Lost in the coaching debacle ... is Trent Edwards the real deal?

[Buffaloed in Pa]

How really dumb are you? are you the real deal? The Kid has played a little over ayear,and has better stats than Super bowl Qbs Troy Aikman ,YES Peyton Manning and other super star QBs in their early years. Its fans like YOU who whine about Trent that will never be satified . Give him more TIME. Give him a QUALITY TE. Give him a 2nd WR. Give him a real head coach. And no J.P. was never as good or going to be as good ,so don`t open that can of worms again.

[bbfan54]

Trent Edwards could be the next modern day Joe Montana in my opinion, the question is can we give him the supporting cast Montana had during his years with the 49ers.

 

Yeah if Trent Edwards had the greatest WR of all time and very good #2, the best OL in the league, and a great RB and FB like Montana did I'm sure he would be very good. Hopefully all that can fit under cash to cap.

[Steve In Atlanta 2008]

Edwards.........Best QB we've had since Jim Kelly.

 

Although Flutie might be in there as most effective - DF can also be credited with saving the franchise - at least for a while.

 

 

I think Edwards will be fine...

 

Go to NFL.com and compare his stats with Peyton, Eli, Philip Rivers, Ben Rothlisberger in their 1st 2 years...

 

Not too bad!

[bizell]

lol @ the people who start crying when trent edwards isn't verbally fellated after being asked an assessment of him

[Guest dog14787]

I was in full agreement until the last paragraph. Even at that, perhaps I don't fully understand it's point.

 

Imo, Dockery didn't play hard this year. He was standing around on far too many plays and quite frankly, didn't appear to be in game shape. Couple this with a piss poor center, and this is too big of a hole to hide in this league, and too much to ask of a quarterback.

As we both know, I did my share of blasting JP, but I was crying out to get him good blockers before I knew who Trent was. In fact, blocking has been a need for this team since you watched games with us in the nineties (and I wish you were still in these parts). Still, here we are 11 or so years later and the team still needs a center and another guard. There are scattered exceptions, but the best way to get these guys is to draft them. Dick Levy simply refused to do so, opting to focus on small and/or frail defensive backs.

 

The defense is such a disaster, it would take a thread of it's own, if not 100. In short, the system sucks. In a 3/4, you could draft a hybrid, a DeMarcus Ware type. There seems to be a lot of those guys but would they do us any good here? Our weird system seems like it needs a huge Richard Seymour to contain the outside, and these guys come along very rarely.

I freaking hate this system.

 

The Aaron Schobel injury exposed Buffalo's lack of depth at the DE position, with Schobels return and a good FA pickup/draft, the defense could be real good in my opinion.

 

When we lost Schobel and TE this year for extended periods of time, we lost our two most important players on the team, and the way Reed came on this year, you could almost count him as the 3rd most important player on the team to go down. We need a top notch, TE security blanket for TE, its a must.

 

Only a Couple of draft picks and FA signings away from having a good football team folks.

[spartacus]

The Aaron Schobel injury exposed Buffalo's lack of depth at the DE position, with Schobels return and a good FA pickup/draft, the defense could be real good in my opinion.

 

When we lost Schobel and TE this year for extended periods of time, we lost our two most important players on the team, and the way Reed came on this year, you could almost count him as the 3rd most important player on the team to go down. We need a top notch, TE security blanket for TE, its a must.

 

Only a Couple of draft picks and FA signings away from having a good football team folks.

 

get that big play TE and waste him in pass blocking when they don't get Peters in to camp and re-signed

[Guest dog14787]

get that big play TE and waste him in pass blocking when they don't get Peters in to camp and re-signed

 

 

Yup, you got that right, losing Peters would be like taking one step forward then two steps back, so I hope the front office realizes as much.

[Ozymandius]

Probably not the real deal. Too injury prone. Sure, we can improve the o-line but it's also impossible for a QB to go the entire season without getting hit. I would prefer a more durable guy so that his health status doesn't hang over the team like a dark cloud during the season.

[buffalogus]

Great points.

 

As for Evans, I think whether he's a No. 1 or great 2 is a tough thing to gauge right now. Throughout his career he's been saddled by mediocre to poor QB play, and that has certainly hindered his ability to put up big-time numbers, not to mention consistently being the only far above-average WR on the roster. Either way, he's a guy for the offense to build around.

 

Regarding Edwards, I think the biggest disappointment about this past season is that we basically learned nothing about him. We saw poise and precision at times, but he also looked awful on occasion. It's 20-some starts into the kid's career and we have little to show for whether he's going to be the Man here in Buffalo.

