So Dummycrats

[ExiledInIllinois]

By that line of reasoning, the rich are the ones who should be getting a tax break and the middle and lower classes should be paying more.

 

I love how the group of people who contribute the MOST to the tax base liberals always call the ones "not paying their fair share."

 

 

Maybe you see it that way... I don't. We can just agree to disagree.

[finknottle]

I would look to offer small businesses (say with less than x number of employees) tax breaks tied to new hiring and breaks tied to no layoffs. If there is a way for a business to avoid layoffs or make new hires, I would strongly incentivize this behavior. My target would be small businesses as they support most of the job creation in the US.

 

But remember that the strength of small businesses lie in their flexibility - a three person company can ramp up to 8 easily if they win a contract, and go back to 3 if it runs out or is cancelled. It would take years for a 500 person company to get up to 800 in response to new opportunities, and years to drop back to 500 - and they probably could not do it without risking bancruptcy.

 

Another problem with such tax breaks is that it encourages low-wage jobs. I believe Obama proposed a $3,000 tax credit for new hires - that encourages me to hire three people at 30k rather than one at 90k.

 

But IMO the biggest disincentive (thankfully not under discussion yet) is legislation (common in Europe) in which the company is responsible for paying a years salary for workers that are let go. It strongly discourages the expansion of the workforce until it is absolutely neccessary, and in particular discourages foreign companies from setting up shop - pulling the plug on a venture is too expensive if it doesn't work out.

[The Dean]

A snuke?

 

 

If only I had a sniz in which to store it.

[OCinBuffalo]

Actually it's not "called facts" it's called the fallacy of false equivalence.

So I guess the "walks like a duck" rule doesn't apply here? So it's "similar" but not "the same"? Huh? How? I am gonna guess that you think Obama's constituency is somehow more entitled than Bush's? Re-creating the welfare system by giving "tax breaks" that end up paying out money to people? How in the hell is that not paying off Obama's political constituency? How about forcing these auto bailouts with barely any union concessions? How is that not THE SAME?

To extent yes. I never really disagreed with Bush's ways of doing things... I found it hideous with who he was doing it with. So yes, IMO Obama is better... You may not agree on both and see it as the same path. I see it as two distinct paths that look similar.

The point was: Obama is no different than Bush in that he is simply attempting to pay off his end of the bargain for getting elected. Hillary gets caught doing the same thing, and where is all of your phony indignation? Where is your self-righteous BS and phony moral arguments?

 

You and the rest of your ilk falsely characterized this nonsense as a Republican problem, when you should have been saying it's a politicians/government in general problem.

Yes, corporations bad.

Now about those three million jobs Obama has promised to create...

Gotta love it when the hypocrisy and stupidity creates a circle.

Haters who complain about everything, and offer nothing, are a dime a dozen.

So basically you are marginalizing people like Keith Olbermann, hell, all of MSNBC, MoveOn.org, many of the posters here and practically all of the Democratic party who have done nothing but complain and use every setback, but self-imposed and not, Bush has had to deal with for political gain?

 

Well of course I agree with you. All of them deserve to be marginalized because they have done nothing, especially the Democratic Congress, but complain about everything, and offer nothing, and they are a dime a dozen.

 

Glad to see we agree.

I know a lot of old men, with 6th grade educations, who sound just like you. Whining like spoiled little girls because the world doesn't work the way they want it to.

Did you work at the highway department too?

 

I had a summer job there, and I have never heard more whining from grown men, ever. They whined if we broke a sweat, they were constantly telling me to slow down, they couldn't stand that I loved swinging a sledge hammer and jackhammering(seriously who doesn't love that?), and they screamed and cried every time they gave us summer help people a job to do and we got it done that same day. Worst of all, we were all "political appointees", but I guess they didn't count on a bunch of college kids actually demonstrating this crazy concept called: "work ethic".

 

But yeah, the unions of today are no different than the union my grandfather helped start. We should continue to support these morally and fiscally bankrupt institutions? Why? Nostalgia?

Just complain way, as the world passes you bye.

