Brady and Randy Moss in the AFC East. I know its been mentioned already but Jauron is probably still shell shocked from all the Injuries last season, the Bills actually had walkons off the street on the field at times they were so desperate. Sorry, you are correct. I misconstrued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Once again Brian, I admire your loyalty to Levy. I still vehemently disagree with you. Where is the DECIMATION, Bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Where is the DECIMATION, Bill? The same lousy cast of DEs that are older and less healthy. Why isn't this clear? Levy had every chance to right the ship and he blew it Bro, He neglected the DE position, and threw away players such as Mangold, Davin Joseph, Trueblood, and Branden Albert to draft little defensive backs, and hand out 74 million to 2 fat blockers who are about average. Ralph/Levy/Jauron = Not a clue. Posters on a message board could see the problems, but not these guys. Two are just too old, the other was best described by Badol as an over educated, slow blinking fool, and he of course was hired and kept on by this almost laughable combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 If Jauron is willing to keep Jon Corto and John McCargo over Jim Leonhard and Justin Bannan it is very clear to me that this guy fails at evaluating talent as well as being a head coach. No wonder the Bills pass rush sucks... If Wilson doesn't notice this,then he has problems also. GREAT!!! Now I can't even have a decent off season trusting that this Bills FO and coaching staff will get some decent new talent for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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