marauderswr80 Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Thats the huge thing Cat......Schonert is in his first year as an OC. So Jauron can basically use that as an excuse to keep him....know what I mean. But again, EVERYTHING goes through HC Jauron. All the fake field goals, onsides kicks, fake punts.....all that goes through Jauron before the call is even made.
alow Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 At last, a valid point. This problem with OC's seems to be Jauron's own personal albatross dating all the way back his days in Chiago. And what sucks the most about the Schnoert situation is that while it's not ideal, the compassionate ones among us will give him a free pass because he's a rookie. I guess we'll see after 2009. Personally (and while I hate saying this) I'm reserving judgment until then. Get over it guys! Jauron is not the problem. Quit looking for a scapegoat. The Bills need more talented players and if they get them this offseason, THEN make your determination on Jauron after next season. Enough already.
1billsfan Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Your right, he is a time management genius Why are you arguing with someone who STILL thinks that Dick Jauron is a competent NFL head coach? Just think about that. Also, please don't apologize for venting about the Buffalo Bill's biggest weakness. We happen to have the worst head coach in the league and that fact needs to be brought up here at TSW from time to time.
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Oh, good point. Yeah, it's the second year QB that should have taken over the situation.
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 I'm trying to get over it for now because unfortunately we're stuck with coach Juron for 2009. Unless the season starts with some kind of a disaster, like 0-6, then Ralph is going to be content to let things play out. My problem is not the play calling issues, time management mistakes, misuse of challenges, game management or planning. The problem I see is no learning curve here. Sure people make mistakes. We all make mistakes at work and in personal dealings. But usually we learn from those errors, make corrections, and move forward. Looking through the 16 game season I don't see any of that. In the last month of the season you'd expect these blunders to be worked out, but that is not what we saw. Maybe Turk gets a pass but Juron has too much time as a head coach to use inexperience as an excuse. Rather the problem is incompetence. So can we expect anything to improve next season? As Bills fans we need to hope but when I look at it objectively I can't hold out much hope that all of a sudden Juron is going to match wits with Mr. Bill in New England.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Yeah, it's the second year QB that should have taken over the situation. When the Radio shut off a ROOKIE with COMMON SENSE should know enough to get to the line of scrimmage & spike the ball.
DrFishfinder Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 At last, a valid point. This problem with OC's seems to be Jauron's own personal albatross dating all the way back his days in Chiago. And what sucks the most about the Schnoert situation is that while it's not ideal, the compassionate ones among us will give him a free pass because he's a rookie. I guess we'll see after 2009. Personally (and while I hate saying this) I'm reserving judgment until then. Here's another... Since we agree that the buck stops at Jauron, the defensive buck should as well. The defense, while not as big a problem as the offense, is still a problem. Fewell's defense gave up too many 7 or 8 minute game killing drives in the 4th quarter and gave up too many opening drive touchdowns that put the Bills down by 7 before the sputtering offense got it's first 3 and out. Fewell's D continually got torched with slants and quick outs. All-year-long. Not to mention the almost complete lack of a pass rush. It's Fewell's defense and Fewell is Jauron's responsibility. I know the offense is the bigger problem, but the defense needs some serious tweaking too. So can Jauron major in offense and minor in defense? Is he capable of accomplishing the primary job of getting the offense on track yet still oversee improvements to the defense? Is he a micro manager? Does he delegate instead and give Schonert and Fewell free rein? It didn't seem that Jauron could handle the offensive side of the game last year, regardless of whether he was calling the plays or Schonert. Jauron has 2 bucks on his desk. Offense and defense...special teams is ok thanks to April. I hope that Jauron doesn't concentrate on the offense to the exclusion of Fewell and the defense. I don't have very much confidence in Fewell after watching his defense this season. He was unchanging, unimaginative and inflexible. Since the first loss to Miami, the defense gave up 224 points in 9 games, almost 25 points/game. That's one buck Jauron had better not let sit on his desk too long.