 

Maybe after the apocalypse your kind will be relevant again.

This is the exact specific advice that needs to be given to all labor unions. They aren't serving their people in any capacity, they are simply trying to stay relevant in a world where they have no chance of being effective anymore.

I wouldn't go so far as to give a tax "break" to the "rich," but Obama's tax cut plan will take the number to over 50% of all Americans who receive a net gain from the Federal government. This eliminates any incentive for this over 50% to watch government spending and control costs.

 

IMHO, just about every person needs to have a minimal tax outflow to the Federal government, if only as an incentive to watch how their taxes are spent.

 

That old line "I pay may taxes so..." Well, not really.

Bingo. Time to face reality, and put the ideology on permanent hold. By definition, you cannot "make people equal" by making them unequal. There's more to it than simply $$$. There's a certain level of dignity that says: "I pay too, I may not be rich, but I am a part of society and my tax money is just as important as everybody's".

 

Of course, socialists can't abide this concept: their entire ethos is based on setting people against each other and finding scapegoats. It will be interesting to see if Obama can ignore this part of his constituency and actually keep his promise of uniting this country.

[jjamie12]

There's a certain level of dignity that says: "I pay too, I may not be rich, but I am a part of society and my tax money is just as important as everybody's".

 

Ya know, OC... I don't ever really *totally* agree with what you say (I think you take it a little too far most of the time ie: The next paragraph ), but this quote is so dead on I just had to reply with a 'me too' post. I feel like there are many, many well intentioned people running aroun trying to 'equalize' everything they possibly can, but not ever understanding that it won't work because of the above. You can't have 'equal' without that dignity that you speak of. Well done.

[OCinBuffalo]

Ya know, OC... I don't ever really *totally* agree with what you say (I think you take it a little too far most of the time ie: The next paragraph ), but this quote is so dead on I just had to reply with a 'me too' post. I feel like there are many, many well intentioned people running aroun trying to 'equalize' everything they possibly can, but not ever understanding that it won't work because of the above. You can't have 'equal' without that dignity that you speak of. Well done.

Taking it too far is part of the fun! Besides, some of the posts here are so often skewed beyond ridiculous that it's necessary to load up my counter weight to even attempt to balance things out. But you made a great point = "well intentioned" and you deserve a response: the thing is I have lived these "equalization"(or whatever) attempts by the so-called "well-intentioned" on many occasions:

 

1. I was a magnet school kid in 3 different cities(Buffalo was one), i.e. I was shipped off on a bus to a school where I was an instant minority. This was done every time based on the premise that I was a "gifted" kid so therefore my mere existence in the classroom would motivate the other kids to do better in school. The theory is called "inclusion". Seriously, there are Ph. D idiots out there that thought that was is a good idea. Yeah, 8-11 year-old nerdy white kid who just moved back into the country, who doesn't know any sport but soccer, that's the guy we send to sort out the "bad black kids"? Buffoonery.

 

So clearly there was trouble(mostly for them), but, the positive side was: I learned how to fight quite well and I learned at a very early age the truth about black people = they are the same as every other population, they have their cool people and their !@#$s. But, none of this is supposed to be happening to a grade school kid, and all the "well-intentioned" people did was create a life-long enemy of their stupidity.

 

2. I have been enrolled at or worked at a series of "Ivory Towers" and in every instance I have encountered minorities who immediately assume that I think they don't belong there, because it was handed to them, due to their race. I have always been dumbfounded at that. I was a supporter of Affirmative Action, because I had been told by my teachers that it was "right". Suddenly I was being told that I was not only a racist, but a dumbass racist who couldn't tell if other people, black or white, were good enough to be standing next to me(never mind the fact that I had my own insecurities as to whether I should be standing next to them).

 

It's these kind of bizarre results that make me think it's time for Affirmative Action to end, because it's not actually doing what it's "well intentioned" proponents had hoped: it's working in reverse! It's giving those it's intended to help a friggin' identity crisis, and making those of us around them question not their qualifications, but their sanity!

