dave mcbride Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Why is Ralph dedicated to Modrak and Guy, two guys who have done little to nothing in their tenure? 12:12 Mark Gaughan: I was not in the room, obviously, but I guarantee John Guy did not go into the front office in 2006 and say, "Larry Tripplett is my No. 1 DT, this guy is a stud.' He did not jump on the desk and say, 'Robert Royal is the answer to all our problems at TE.' ... He gave them those two players as the best options within the budget ... Modrak, I don't believe, picked JP or Willis. Did he pick McCargo? Yes. ... http://buffalonews.typepad.com/billboard/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think what Gaugan is saying is actually reasonable. Every bad acquisition in the draft can't be pinned to the amateur scouting director. Each bad UFA signing isn't the fault of the pro personnel director. But there are some, and there needs to be accountability. Still, I think DJ made some personnel decisions over and above what Guy and Modrak advocated. Modrak was clearly burned in making the McCargo. Every personnel guy in the NFL makes mistakes, even Polian, Newsome, and AJ Smith. One thing I've noticed about Buffalo's two-headed personnel monster: Neither of them are ever mentioned for jobs elsehwere in the NFL. With guys like Kokinis and Pioli reportedly heading elsewhere, I find it revealing about Buffalo's front office that none of them ever go to another team since they arrived earlier this decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think what is interesting in the chat is that he is VERY convinved that the Bills will be active in Free Agency. I know I am in the minority, but I actually think Ralph was doing what he felt was best(doesn't mean he is right) for this team to win next year by keeping Dickie boy and staff. Ralph also knows he has a marketing diaster on his hands and knows there is one way to plactate us, give us a stud DE/or DT, as well as a decent TE(by decent i mean a name we all know). I know I may be dreaming here, but I think a Haynesworth type might find his way to WNY this off season. Not looking for a bunch of nsaty replies that say never will happen and that we can't win with dickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think what Gaugan is saying is actually reasonable. Every bad acquisition in the draft can't be pinned to the amateur scouting director. Each bad UFA signing isn't the fault of the pro personnel director. But there are some, and there needs to be accountability. Still, I think DJ made some personnel decisions over and above what Guy and Modrak advocated. Modrak was clearly burned in making the McCargo. Every personnel guy in the NFL makes mistakes, even Polian, Newsome, and AJ Smith. One thing I've noticed about Buffalo's two-headed personnel monster: Neither of them are ever mentioned for jobs elsehwere in the NFL. With guys like Kokinis and Pioli reportedly heading elsewhere, I find it revealing about Buffalo's front office that none of them ever go to another team since they arrived earlier this decade. yep. Donahoe, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think what is interesting in the chat is that he is VERY convinved that the Bills will be active in Free Agency. I know I am in the minority, but I actually think Ralph was doing what he felt was best(doesn't mean he is right) for this team to win next year by keeping Dickie boy and staff. Ralph also knows he has a marketing diaster on his hands and knows there is one way to plactate us, give us a stud DE/or DT, as well as a decent TE(by decent i mean a name we all know). I know I may be dreaming here, but I think a Haynesworth type might find his way to WNY this off season. Not looking for a bunch of nsaty replies that say never will happen and that we can't win with dickie Never will happen and we cant win with dickie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Never will happen and we cant win with dickie. Opened myself up for that eh????? BTW, draft another DB in the form of that Mays kid from USC. Put him at OLB instaed of Ellison. Might not be able to cover or stop the run, but he will HIT people hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think what is interesting in the chat is that he is VERY convinved that the Bills will be active in Free Agency. I know I am in the minority, but I actually think Ralph was doing what he felt was best(doesn't mean he is right) for this team to win next year by keeping Dickie boy and staff. Ralph also knows he has a marketing diaster on his hands and knows there is one way to plactate us, give us a stud DE/or DT, as well as a decent TE(by decent i mean a name we all know). I know I may be dreaming here, but I think a Haynesworth type might find his way to WNY this off season. Not looking for a bunch of nsaty replies that say never will happen and that we can't win with dickie I don't think Ralph cares about the marketing thing at all. He delegates (and pays) Russ Brandon to handle that regardless of who the coach or players are. It's a mistake to assume RW is concerned with this issue, although I'm sure RB raised the issue at the inner circle meetings last week. We all know his opinion counted for very little when it came to deciding the HC by now. I will not assume this team spends money on UFA's, primarily because RW has never been a big spender. The money spent on Dockery and Walker two years ago got the just above the minimum the team had to pay for players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Why is Ralph dedicated to Modrak and Guy, two guys who have done little to nothing in their tenure? 