Serious question for the anti-Kerry crowd

[Kelly the Dog]

Please explain to me why exactly you think Kerry will not fight the war on terror, is a pacifist, and will lay down and let the world stomp all over us. Seriously. Please do not just say that he voted against weapons systems because you are discounting all the times, just as many times, that he voted for or in favor of weapons systems. There have been about four major wars in his adult lifetime. He volunteered to go to Vietnam and fought as a soldier. He was FOR the wars in Bosnia and this last Gulf War (as well as for the military action in Panama, Somalia, Haiti, and even Grenada.) The only time he was against a war it seems was the first Gulf War. That's 3 out of 4 in major military conflicts in his life, as well as most or all of the latest smaller military conflicts. Are you just ignoring this? He has NEVER even intimated that we should get out of Iraq immediately. He has pledged even more troops. He lobbied for ground troops as an option in the Bosnian war for crissakes. He's a hunter. He has always been for war and for being tough, and yet you guys seem to just align him with wimpy or pacifist Democrats of the past for no reason. This guy is for war.

 

You may hate him, you may think Bush will do a better job, but how, seriously, can anyone say that this guy is not pro military and pro war, or conclude that he is a wimp?

[SD Jarhead]

Have you been asleep for the whole campaign?

 

1st off, I don't hate the man. But I hate the fact that he doesen't stand for anything other than getting himself elected. That's it.

 

I think he is anti-military, and has been since 1971 or before. What he did to veterans is unforgivable in my book.

 

He's a hunter?...Do I really need to go there? Puleese...

 

As far as him being for the war. I really can't tell you whether he was for it or against it. Heck, I don't think he even knows anymore. And I'k not being a smartass either.

 

Kelly, ask yourself, why do you think JK's running for election?

[_BiB_]

Please explain to me why exactly you think Kerry will not fight the war on terror, is a pacifist, and will lay down and let the world stomp all over us. Seriously. Please do not just say that he voted against weapons systems because you are discounting all the times, just as many times, that he voted for or in favor of weapons systems. There have been about four major wars in his his adult lifetime. He volunteered to go to Vietnam and fought as a soldier. He was FOR the wars in Bosnia and this last Gulf War (as well as for the military action in Panama, Somalia, Haiti, and even Grenada.) The only time he was against a war it seems was the first Gulf War. That's 3 out of 4 in major military conflicts in his life, as well as most or all of the latest smaller military conflicts. Are you just ignoring this? He has NEVER even intimated that we should get out of Iraq immediately. He has pledged even more troops. He lobbied for ground troops as an option in the Bosnian war for crissakes. He's a hunter. He has always been for war and for being tough, and yet you guys seem to just align him with wimpy or pacifist Democrats of the past for no reason. This guy is for war.

 

You may hate him, you may think Bush will do a better job, but how, seriously, can anyone say that this guy is not pro military and pro war, or conclude that he is a wimp?

91676[/snapback]

 

If anything he has said can be believed, I personally believe his overall strategic outlook is wrong. I'm especially warry of his thoughts on homeland defense. Firetrucks are not the solution to the problem. I'm very warry on his continuance of naming Al Qaida as the enemy, which, while true-ignores the larger problem. I'm close enough to this to know where the lies and misrepresentations are. I'm aware of what the GWOT actually is, and what's being done to prosecute it. I'm very aware of the counterproliferation strategies being executed now. I'm acutely aware of the transformational efforts being accomplished within the DoD. They are the right ones to make. Kerry's announced "plans" regarding the subject are counter-productive to what is actually working, and the further changes that have to be made. I freely admit, I have a tremendously unfair advantage here in terms of information, but I have it none the less. I make no comment on the rest of it, but I know-from working at DoD policy and planning level every day, that Kerry is the wrong choice in terms of Defense.

[Kelly the Dog]

Have you been asleep for the whole campaign?

 

1st off, I don't hate the man. But I hate the fact that he doesen't stand for anything other than getting himself elected. That's it.

 

I think he is anti-military, and has been since 1971 or before. What he did to veterans is unforgivable in my book.

 

He's a hunter?...Do I really need to go there? Puleese...

 

As far as him being for the war. I really can't tell you whether he was for it or against it. Heck, I don't think he even knows anymore. And I'k not being a smartass either.

 

Kelly, ask yourself, why do you think JK's running for election?

