bizell Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I guess if Manning gets injured and Jim Sorgi puts up ridiculous numbers, then Manning will be considered a system QB. until then...
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Your reasons for why Tommy boy is the greatest QB of this generation is the reason why I say it is the system. His first two super bowl wins where due in large part to the Pats* defense and a great offensive line. Now the defense and O line are getting older and not so great (look at last years win by the Giants). The fact that Branch, Givens and Patton did not produce for other teams is because of the system they were in, it helped them become better players. Manning has great players around him but has never had a great defensive unit. He has always had to out score the other team. Plus the Colts are in the playoffs this year and the Pats* are not. So who is to say the Colts (Manning) does not win another Super bowl. I think the Pats are gonna trade Brady... Would make sense. Id like to see Brady play in someone elses system.... Could be like Culpepper without moss...
BuffaloBlood Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I guess if Manning gets injured and Jim Sorgi puts up ridiculous numbers, then Manning will be considered a system QB. until then... Thats an idiotic statement. Peyton has not missed a game. When have we ever seen Sorgi play? What maybe a quarter here and there when Peyton is pulled in a blowout? Does not diminish my argument.
bizell Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Thats an idiotic statement. Peyton has not missed a game. When have we ever seen Sorgi play? What maybe a quarter here and there when Peyton is pulled in a blowout? Does not diminish my argument. nearly as idiotic as the 'come talk to me when Peyton has rings 2 and 3' statement you made.
BuffaloBlood Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I dont buy any argument for a system QB. I dont think that they exist. Isnt the point of the QB to execute the system he is in? So if its a good system the QB cant get any credit?
BuffaloBlood Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 nearly as idiotic as the 'come talk to me when Peyton has rings 2 and 3' statement you made. Why? Isnt the reason that Jimbo is not a top 5 QB due to the fact he doesnt have a ring? I agree that rings is not everything, hence the Trent Dilfer argument, but when you are comparing 2 sure fire hall of famer QBs how is that not the measuring stick?
stuckincincy Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Thats an idiotic statement. Peyton has not missed a game. When have we ever seen Sorgi play? What maybe a quarter here and there when Peyton is pulled in a blowout? Does not diminish my argument. Most pre-seasons since '04, and at the end of a regular season when the Colts have a spot locked up. He knows the playbook. Like NE's* Cassel.
bizell Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Why? Isnt the reason that Jimbo is not a top 5 QB due to the fact he doesnt have a ring? I agree that rings is not everything, hence the Trent Dilfer argument, but when you are comparing 2 sure fire hall of famer QBs how is that not the measuring stick? Don't get me wrong, Tom Brady is a great QB, Hall-of-fame worthy,but I don't think he's the best. like i said earlier, tom brady rode vinatieri's foot to where his legend is of epic proportions. yes, he was clutch in those game-winning drives, but it's adam V that brought the victories. throw in the fact that brady has generally had top-10 defenses his entire career and that the first SB win never should have happened, I don't think he's the best quarterback ever.
BuffaloBlood Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Don't get me wrong, Tom Brady is a great QB, Hall-of-fame worthy,but I don't think he's the best. like i said earlier, tom brady rode vinatieri's foot to where his legend is of epic proportions. yes, he was clutch in those game-winning drives, but it's adam V that brought the victories. throw in the fact that brady has generally had top-10 defenses his entire career and that the first SB win never should have happened, I don't think he's the best quarterback ever. Hey Im not saying its an open and shut case and I will even somewhat buy the argument about Adam V Im just not big on the "system Quarterback" crap that is flung around......
Steve In Atlanta 2008 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Don't get me wrong, Tom Brady is a great QB, Hall-of-fame worthy,but I don't think he's the best. like i said earlier, tom brady rode vinatieri's foot to where his legend is of epic proportions. yes, he was clutch in those game-winning drives, but it's adam V that brought the victories. throw in the fact that brady has generally had top-10 defenses his entire career and that the first SB win never should have happened, I don't think he's the best quarterback ever. Kickers dont win the football games! QB's who get them in range win football games! A kicker can lose a game fro you though. Until kickers can kick 80 yard FG's youll never convince me that i kicker wins games.
mchammer Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I dont buy any argument for a system QB. I dont think that they exist. Isnt the point of the QB to execute the system he is in? So if its a good system the QB cant get any credit? I would define a great QB as someone who carriers their team and without them the team will not succeed. A great system is one where you can plug a competent player in and the result will be the same. Hence Tommy boy is more a product of the system and not the great QB that everyone is led to believe. Where would the Colts be without Manning?
BuffaloBlood Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I would define a great QB as someone who carriers their team and without them the team will not succeed. A great system is one where you can plug a competent player in and the result will be the same. Hence Tommy boy is more a product of the system and not the great QB that everyone is led to believe. Where would the Colts be without Manning? How do we know the answer to that question though? We have never seen the Colts without Manning. So again I will ask... is it Brady's fault hes in a good system? And how do we know Paytons not in equally as great a system?
Tonawanda Troy Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Tom Brady=Over Rated! The guy is good, but you give any QB 5 seconds to find an open reciever and he will complete the pass 80% at least. Look what happened to him in the bowl last year when he was under pressure all day! The Pats O Line has been great, this is where games are won and lost in my opinion! In our glory years J Kelly had all day to throw with our tremendous O Line. Good Blocking = Wins!
stuckincincy Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Hey Im not saying its an open and shut case and I will even somewhat buy the argument about Adam V Im just not big on the "system Quarterback" crap that is flung around...... Brady earns his "bread and butter" passes because he's pretty good at avoiding the rush - keeping eyes straight ahead, and detecting a receiver cutting in the over in the middle. A concert between him and receivers. It's an effective system. He can throw long, he can hit the sidelines. Fans may despise him. I think he's one heck of a tactician. He absolutely dictates to the other 10 offensive players. Reminds me of several through the years - perhaps Stabler, as an example.
Ray Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 The "system" argument is the most ridiculous argument. Whatever you want to say NFL offenses are very similar. There are only so many ways to run a fly route, post, curl etc....Even with very average receivers Brady managed to do VERY well. I think you would have to agree winning 3 SBs is doing well. Why? Because he is smart, makes quick decisions, and is accurate. That is what makes a very good QB. A QB taking marginal/average players and making the team SB champs says a lot. Sorry, but he is the best QB going. He is marrying Gisele and he plays for the Pats and has 3 SB rings. Life ain't fair people. The Pats lucked out at the 6th round, and lucked out with Mo Lewis' hit on Bledsoe. Is it any coincidence that once Bledsoe was replaced the Pats started winning?
bizell Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Hey Im not saying its an open and shut case and I will even somewhat buy the argument about Adam V Im just not big on the "system Quarterback" crap that is flung around...... I'm with you on the system QB label. System or not, Brady has consistently put up good numbers his whole career. Paired with one of the best receivers in contemporary NFL history, he had a year for the ages. (points subtracted imo because the 07 pats were clearly trying to pump up brady's stats, whereas the colts in Manning's record setting year sat Manning out of the tail end of several blowouts). Is it the system that makes him good? I don't really care.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 when all is said and done, barring unforeseen circumstances, peyton manning is probably going to own just about every significant passing record. please tell me why tom brady is better. For the same reason Montanna is better than Marino...
marauderswr80 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 This board would be talking Super Bowl if Brady was ever sent to Buffalo......
WellDressed Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Especially considering how well Cassel played this year.... I don't know if Manning will have every record in the book, but he'll be close. He showed me this year what he means to the Colts when he's healthy. Favre will retain most INT's
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