 

3. I have a fraternity brother who made a point of talking to me before accepting an Affirmative Action schooling/job opportunity. Aside from my shock as to why he would care what I thought about it, I was doubly shocked that he was assuming that I would think ill of him if he took it. I told him to take the job, kick ass, and win, like we expect from all of our guys(and hose some pigs of course ). He responded that he was sure I would have said the opposite, but was going to go out and do precisely what I said.

 

Again, we are talking about an otherwise cocky-ass fraternity guy(deservedly though) having doubts about whether his dignity would suddenly be questioned by a guy who has had his back in multiple fights. Once again, bizarre.

 

These are real stories and they form a clear pattern. Therefore I have every right to question the real intentions of these "well-intentioned" people, or at least their methods. Is this about them, or is it about the minorities/poor they are supposedly trying to help? Moreover, since this has been an issue I have had forced on me over my entire life, I'd say it's about time we stop separating people into groups and treating them differently, because the opposite approach has been failing miserably, and I have literally lived the proof of that.

[Alaska Darin]

That's some funny s#it, AD. "Wanna be Bohemian"? Outstanding! I like it.

 

Well, I have to say, with respect to having no respect for one's opinions or world view, the feeling is mutual. Haters who complain about everything, and offer nothing, are a dime a dozen. I know a lot of old men, with 6th grade educations, who sound just like you. Whining like spoiled little girls because the world doesn't work the way they want it to. Boo fuc#in hoo, AD. Just complain way, as the world passes you bye.

Ah, so pointing out the hypocrisy of your masters is the equivalent of "complaining about everything". I'm glad you know a lot of old men and want to somehow loop me in with them. It's quite likely they're wise and you're not.

 

I'm also glad that you're some how able to judge that the world is "passing me by". If I could only be plugged in enough to give a crap about Steely Dan or whichever chic you currently have a crush on.

Maybe after the apocalypse your kind will be relevant again.

What "kind" would that be? Those who are able to look at an issue truthfully, instead of blindly following some non-existent primrose path?

 

Even some of the elected Dummycrats are now calling Obama's plan a return to "trickle down" economics. I guess they're only going to be relevant after the Apocalypse as well...

[Alaska Darin]

Now you have some valid points here, but when you start with that title you are going to lose people's attention.

I'm not too concerned about losing the attention of anyone who considers themselves a Democrat. It's a virtual guarantee that they're either a complete idiot or an ideologue who simply can't face reality. Lost causes, each.

I think the alternative energy sources can have a long term benefit, but will cost us in the short term. If it pans out, we can become energy independent if we still exist.

Tough to disagree with that, though I'm sure that Washington and those who feed them cash will figure out a way to completely screw it up.

[Kelly the Dog]

Taking it too far is part of the fun! Besides, some of the posts here are so often skewed beyond ridiculous that it's necessary to load up my counter weight to even attempt to balance things out. But you made a great point = "well intentioned" and you deserve a response: the thing is I have lived these "equalization"(or whatever) attempts by the so-called "well-intentioned" on many occasions:

 

1. I was a magnet school kid in 3 different cities(Buffalo was one), i.e. I was shipped off on a bus to a school where I was an instant minority. This was done every time based on the premise that I was a "gifted" kid so therefore my mere existence in the classroom would motivate the other kids to do better in school. The theory is called "inclusion". Seriously, there are Ph. D idiots out there that thought that was is a good idea. Yeah, 8-11 year-old nerdy white kid who just moved back into the country, who doesn't know any sport but soccer, that's the guy we send to sort out the "bad black kids"? Buffoonery.

 

So clearly there was trouble(mostly for them), but, the positive side was: I learned how to fight quite well and I learned at a very early age the truth about black people = they are the same as every other population, they have their cool people and their !@#$s. But, none of this is supposed to be happening to a grade school kid, and all the "well-intentioned" people did was create a life-long enemy of their stupidity.

You choose and apply to go to magnet schools. You are not forced to go there if you do not wish to, unless it is your parents that force you to.