91688[/snapback]

He is running for the same reason that everyone in your lifetime has run, because he wants to be President of the United States, the highest job a politician can aspire to. The same reason Bush and Clinton and Reagan and everyone else ran. He honestly believes (right or wrong, I think wrong because there are better Democrats) that he is the best man for the job. Read: Ego. Just like GWB.

 

But how do you base this "anti-military" thing when he has been for all these military actions, with real votes or speeches on the floor of the Senate. Yes, he says anything to get elected but so does everyone else, including Bus right now. His record is that he is for war 90% of the times the issue is brought up. I brught up the fact that he is a hunter because he is pro-gun and pro-Second Amendment and really has been a hunter despite his idiotic photo-op. He did volunteer for war and he did come back VERY disillusioned by what he saw in that war. You have a legitimate gripe about what he did for veterans (although I believe differently) but he has not been antiu-military during his career.

[Paco]

There are more worldly types out there who can provide you a better answer, but my answer simply comes down to this:

 

Kerry has done nothing but outline in crayons how he plans to move forward in the war on terror and through those colors has implied, as I have inferred, that he wants to cut back on fighting on their turf in exchange for bolstering our turf. Part of his plan is to increase our armed forces by 40,000, which sounds nice, but he doesn't say (1) how he'll do it and (2) how and where he'll deploy them. It's fine to have 40,000 other troops, but what's the plan once you have them?

 

I'm also of the mindset that we ARE fighting the war on terror in Iraq. I'm not convinced he sees it that way, and in fact I'm not convinced the whole world sees it that when we keep referring to them as "insurgents." Regardless, I believe the war in Iraq is a part of the war on terror, and his plan is to get our guys out of there....uhhhh...exactly WHEN again? Was it six months? By the end of his term? In two years? Even still, his plan is to get out of there so he can bring our troops home. That sounds all comfy cozy, but I like taking the fight to them there rather than bringing everyone home and bringing the fight back here.

 

This has nothing to do with his time in Vietnam (you brought this up, not me, so forget Bush's record for the minute...this is about Kerry), as far as I'm concerned, because I still have absolutely, positively NO idea (1)how he was only there for four months and (2) how he managed to get injured three times in those four months? Was he brave or incompetent? I'd really like to know how he got home so quickly when everyone else had to stay behind. I subscribe to the theory that he took the chance at volunteering strictly for his record, saw how messed up it was, and got himself out as fast as he could. To this day, no one has told me how he got home in four months.

 

But more than anything else, everything I've read about him and heard him say shows a clear and obvious path of pandering and indecisiveness. I find it humourous that he sits at the debate saying "I've never waivered," and yet it is so blatantly clear that he has. Repeatedly. Just reading his comments today in that article about Afghanistan was enough to seal the deal for me on this issue. He says one thing at one time, then says something else when it's more appropriate.

 

I don't want a personality like that running our country, let alone fighting the war on terror. I just don't. He displays absolutely no confidence, and I'm convinced a man of his nature will turn us into the most pussified sanction-happy country since Clinton was in charge.

 

You can call Bush stupid. You can call him out on his mistakes. But I know where he stands. No waivering. No pandering. I'll take that any day.

[outsidethebox]

I'm sorry BiB, I find it hard to believe that if you are privilidged to secret information from the DoD, that you would be on a Bills politics board endorsing Bush.

 

I have nothing against you supporting Bush, that is your right. What I don't appreciate is your endorsing Bush because of your inside information you may or may not have.

[stuckincincy]

He is running for the same reason that everyone in your lifetime has run, because he wants to be President of the United States, the highest job a politician can aspire to. The same reason Bush and Clinton and Reagan and everyone else ran. He honestly believes (right or wrong, I think wrong because there are better Democrats) that he is the best man for the job. Read: Ego. Just like GWB.

 

But how do you base this "anti-military" thing when he has been for all these military actions, with real votes or speeches on the floor of the Senate. Yes, he says anything to get elected but so does everyone else, including Bus right now. His record is that he is for war 90% of the times the issue is brought up. I brught up the fact that he is a hunter because he is pro-gun and pro-Second Amendment and really has been a hunter despite his idiotic photo-op. He did volunteer for war and he did come back VERY disillusioned by what he saw in that war. You have a legitimate gripe about what he did for veterans (although I believe differently) but he has not been antiu-military during his career.