 

I like Trent a lot, and I believe he can be the guy, but is he? Sadly, we won't know that for another 12 months.

 

The question above everything else with Trent Edwards is his duarability---he hasn't played a full season at the college or professional level. Jauron keeps saying he is tough well how tough is he? #12 would have played some of the games Trent missed!!

[BuffaloBill]

But, I think the premise of the thread is flawed: That is, without a primo QB, a team can't succeed. That is simply untrue, and the list of mediocre-to-crappy QB's with SB rings makes the point. Teams with great coaches and terrific defenses CAN be successful without a superstar QB. Obviously, a quality QB makes it much easier to succeed.

 

You offer good insight, as usual. However, I was not trying to convey that we had to have a superstar at QB (although that would be nice.) Perhaps I failed to articulate that I believe Trent can be an average to above average QB in the NFL. If this is true then he must be supported by an above average to very good ground game (especially in the conditions at the Ralph). He also has to have a system that plays to his strengths.

 

The ground game came on late in the season. Sadly, Schonert seemed to overemphasize it at the wrong times (Cleveland game - final drive) or abandon it when it was in his favor (SF and NYJ game #2). Not to mention Trent is well suited to play action passes and this play call seemed to have been lost until about the 13th week of the season.

 

Most here seem to think that DJ is a crappy coach, and deserved to be fired after three consecutive 7-9 seasons. I happen to agree. The reason I agree is, I think this team has playoff-caliber talent. Not top tier talent, yet, but certainly more talent than many teams that are still playing. If I didn't think that was the case, then I wouldn't be so upset about Jauron's coaching.

 

But, according to some of these same posters, the talent on this team is sub-par. If that's the case, maybe Dick did a great job coaching this pile of dung to 7 wins.

 

I agree that Jauron needs to go. Earlier in the season I tried to defend him. I though last season he did a much better job handling all of the injuries. The team played much harder and were far more competitive. The problems this season were threefold. One, the rest of the AFC East took a huge step forward and the Bills at best stayed in place (reality of 0-6 says they took steps backwards). Two, Jauron does not appear to hold his staff or the players accountable for improvement. Tell me one player or one coach who was called out this year for subpar play or coaching. The company line was "poor talent." Given this I remain shocked at the thought that Jauron is a "players coach" because this comment is a slap in the player's collective faces. Three, Jauron's individual performance was terrible. Game mangement had to be in the bottom of the league. The final game showed how just how much of a coaching gap exists between Jauron and Bellicheat. Aside from the specific incidents already discussed on the board (i.e end of first half and 4th and long situation) Jauron appeared to do little to adjust the game plan given the conditions. It seemed as if they sat in an enclosed room all week reviewing film making plans then stepped on the filed in the given conditions and collectively said "what do we do?" I guess just send Freddy up the middle and around the ends once and a while, play for field goals and we'll see what happens." Bellicheat made in game adjustments. I hope Jauron can learn something from what he saw.

 

The offense, properly utilized, has enough talent (for the most part) for Trent to succeed. A better Center and TE will be an enormous help. More OL help (even if it is quality depth) and one more reliable WR wouldn't hurt, either...but they aren't necessities for this offense to make strides. Of course, if the coaches decide to s#it the bed, whenever there is a chance to succeed, will it really matter to the bottom line?

 

I am not so sure that I agree here. TE situation is really bad. O-line was pedestrian through a good part of the season (Butler's presence really did seem to matter almost more than Peters) and OK if you do not buy my argument that Evans is a #2 then who compliments him? I go back to Reed (and now maybe Steve Johnson) is an excellent slot / possession receiver but he can not draw enough attention away from Evans. As to all of you who say Evans would be so much better if he had a QB with a cannon even pass happy teams do not throw the ball 20+ yards every pass play. Not to mention Lee was tied for 15th in the league for 20+ yard catches - not bad considering he plays outdoors in tough conditions (he effectively lost a game this year because there is no way there was going to be a long pass in the NE game conditions). Lee is just not big egnough physically to demand attention every play the way a true #1 would be.

 

Thanks for your comments they are insightful as always

[marauderswr80]

who cares......this staff is pretty much ruining the talent we have....Lee Evans is going down the drain ala Eric Moulds, it took a blown play call to get Lynch to carry the ball more the 15 times a game. Our DL is worst in the league, minus Stroud & Williams, our DL would be on special teams elsewhere........

 

Bottom line the coaching staff dont know how to handle what we have to put them into a position to win......

[Guest dog14787]

Probably not the real deal. Too injury prone. Sure, we can improve the o-line but it's also impossible for a QB to go the entire season without getting hit. I would prefer a more durable guy so that his health status doesn't hang over the team like a dark cloud during the season.