[Alaska Darin]

You choose and apply to go to magnet schools. You are not forced to go there if you do not wish to, unless it is your parents that force you to.

I'm sure an 8 year old "chose" to go.

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm sure an 8 year old "chose" to go.

He was saying he was forced to go to a school for the gifted as if by the government or the school system, or egads, those horrible liberals, when it was his family that made the choice. Dickhead.

 

I was a magnet school kid in 3 different cities(Buffalo was one), i.e. I was shipped off on a bus to a school where I was an instant minority. This was done every time based on the premise that I was a "gifted" kid so therefore my mere existence in the classroom would motivate the other kids to do better in school. The theory is called "inclusion". Seriously, there are Ph. D idiots out there that thought that was is a good idea. Yeah, 8-11 year-old nerdy white kid who just moved back into the country, who doesn't know any sport but soccer, that's the guy we send to sort out the "bad black kids"? Buffoonery.

[Wacka]

He was saying he was forced to go to a school for the gifted as if by the government or the school system, or egads, those horrible liberals, when it was his family that made the choice. Dickhead.

 

No. He said he as a gifted student he was put in that school to motivate the other kids to do better. He did not go to a gifted school like City Honors.

[The Dean]

He was saying he was forced to go to a school for the gifted as if by the government or the school system, or egads, those horrible liberals, when it was his family that made the choice. Dickhead.

 

 

I was designated to be bused to a mostly Black school (and area) to participate in a gifted program, for the 5th and 6th grades. My Mother didn't want me to go for the typical Mom reasons and the fear that typical White moms (and likely Black moms) had in the 60'. I didn't want to go because I didn't want to leave my best friends (some of whom were Black and bused to my school), and it didn't make any sense to me to go somewhere where they were going to make me do MORE work.

 

So...I didn't go. Never regretted it, either.

[Kelly the Dog]

No. He said he as a gifted student he was put in that school to motivate the other kids to do better. He did not go to a gifted school like City Honors.

He said he went to a "magnet school" in Buffalo. There are basically only a few magnet schools in Buffalo for "gifted" students and you have to apply to get in them. It started out with six of them total I think (magnet schools) and now there are maybe 20 of them. I assume OC went to school as a young kid in the 80s when there were still only a relative few and you had to apply to them all as they had waiting lists. I think you probably still have to apply to get in any of them, meaning it's your choice. That's the entire idea of a magnet school in fact.

[The Dean]

Ah, so pointing out the hypocrisy of your masters is the equivalent of "complaining about everything". I'm glad you know a lot of old men and want to somehow loop me in with them. It's quite likely they're wise and you're not.

 

I'm also glad that you're some how able to judge that the world is "passing me by". If I could only be plugged in enough to give a crap about Steely Dan or whichever chic you currently have a crush on.

 

What "kind" would that be? Those who are able to look at an issue truthfully, instead of blindly following some non-existent primrose path?

 

Even some of the elected Dummycrats are now calling Obama's plan a return to "trickle down" economics. I guess they're only going to be relevant after the Apocalypse as well...

 

 

So much "crazy" in such a short post. Where do we start?

 

While there is nothing inherently wrong with pointing out hypocrisy, there isn't anything really noble in it, unless that criticism is fairly rendered, targeted without bias, and the source of the criticism is free of hypocrisy him/herself. Sadly, you fail miserably as a credible source, by all of those standards. Also, attacks without alternatives or solutions tend to carry little weight with the thinking class. Somehow, I think you decided that "crabby" equals "intelligent". Let me dissuade you of that assumption.

 

Your far-right wing blather, dressed in Independent clothing, fools no one, here. At least no one with a functioning brain. A true Independent thinker, who was simply railing against the hypocrisy of the system, and was frustrated by "politics as usual" should be taking as many shots at Republicans and/or the right, as they do at Democrats and/or the left. There is very little evidence to support your claim that you simply point out hypocrisy and cherish "truth". In fact, it is fairly obvious that you are as afraid to find out that the things you were taught to believe are bulls#it, as a little girl afraid of losing the attention of her parents to the newest addition to the family. Quite frankly, it's pathetic.