91713[/snapback]

 

Isn't Kerry supporting a Lautenberg bill banning pump and semi-automatic shotguns? He was the fellow that got inserted compliments of the NJ Supreme Court piddling on existing NJ Law at the last moment so Frankie got inserted into the ballot sans him having any primary candidacy for Senator in NJ, when Torricelli left town, so to speak? The same bunch that disenfranchiced the voters of NJ by allowing Gov. McGreevey to step down after Nov. 2 so billionaire Jon Corzine can leave the US Senate, get the Governorship and then appoint a new US Senator in his place with the people's input being totally cut out?

 

Ah, the Party of The People...you must be brimming with pride..,

[KRC]

I'm sorry BiB, I find it hard to believe that if you are privilidged to secret information from the DoD, that you would be on a Bills politics board endorsing Bush.

 

I have nothing against you supporting Bush, that is your right. What I don't appreciate is your endorsing Bush because of your inside information you may or may not have.

91722[/snapback]

 

Ummm...It is not like he posts TS information here. He is giving you a perspective that few here can give you.

 

This is a politics board. He is talking politics. This is a sub-board of a Bills board. He is a Bills fan. Seems like a good fit to me.

[Alaska Darin]

I'm sorry BiB, I find it hard to believe that if you are privilidged to secret information from the DoD, that you would be on a Bills politics board endorsing Bush.

 

I have nothing against you supporting Bush, that is your right. What I don't appreciate is your endorsing Bush because of your inside information you may or may not have.

91722[/snapback]

And you'd be as wrong as you are about your choice of candidates. Don't let that dissuade you from continuing to make an ass of yourself. We do need fodder.

[_BiB_]

I'm sorry BiB, I find it hard to believe that if you are privilidged to secret information from the DoD, that you would be on a Bills politics board endorsing Bush.

 

I have nothing against you supporting Bush, that is your right. What I don't appreciate is your endorsing Bush because of your inside information you may or may not have.

91722[/snapback]

 

Most of it is not secret. It's in the public domain for the most part. Just takes a desire to dig for it. Much more than can be covered in a thread post.There are a lot of people within the DoD who actively support both candidates.

 

And I could give a rats ass of what you appreciate or not. For several years I've brought information to this board to try to shed some light on given topics. Some people appreciate that. I've often appreciated the insights I've received from people in the financial industry, or the lawyers, or many others with specialized knowledge in their field. You happen to work wherever you do doing whatever you do. I happen to work for the Defense Agency that is responsible for keeping WMD out of the hands of bad guys. Of course there is a lot of specific things I won't post, but the general info is there for anyone who wants to find it. This is Kelly's thread, I don't think he questions my credibility.

[Alaska Darin]

Please explain to me why exactly you think Kerry will not fight the war on terror, is a pacifist, and will lay down and let the world stomp all over us. Seriously. Please do not just say that he voted against weapons systems because you are discounting all the times, just as many times, that he voted for or in favor of weapons systems. There have been about four major wars in his adult lifetime. He volunteered to go to Vietnam and fought as a soldier. He was FOR the wars in Bosnia and this last Gulf War (as well as for the military action in Panama, Somalia, Haiti, and even Grenada.) The only time he was against a war it seems was the first Gulf War. That's 3 out of 4 in major military conflicts in his life, as well as most or all of the latest smaller military conflicts. Are you just ignoring this? He has NEVER even intimated that we should get out of Iraq immediately. He has pledged even more troops. He lobbied for ground troops as an option in the Bosnian war for crissakes. He's a hunter. He has always been for war and for being tough, and yet you guys seem to just align him with wimpy or pacifist Democrats of the past for no reason. This guy is for war.

 

You may hate him, you may think Bush will do a better job, but how, seriously, can anyone say that this guy is not pro military and pro war, or conclude that he is a wimp?

91676[/snapback]

During the last seven Congresses, John Kerry has sponsored or cosponsored legislation that would, on average, increase non-defense federal spending by $74.9 billion. During that same period, he was proposing legislation which, on average, would cut defense and homeland security spending by $101 million (see Table 1).

 

During the Congresses since September 11, 2001, Senator Kerry has proposed $84 in increased non-defense spending for every dollar of defense spending increases that he has sponsored or cosponsored.

 

Strength and honor.