12:12 Mark Gaughan: I was not in the room, obviously, but I guarantee John Guy did not go into the front office in 2006 and say, "Larry Tripplett is my No. 1 DT, this guy is a stud.' He did not jump on the desk and say, 'Robert Royal is the answer to all our problems at TE.' ... He gave them those two players as the best options within the budget ... Modrak, I don't believe, picked JP or Willis. Did he pick McCargo? Yes. ... http://buffalonews.typepad.com/billboard/ This has been my question all year long, who chooses the roster? I've been saying all along that John Guy's job is to scout the talent out there then report who is available. I didn't think John Guy was the one that wanted to sign Dustin Fox, Teddy Lehman, Jon Stupar. Who ever made those decisions need to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 This has been my question all year long, who chooses the roster? I've been saying all along that John Guy's job is to scout the talent out there then report who is available. I didn't think John Guy was the one that wanted to sign Dustin Fox, Teddy Lehman, Jon Stupar. Who ever made those decisions need to go. I think DJ has more say as a HC on the roster than do most NFL HC's. With an inexperienced marketing guy moonlighting as a GM, who else would decide on guys. Guy most likely has a list of street FA's, but DJ has final say. Lehman played for him in Detroit, so connect the dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Ray Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think DJ has more say as a HC on the roster than do most NFL HC's. With an inexperienced marketing guy moonlighting as a GM, who else would decide on guys. Guy most likely has a list of street FA's, but DJ has final say. Lehman played for him in Detroit, so connect the dots. All the more reason DJ should have been jettisoned. Especially after Ralph himself said the team lacked talent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 All the more reason DJ should have been jettisoned. Especially after Ralph himself said the team lacked talent! This is a John Guy thread, and I don't want to turn it into an anti-DJ one. But it's worth asking the question about who has more say on the final roster, DJ or the guy leading the front office without a speck of experience handling NFL personnel? John Guy's job, as a previous poster mentioned, is to develop reports on potential free agents, both restricted and unrestricted. In this role, he would ordinarily serve the GM and be the reference point for questions about free agents. He probably has input into acquiring which players, but not as much as a GM would. Someone has to carry the ball in the absence of a real GM. I would hope Brandon isn't trying to decide where this team is headed big-picture wise. So that leaves DJ making a lot of calls, when in fact his moves are probably questionable at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Why is Ralph dedicated to Modrak and Guy, two guys who have done little to nothing in their tenure? 12:12 Mark Gaughan: I was not in the room, obviously, but I guarantee John Guy did not go into the front office in 2006 and say, "Larry Tripplett is my No. 1 DT, this guy is a stud.' He did not jump on the desk and say, 'Robert Royal is the answer to all our problems at TE.' ... He gave them those two players as the best options within the budget ... Modrak, I don't believe, picked JP or Willis. Did he pick McCargo? Yes. ... http://buffalonews.typepad.com/billboard/ Maybe, maybe not - I seem to recall a Bills Booster Meeting Report here from last offseason - perhaps by Cindy. I can't remember the exact details - But it went something like this - someone in the audience mentioned if they'll be looking for a pass catching TE in the draft. John Guy said they were all set with Robert Royal. Russ Brandon snickered. I knew then that Brandon was a better "football" guy than Guy. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Maybe, maybe not - I seem to recall a Bills Booster Meeting Report here from last offseason - perhaps by Cindy. I can't remember the exact details - But it went something like this - someone in the audience mentioned if they'll be looking for a pass catching TE in the draft. John Guy said they were all set with Robert Royal. Russ Brandon snickered. I knew then that Brandon was a better "football" guy than Guy. C Lori mentioned that a long time ago, I remember having the same reaction. I think Guy probably made the recommendation to acquire RR, and Brandon knew it. Even a master marketer like RB couldn't help but admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I find it revealing about Buffalo's front office that none of them ever go to another team since they arrived earlier this decade. Simple--job offers go to guys from winning programs. That doesn't guarantee sucsess with a new team, but it's how the game's played (whether in the NFL or IBM). Bright and shiny baubles get the most attention.