 

This injury prone label is unfair considering the way TE gives up his body trying to help the team. Our Mike Martz/Steve Fairchild/Turk Shonert mess we call an offense is directly responsible for TE's injuries. You guys are probably sick of hearing the same thing from me, but its true. The 49ers, Rams, and Bills all suffered the same fate this year, the 49ers lead the league in having their QB sacked and is one of the reasons why Mike Martz is looking for a job right now.

 

Injuries can happen at anytime but by bringing in a variation of the WC offense, TE wouldn't have a problem staying healthy in my opinion.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I don't think the O-line is really quite that bad. Yes definitely need a center. However I think Walker and Dockery played decent. If you want to upgrade one of them, OK, but I don't think you can afford to do both and the odds of you actually getting a better player are low. I'd be fine with getting a FA center, drafting maybe 2nd round guard, bring him along slowly and maybe the following year, replace dockery if not big improvement. Id also be fine with bringing in an assistant line coach who has experience particually in the area of improving run blocking. That was the one area I was disapointed in.

 

I would also BE OK with trading Peters IF we can get two #1's for him. Less than that, keep him and sign him.

 

 

The o-line needs upgrades at center, RT and LG. Among this list an upgrade at center is key. The TE situation is a joke. Schouman and Fine are good reserve players. They are not NFL starters. I know this opinion will not be popular but sorry Lee Evans is not a #1 receiver. He is a superb #2 and Reed belongs in the slot. Please never put Roscoe Parrish back on the field as an NFL wide receiver again. Look at his stats and try to tell me otherwise (please no more .. he could be Wes Welker .. he is not and never will be). Back to Lee Evans. He is a very, very good receiver but he can not make a defense have to play to his abilities. Eric Moulds in his prime was a far better receiver. Lee has speed that can't be ignored but he does not have game presence. He would be a killer opposite a true #1. Good news is that the two heaed monster of Lynch and Jackson is as solid as they come.

 

My thoughts ... what are yours?

[The Dean]

.

 

I am not so sure that I agree here. TE situation is really bad. O-line was pedestrian through a good part of the season (Butler's presence really did seem to matter almost more than Peters) and OK if you do not buy my argument that Evans is a #2 then who compliments him? I go back to Reed (and now maybe Steve Johnson) is an excellent slot / possession receiver but he can not draw enough attention away from Evans. As to all of you who say Evans would be so much better if he had a QB with a cannon even pass happy teams do not throw the ball 20+ yards every pass play. Not to mention Lee was tied for 15th in the league for 20+ yard catches - not bad considering he plays outdoors in tough conditions (he effectively lost a game this year because there is no way there was going to be a long pass in the NE game conditions). Lee is just not big egnough physically to demand attention every play the way a true #1 would be.

 

Thanks for your comments they are insightful as always

 

 

I agree with most of your post, B-Bill. Well thought out and articulated. I believe that Evans is a fine #1, but I concede he is not big and physical.. Neither is Marvin Harrison and he was one of the best WR in the league for many years. Height is an advantage, but it is only one of the many elements you'd like to have in a WR...very few have EVERY element you want to have. I think Evans could be used better in the short-to-medium-game, too. But, that seems to escape the Bills coaches. So, Evans might not be the perfect #1...but, he isn't the problem, either.

 

I don't think the Bills have a traditional #2 WR and it would be great to see them get one. But, I don't think it is an absolute necessity, as they can use a different approach and have multiple very good options as the #'s 2-4 WRs. Add a real quality TE and that means you have a #1 and a bunch of possible #2s (if properly utilized). The way to draw attention away from Evans (without a true #2) is to have a bunch of excellent alternative receiving options. Perhaps if they actually attempted to throw long to Parrish, use more slant/crossing patterns, and continue to grow the role of the RB in the passing game, Evans will be more open. (Turk has done a good job of getting the RB involved in the passing game. That needs to continue to evolve.) Right now, Evans is running patterns that Trent simply won't pull the trigger on, on most plays. Perhaps it is because he is still young, but Trent seems to want to throw only to guys who look wide open. In a properly run offense, the WR is open on most plays, if the pattern is correctly run and the pass is thrown well. Have some faith in the WR.

 

I guess my point continues to be, the coaches are not playing to the strengths of the team. The offensive line is huge, but seems to play passively. That can happen if the design doesn't require them to (and ALLOW them to) play a smash mouth style, and use their size to an advantage. I believe that, with a better Center, and a mandate to DOMINATE via sheer power, you would see a vast improvement in the play of a guy like Dockery. Even with the team's more passive approach, the running game has looked pretty good in the 4th quarter...of course, the coaches then decide to not use that hard won advantage. Dominate or sit down, would be the marching orders for the line. But, you can't ask a guy to dominate and use his size, and then run most of your plays that ask him to be passive and waltz around.