 

Statistics courtesy of National Taxpayers Union.

[erynthered]

He was FOR the wars in Bosnia and this last Gulf War

 

 

The only time he was against a war it seems was the first Gulf War.

 

So which is it? You've been listening him so much even you dont know. KTD, you're one of the few lefties I like to read, but this is an example of what people on the left think like. I voted for, than against? WTF?

 

 

 

[outsidethebox]

Name Calling AD, how old are you?

 

I think the real "ass" has shown itself.

[GG]

It is not the fact that he supported legislation favoring wars that were going on, but the general voting record for military and intelligence initiatives.

 

I imagine one reason that there are few Senators who are elected Presidents, is that I firmly believe that you have a different mindset and a personality to do the two jobs. Being one of 100 Sens, Kerry's big job is forging alliances and trying to do best for Massachussetts. His ability there may not be a good indicator of whether he'll be a good CEO. One measure could have been his propensity to stick hi sneck out to propose new legislations. My recollection on his success there is scant.

 

Thus, going back to your question, why would I not feel comfortable with Kerry as CIC? To me he doesn't strike like a guy who would stand firm on an unpopular short term decision, even if it meant a better outlook for the future. (I also hold the same opinion on Kerry's economic policy)

[VabeachBledsoefan]

Ummm...It is not like he posts TS information here. He is giving you a perspective that few here can give you.

 

This is a politics board. He is talking politics. This is a sub-board of a Bills board. He is a Bills fan. Seems like a good fit to me.

91730[/snapback]

Good god boys....I have a sensitive compartment TS clearance......and I do know things....but I want say on here..I know this , but I won't tell you...

[_BiB_]

Name Calling AD, how old are you?

 

I think the real "ass" has shown itself.

91738[/snapback]

 

I thought the "may or may not have" was a pretty good dig as well. You don't come around here much. Over the last year or so I've posted about 500 posts on why I think the way I do, and explanations of what some things seen in the news that can be very confusing if not fully explained really mean. If you want to discuss weapons counter-proliferations strategies as they apply to fundamentalist Islamic movements I'd be happy to engage.

 

Go vote for Kerry, I don't care. Wish you wouldn't, but it's your choice.

[Alaska Darin]

Name Calling AD, how old are you?

 

I think the real "ass" has shown itself.

91738[/snapback]

Calling it as I see it. I don't care if you agree. You're still wrong.

[KRC]

Good god boys....I have a sensitive compartment TS clearance......and I do know things....but I want say on here..I know this ,  but I won't tell you...

91750[/snapback]

 

Your point would be what?

[_BiB_]

Good god boys....I have a sensitive compartment TS clearance......and I do know things....but I want say on here..I know this ,  but I won't tell you...

91750[/snapback]

 

Once again, that part comes with the job, and is largely irrelevant to what's being discussed. What is germane, is that because of what I do I have to have some understanding of the background and the mechanisms to accomplish what needs to be accomplished. I've tried to share some of that with you guys. Most of the classified stuff doesn't really apply here. Like I said, most everything anyone wants to know is in the public domain. I've posted many a link, because I know where to find it as I use it in my work.

 

Yes, I am close to this. It galls me when I hear Kerry talking about transforming the military to be better able to fight the war on terror, when I know it's exactly what we're doing. Seems to say Bush and his crew aren't doing it. It pisses me off to hear Kerry talk about not doing anything meaningful about nuclear proliferation when I work at the agency that oversees the destruction of nuclear, chemical and biological arsenals. It bugs the crap out of me to hear his comments on ignoring homeland defense, when I'm a sitting member of some of the related planning committees. All this stuff is out there, if you want to look. Nobody ever does, and now it's too late.

[_BiB_]

I'll also add that 95% of the people who actually do this stuff are not appointees, and don't have a political stake. They'll be doing it regardless of who gets elected. They are the ones who actually draw up the nuts and bolts of how things get done. We have an administration now that has made some mistakes in a totally uncharted field, and has learned a lot from them. The lessons learned are being implemented every day. Policy doesn't get enacted quickly, or on a whim. It takes months and sometimes years for an action to go from an idea to an active program. and, it needs to be that way to avoid making more mistakes. We're still fleshing out stuff from the Clinton administration. Homeland Defense? An entire military Combat Command was created by this administration to help deal with the problems. Check out www.Northcom.mil.