 

Now, we can agree that anyone who believes that Obama is the savior of this country, and all will be well once he comes to office is simply stupid. But, you know what? I have yet to meet ONE person who believes that. In fact, in my experience, those on the right wing are FAR more likely to believe that there is only ONE way, their way, to run the country. Almost by definition, the right wing is more rigid in their beliefs, and less open to the idea that their way might be flawed. Take you, for example. You seem to believe that Obama can do no good. Why is that any less stupid, and mindless than the reverse?

 

Now, what makes you (and those of your ilk) anachronistic, is you believe you have cornered the market on what you call "truth". Well, the wold is rapidly passing by those who have no flexibility in their thinking, and whose beliefs do not evolve. Add that to the reality that you simply have yet to come to terms with the fact that politics is a messy, impure, process. To think otherwise is to believe in a Utopian fantasy...and that simply doesn't become a curmudgeon like you.

 

BTW, as far as I know, I have never discussed any chic I have a crush on, on The Wall.

[The Dean]

He said he went to a "magnet school" in Buffalo. There is basically only a few magnet schools in Buffalo for "gifted" students and you have to apply to get in them. It started out with six of them total I think (magnet schools) and now there is maybe 20 of them. I assume OC went to school as a young kid in the 80s when there were still only a relative few and you had to apply to them all as they had waiting lists. I think you probably still have to apply to get in any of them, meaning it's your choice. That's the entire idea of a magnet school in fact.

 

 

I know of no situation where a student would be sent to a magnet school, or classes for the gifted in another school district, against the will of the family. I believe forced busing was only used for integration. He may have been forced by his parents to go, but no "Ph. D idiot" made him go.

 

For what it's worth, some of the people who went to the school I rejected, loved their experience, and say it changed their lives. Others hated it, and felt the same as the poster here.

[Jim in Anchorage]

So much "crazy" in such a short post. Where do we start?

 

While there is nothing inherently wrong with pointing out hypocrisy, there isn't anything really noble in it, unless that criticism is fairly rendered, targeted without bias, and the source of the criticism is free of hypocrisy him/herself. Sadly, you fail miserably as a credible source, by all of those standards. Also, attacks without alternatives or solutions tend to carry little weight with the thinking class. Somehow, I think you decided that "crabby" equals "intelligent". Let me dissuade you of that assumption.

 

Your far-right wing blather, dressed in Independent clothing, fools no one, here. At least no one with a functioning brain. A true Independent thinker, who was simply railing against the hypocrisy of the system, and was frustrated by "politics as usual" should be taking as many shots at Republicans and/or the right, as they do at Democrats and/or the left. There is very little evidence to support your claim that you simply point out hypocrisy and cherish "truth". In fact, it is fairly obvious that you are as afraid to find out that the things you were taught to believe are bulls#it, as a little girl afraid of losing the attention of her parents to the newest addition to the family. Quite frankly, it's pathetic.

 

Now, we can agree that anyone who believes that Obama is the savior of this country, and all will be well once he comes to office is simply stupid. But, you know what? I have yet to meet ONE person who believes that. In fact, in my experience, those on the right wing are FAR more likely to believe that there is only ONE way, their way, to run the country. Almost by definition, the right wing is more rigid in their beliefs, and less open to the idea that their way might be flawed. Take you, for example. You seem to believe that Obama can do no good. Why is that any less stupid, and mindless than the reverse?

 

Now, what makes you (and those of your ilk) anachronistic, is you believe you have cornered the market on what you call "truth". Well, the wold is rapidly passing by those who have no flexibility in their thinking, and whose beliefs do not evolve. Add that to the reality that you simply have yet to come to terms with the fact that politics is a messy, impure, process. To think otherwise is to believe in a Utopian fantasy...and that simply doesn't become a curmudgeon like you.

 

BTW, as far as I know, I have never discussed any chic I have a crush on, on The Wall.

Man you write the most boring crap I have ever read.