reddogblitz Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Dick Jauron's contract extension is through 2011, the stadium lease is up in January 2012, and no coaching changes, GMs, or serious moves are being made to improve the team in any way. Sadly, the writing is on the wall, Ralph doesn't care about a winning team anymore, and is just holding on till he's gone. IMO this is selfish on his part and dooming the franchise's future in WNY. Dick Jauron is merely filling a role that Ralph needs filled, and he doesn't care the outcome at the end of the season. When you ask the question: Why put all that effort towards a successful product when you won't be around to reap it's benefits? Is it really a surprise that this team will not be a winner anymore? Only a miracle new owner that intends to keep the team in WNY with the desire to win will change the current status quo. blah blah blah blah
reddogblitz Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 If you have another specific example of clock mismanagement in 2008- I'm all ears. 2 immediately come to mind. 1. Clowns game. After the Clowns called that first time it should have been obvious that they weren't going to let us run out the clock by pounding into the line. We needed a first down. Instead, Dick keeps pounding it in with no success. Something that hadn't worked all year up to that point. Meanwhile the shotgun handoff to Fred worked all night. Why not try that and get a first down, a closer field goal to kick as time expired. 2. Jets game. Calling a pass with 2:06 remaining was idiotic. A run takes us to 2:00 warning. Even if JP did the right thing there and threw the ball away, it'd be 3rd and 5 with 2:03 remaining. That my friend, is textbook bad clock management. I do agree with you though that in the Pats game that if TE didn't get play in in time he should have been enough of a man to call a play and run it.
thewildrabbit Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Although I can't stand what this team has become,a shotgun pass happy ...throw on third and one...fling it all over...forget the run... make the back up QB try and win the game offense. Turk Schonert is a rookie OC and since it looks like Jauron will keep him (because he is most likely working for peanuts) I'd hope that with any rookie that makes a mistake, the HC will sit him down and go over it so it doesn't happen again. Lord knows I can't stand that shotgun play calling bastage but some thing will definitely happen next season,either he will have learned from his mistakes and correct them and the Bills start winning games or he will continue to screw up and he will get fired, to me its a win-win situation. What really bothers me though is the fact that he was a back up QB in the league for 10 years,then another ten years as an assistant coach in the NFL,so 20 years of experience and he still doesn't know enough to not call a running play with 22 seconds on the clock and no time outs? Although I'm not happy with that call or the Jets called roll out pass,I'm simply not going to keep complaining because those screw ups were after the Bills were out of the playoff hunt and the Bills got the # 11 pick in a very talent rich draft with all the underclassmen that are declaring. I'm not saying the Bills coaching staff called those idiotic plays on purpose to lose those games and get a better position in the draft,I'm just hoping maybe they did
cody Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 One of Jauron's problems is one of the same problems Mularkey had. Jauron thinks football is this complicated hard trial. To him, the only way to win is to out-think the other team. That's why the Bills do so many things that make us scratch our heads. The other team doesn't expect them either. Had Jackson caught NE by surprise by running up the middle and scored, DJ would have looked smart. Had JP caught the Jets by surpirse and thrown for a 1st down, DJ would have looked smart. The thing is, crap like that backfires more often than it works. Esspecially when a team doesn't seem capable of doing the simple things well. Mularkey didn't employ many tricks this year and had success. Maybe he learned his lesson or maybe he finally has players that he thinks can beat the other teams straight-up. As long as DJ thinks he needs to outsmart the other team, he will continue to cost the Bills wins.
profile Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 blah blah blah blah lol. what a simpleton you are.......
The Dean Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 I know, get over it, right? I am not going to get over it because it is costing us "Wins" every season. I hate harping on this issue, but the situation is ridiculous. Then, stop complaining and DO SOMETHING about it!