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 To me John Guy is irrelevant until we start drafting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 To me John Guy is irrelevant until we start drafting better. Mmmmmm.....seriously? I like our drafts better than free agents we have brought in. Although I would give some props to the notion that Guy is doing what he can within budget constraints (a.k.a. our tightwad of an owner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 This nonsense I keep hearing about how the Bills picked a few players who didn't work out high in the draft and so their front office is horrible is just utter garbage. Its the type of things that are written by people who just have no knowledge or understanding of the draft and all the variables that go into it. I actually did a pretty thorough draft study for a football game I was working on, which included the 1990-2000 drafts. I loaded every single player who was drafted into a DB and basically assigned them a grade based on formulas I created to score individual positions(the score wasn't as important as the information that was found out). What was learned is that the BEST---BEST, not WORST---GMs in the NFL get their first round picks right about 50% of the time. It goes downhill from there. So for everyone crying about the Bills missing on a pick here and there, its completely normal. Even the best scouting and personnel departments do it---a lot...a lot more than most people realize. The further down the draft, the lower the percentage of players that became good or great players. What I found consistently among the better teams is they were able to find "gems" in the later rounds much, much more consistently than the poor teams. Not necessarily superstar players, but players who were good enough to play significant roles on the team---either start, or be a key backup to provide really good depth so when a starter got hurt, there wouldn't be much dropoff in play---of course there is always the occasional star late in the draft too. This is where the people looking at how the draft went should be looking at the Bills. Overall I think they have done a pretty respectable job of drafting---obviously it could be better, but it could be a whole lot worse as well. Just look at all the teams who have multiple first round picks in the past few years who are either out of the NFL, have been cut, or are a backup who never sees the field... However, saying the Bills have a bad draft record because they have missed on 50% of their players in the first round is actually saying they are pretty darn good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 What was learned is that the BEST---BEST, not WORST---GMs in the NFL get their first round picks right about 50% of the time. It goes downhill from there. Colts 1st rounders since hiring Polian: 2007 Anthony Gonzalez 2006 Joseph Addai 2005 Marlin Jackson 2003 Dallas Clark 2002 Dwight Freeney 2001 Reggie Wayne 2000 Rob Morris 1999 Edgerrin James 1998 Peyton Manning Patriots 1st rounders since hiring Belichick/Pioli: 2008 Jerod Mayo 2007 Brandon Meriweather 2006 Laurence Maroney 2005 Logan Mankins 2004 Vince Wilfork 2004 Ben Watson 2003 Ty Warren 2002 Daniel Graham 2001 Richard Seymour Ravens 1st rounders since promoting Ozzie Newsome: 2008 Joe Flacco 2007 Ben Grubbs 2006 Haloti Ngata 2005 Mark Clayton 2003 Terrell Suggs 2003 Kyle Boller 2002 Ed Reed 2001 Todd Heap 2000 Jamal Lewis 2000 Travis Taylor 1999 Chris McAlister 1998 Duane Starks 1997 Peter Boulware 1996 Jonathan Ogden 1996 Ray Lewis Not sure where you're getting that 50% mark from. I think the league's best executives can clearly put the majority of their 1st round picks to good use. If we're going to compete with these teams despite a small budget, 50% will not cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Not sure where you're getting that 50% mark from. I think the league's best executives can clearly put the majority of their 1st round picks to good use. If we're going to compete with these teams despite a small budget, 50% will not cut it. Seems to me that 50% is more of an average across the entire league. The Colts', Patriots'*, and Ravens' picks you detailed clearly are the best over the past 10+ years, but I'm sure we can find a few teams whose entire group of first rounders were colossal busts or just didn't make it. Regarding who has the most say in personnel, I'm leaning towards Jauron. My gut tells me that he makes the decision on the personnel with input from Guy & Modrak and lets Brandon do the contract negotiating. In other words, Jauron is pretty much the GM without the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Modrak is a pretty straight shooter. You can usually tell from his pre-daft comments which players he advocates. This year, I thought he clearly had his eye on McKelvin from day one, suggesting that he was definitely a top 10 player. Last year he also couldn't say enough great things about Lynch -- almost to the point where some folks thought he was just blowing smoke. I never got the impression that he was especially high on Whitner, JP or Willis. In fact, the year that the Bills took McGahee, he seemed to be all over Rasheen Mathis. I get the impression that DJ identifies the positions (along priority lines) that need upgrading. Modrak provides his list of such players that could potentially fill the voids and assigns a grade to each player. Then, round by round, the FO reaches a consensus on who they want to draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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