[The Dean]

Man you write the most boring crap I have ever read.

 

 

Some of the words too big for you, Corky?

[ExiledInIllinois]

Man you write the most boring crap I have ever read.

 

Facts suck. Getting owned sucks too, that is why you find it boring.

[Alaska Darin]

So much "crazy" in such a short post. Where do we start?

 

While there is nothing inherently wrong with pointing out hypocrisy, there isn't anything really noble in it, unless that criticism is fairly rendered, targeted without bias, and the source of the criticism is free of hypocrisy him/herself. Sadly, you fail miserably as a credible source, by all of those standards. Also, attacks without alternatives or solutions tend to carry little weight with the thinking class. Somehow, I think you decided that "crabby" equals "intelligent". Let me dissuade you of that assumption.

What alternative solutions are available now that the 2 "parties" have completely skewed the playing fields so no other party or individual can even get a seat at the table? The real "alternative" is to return the federal government to ONLY its Constitutional responsibilities but with the current level of stupidity coursing through the electorate, there's absolutely zero chance of that every happening.

 

The rest of that paragraph is typical hypocrisy.

Your far-right wing blather, dressed in Independent clothing, fools no one, here. At least no one with a functioning brain. A true Independent thinker, who was simply railing against the hypocrisy of the system, and was frustrated by "politics as usual" should be taking as many shots at Republicans and/or the right, as they do at Democrats and/or the left. There is very little evidence to support your claim that you simply point out hypocrisy and cherish "truth". In fact, it is fairly obvious that you are as afraid to find out that the things you were taught to believe are bulls#it, as a little girl afraid of losing the attention of her parents to the newest addition to the family. Quite frankly, it's pathetic.

Oh look, more typical partisan tactics. Anyone who isn't a liberal is immediately "far right". In my case, nothing could be further from the truth. You will rarely see me joining in with the liberals on this board because it's equally rare to see them bring a single issue to the table that has any merit.

 

Let's see. I was against the Iraq war. I was against the "Patriot" Act. I was against the formation of the Department of Homeland Security. I think homosexuals should be allowed to marry. I think abortion and drugs should be legal (and in most cases retroactive). I'm totally against religion in government. Let me know which of those is a staple of the "far right", will you?

 

I was for tax cuts but said they didn't go anywhere near far enough and I was against virtually all spending increases that the current administration levied.

 

The fact is, you and the rest of the partisans read exactly what you want to. There's no secret that my politics rarely lineup with liberal "ideology" because I understand the appetites of the powerful when they get unlimited access to other people's money and refuse to turn a blind eye for the sake of "pie in the sky".

 

Now, we can agree that anyone who believes that Obama is the savior of this country, and all will be well once he comes to office is simply stupid. But, you know what? I have yet to meet ONE person who believes that. In fact, in my experience, those on the right wing are FAR more likely to believe that there is only ONE way, their way, to run the country. Almost by definition, the right wing is more rigid in their beliefs, and less open to the idea that their way might be flawed. Take you, for example. You seem to believe that Obama can do no good. Why is that any less stupid, and mindless than the reverse?

Because it's reality. About the only thing the last administration did was raise the levels on retirement savings but even they couldn't bring themselves to take the government's hands off it by simply indexing it for inflation. The administration before that did even less for the average American. I know it's hard to fathom that the system is entirely broken - but it is.

Now, what makes you (and those of your ilk) anachronistic, is you believe you have cornered the market on what you call "truth". Well, the wold is rapidly passing by those who have no flexibility in their thinking, and whose beliefs do not evolve.

That's so stupid it's just funny. Now pretending that Republicans and Democrats are somehow different is "flexible" thinking.

Add that to the reality that you simply have yet to come to terms with the fact that politics is a messy, impure, process. To think otherwise is to believe in a Utopian fantasy...and that simply doesn't become a curmudgeon like you.

Really? I haven't come to terms with the fact (sic) that politics is a messy, impure process? Yet I'm the one that thinks the federal government should be severely limited in their power and you are an avowed liberal. Yep, you're facing reality.