The Big Cat Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 2 immediately come to mind. 1. Clowns game. After the Clowns called that first time it should have been obvious that they weren't going to let us run out the clock by pounding into the line. We needed a first down. Instead, Dick keeps pounding it in with no success. Something that hadn't worked all year up to that point. Meanwhile the shotgun handoff to Fred worked all night. Why not try that and get a first down, a closer field goal to kick as time expired. 2. Jets game. Calling a pass with 2:06 remaining was idiotic. A run takes us to 2:00 warning. Even if JP did the right thing there and threw the ball away, it'd be 3rd and 5 with 2:03 remaining. That my friend, is textbook bad clock management. I do agree with you though that in the Pats game that if TE didn't get play in in time he should have been enough of a man to call a play and run it. Valid points, but I still think you can look at each case differently: 1. Had pounding the ball worked all YEAR to that point? No. Had pounding it all NIGHT worked? Yes. So, since we're talking about CLOCK MANAGEMENT here, I don't see how running it down to set up a field goal was a bad idea. Plus, lest we forget about Trent's performance up that point in the game. It wasn't his game to control. UNLESS he calls for it. UNLESS he makes the case that the team needs him to win. I simply don't see Trent being that kind of quarterback, and certainly not on that particular night. I remember -and this is un-provable, intangible stuff here so if you want to argue the point I'm making please don't latch on to THIS portion of what I'm saying -during pre-games they showed Trent standing on the sideline and the expression on his face was one of fear. And it wasn't like he looked alarmed or anything, his face, when relaxed, conveyed to me a sense of uneasiness. I remember thinking, boy, I hope I'm not reading this right. Well, the first three possesions indicated that I WAS reading him right. Running the ball at the end of the game to set something up could have been the right thing to do. In terms of CLOCK MANAGEMENT it WAS the right thing to do. This isn't a discussion of execution or HOW they chose to run the ball. 2. As for the Jet's game. They was an example of them going for the win (something most folks here will claim Jauron refuses to do) and the EXECUTION of the play failing miserably. I don't care if Peters wasn't assigned the blitzing safety, he blocks nobody on the play, and the guy who forces the fumble runs RIGHT past him. BUT, in terms of clock management, if the play goes the way it should, and we get those 6 yards, which we would have given the number of receivers v the number of DB's not blitzing, then we get the first down, with less than 2 min to go, the Jets had less than 3 TO's, the game is virtually OVER. It was a clock management decision that was made in order to WIN the game. IMO, the disaster that play turned into falls on the players. If the QB reads the blitz, then again, BE A MAN AND AUDIBLE. If he thinks he can get the play off in spite of his read, then for God's sake get the play off. Losman couldn't even manage that. He let himself get sacked AND he fumbled the ball. The fact that it went the other way for six was just piss in the wound.
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Get over it guys! Jauron is not the problem. Quit looking for a scapegoat. The Bills need more talented players and if they get them this offseason, THEN make your determination on Jauron after next season. Enough already. Welcome to The Stadium Wall Mr. Jauron. Since you're here, which do you prefer, Disappointed Dick or Mopey Dick?
BuffaninATL Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Get over it guys! Jauron is not the problem. Quit looking for a scapegoat. The Bills need more talented players and if they get them this offseason, THEN make your determination on Jauron after next season. Enough already. WRONG !!! - see my earlier post when I quoted Rosevelt Colvin, who I heard verbatim say "Every team in the NFL has talent....it all comes down to COACHING."" The Bills have talent - they can definitely use a few upgrades here & there, but to not hold our (lack of) coaching is purely disingenuous. Great coaching is about putting your players in a position to succeed, and sadly our coaching staff headed by DJ put the Bills in a position to fail numerous times, i.e., passing on 4th & 1 out of an obvious passing formation, into the wind.
BuffaninATL Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 WRONG !!! - see my earlier post when I quoted Rosevelt Colvin, who I heard verbatim say "Every team in the NFL has talent....it all comes down to COACHING."" The Bills have talent - they can definitely use a few upgrades here & there, but to not hold our (lack of) coaching is purely disingenuous. Great coaching is about putting your players in a position to succeed, and sadly our coaching staff headed by DJ put the Bills in a position to fail numerous times, i.e., passing on 4th & 1 out of an obvious passing formation, into the wind. WRONG !!! - see my earlier post when I quoted Rosevelt Colvin, who I heard verbatim say "Every team in the NFL has talent....it all comes down to COACHING."" The Bills have talent - they can definitely use a few upgrades here & there, but to not hold our (lack of) coaching ACCOUNTABLE is purely disingenuous. Great coaching is about putting your players in a position to succeed, and sadly our coaching staff headed by DJ put the Bills in a position to fail numerous times, i.e., passing on 4th & 1 out of an obvious passing formation, into the wind.
MRW Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Valid points, but I still think you can look at each case differently: I disagree with you on both of those plays. 1. It's overshadowed by Lindell's miss, but if he had made it, the Browns would've gotten the ball back with ~30 seconds or so (going from memory here). Their kicker had just hit a 56-yarder. Continuing to pick up first downs lets you run the clock down and kick with no time left or with not enough time for more than a desperation play. Leaving aside the stupidity of playing for the 47-yard field goal, it's bad clock management. And while the RBs picked up good yardage, I didn't get the sense that the Bills running game was as dominant as in... 2. Here, a running play is guaranteed to take the clock down to two minutes and, given that you've just picked up five yards on first down, actually has a decent chance of getting the first. As others have stated, an incomplete pass would essentially be a free timeout for the Jets before the two minute warning. Now, if you get stuffed, maybe you look at a high percentage pass play (read: not a rollout pass to the fullback you signed off the street in week 5 or whatever) to try to get the first down. But given the way the run was working, including on that drive when the Jets knew it was coming, don't outsmart yourself and try to go tricky.
The Big Cat Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 I disagree with you on both of those plays. 1. It's overshadowed by Lindell's miss, but if he had made it, the Browns would've gotten the ball back with ~30 seconds or so (going from memory here). Their kicker had just hit a 56-yarder. Continuing to pick up first downs lets you run the clock down and kick with no time left or with not enough time for more than a desperation play. Leaving aside the stupidity of playing for the 47-yard field goal, it's bad clock management. And while the RBs picked up good yardage, I didn't get the sense that the Bills running game was as dominant as in... 2. Here, a running play is guaranteed to take the clock down to two minutes and, given that you've just picked up five yards on first down, actually has a decent chance of getting the first. As others have stated, an incomplete pass would essentially be a free timeout for the Jets before the two minute warning. Now, if you get stuffed, maybe you look at a high percentage pass play (read: not a rollout pass to the fullback you signed off the street in week 5 or whatever) to try to get the first down. But given the way the run was working, including on that drive when the Jets knew it was coming, don't outsmart yourself and try to go tricky. 1. You say that all this is possible by picking up first downs. Okay? So what's your point? Pass for a first or run for a first. that's the argument then. Since this is a clock management discussion, and since you've chided them for leaving 30 secs, you must advocate RUNNING for the first down, since failure to PASS for the first down would have left even MORE time. Once again, HOW they ran it doesn't factor into this particular discussion. 2. A stuffed running play runs 6 seconds off the clock? Somehow I think that's a convenient assumption on your part. And, even if it DOES take it down to the 2 min mark, assuming it was stuffed, now it's 3 and 5, and if we don't convert, the Jets call time out again, get the ball back with nearly two minutes left AND a timeout. Clock management. They went for the juggular and a failure to execute made them look like fools. But, like I already alluded to, and as it's been discussed many times already, failure to execute is an understatement in this case, and the end result practically renders moot and series of 'what-ifs.'
keepthefaith Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Get over it guys! Jauron is not the problem. Quit looking for a scapegoat. The Bills need more talented players and if they get them this offseason, THEN make your determination on Jauron after next season. Enough already. The sarcasm is just too obvious. The world knows Jauron will not win in Buffalo or elsewhere as a head coach. Try again.
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