 

Finally, for now, I think this team should be using multiple formations, and mixing the pace...while still running, essentially, a smash mouth offense. As it is, I think the defense knows what the Bills are going to do on a large percentage of the plays. I'd spread the offense out, and go no-huddle at times (not necessarily run fast, though) but continue to run from that formation...while looking for the opportunity to strike for a big play. At times, I would increase the pace of the offense from time to time, depending on the situation. The Bills run at a very predictable pace and show no real sense of urgency.

[Paup 1995MVP]

Even if I agreed with a Peters trade (which I totally do not), you are 100% correct, even if your post was tongue in cheek. Does anybody seriously believe that if Dick Levy got another first round early pick (Peters is easily worth this) he would grab one of the top LTs in this draft? How could any sane person think this? And even if he did, he would use the other pick on a defensive back.

 

I have a lot of fun between now and the draft. The information and speculation is great, but reality tells us to say hello to a #11 safety. We will have 2 #11s and a #8 in the secondary. After 09, we will probably have a top 5 corner.

The big problem with our team each offseason is that we do not bring in enough impact free agents. This past season we brought in Marcus Stroud (trade), Kawika Mitchell and Spencer Johnson. And noone on offense. For a team coming off two 7-9 seasons, this was not nearly enough. Johnson did nothing. Mitchell is way too slow dropping back and moving laterally. His only asset is rushing the passer. And Stroud while not horrible was far from dominant game in, game out in the middle. He got no push in pass rush, and had his moments against the run. My point is that these guys did not make a major impact.

 

Right now to be a very competitive team next season, (despite our lack of coaching) we need a Center and at least one more guard, a Tight End, another WR, two more d-lineman, at least one and maybe two LB's and a safety, and of course another QB. That makes 9-10 players. If we could sign at least FIVE GOOD, don't have to be great players in free agency, it would open up so many more options in the draft. Lets hope this team wakes up and tries to be a big time player in free agency.

[Guest dog14787]

I agree with most of your post, B-Bill. Well thought out and articulated. I believe that Evans is a fine #1, but I concede he is not big and physical.. Neither is Marvin Harrison and he was one of the best WR in the league for many years. Height is an advantage, but it is only one of the many elements you'd like to have in a WR...very few have EVERY element you want to have. I think Evans could be used better in the short-to-medium-game, too. But, that seems to escape the Bills coaches. So, Evans might not be the perfect #1...but, he isn't the problem, either.

 

I don't think the Bills have a traditional #2 WR and it would be great to see them get one. But, I don't think it is an absolute necessity, as they can use a different approach and have multiple very good options as the #'s 2-4 WRs. Add a real quality TE and that means you have a #1 and a bunch of possible #2s (if properly utilized). The way to draw attention away from Evans (without a true #2) is to have a bunch of excellent alternative receiving options. Perhaps if they actually attempted to throw long to Parrish, use more slant/crossing patterns, and continue to grow the role of the RB in the passing game, Evans will be more open. (Turk has done a good job of getting the RB involved in the passing game. That needs to continue to evolve.) Right now, Evans is running patterns that Trent simply won't pull the trigger on, on most plays. Perhaps it is because he is still young, but Trent seems to want to throw only to guys who look wide open. In a properly run offense, the WR is open on most plays, if the pattern is correctly run and the pass is thrown well. Have some faith in the WR.

 

I guess my point continues to be, the coaches are not playing to the strengths of the team. The offensive line is huge, but seems to play passively. That can happen if the design doesn't require them to (and ALLOW them to) play a smash mouth style, and use their size to an advantage. I believe that, with a better Center, and a mandate to DOMINATE via sheer power, you would see a vast improvement in the play of a guy like Dockery. Even with the team's more passive approach, the running game has looked pretty good in the 4th quarter...of course, the coaches then decide to not use that hard won advantage. Dominate or sit down, would be the marching orders for the line. But, you can't ask a guy to dominate and use his size, and then run most of your plays that ask him to be passive and waltz around.

 

Finally, for now, I think this team should be using multiple formations, and mixing the pace...while still running, essentially, a smash mouth offense. As it is, I think the defense knows what the Bills are going to do on a large percentage of the plays. I'd spread the offense out, and go no-huddle at times (not necessarily run fast, though) but continue to run from that formation...while looking for the opportunity to strike for a big play. At times, I would increase the pace of the offense from time to time, depending on the situation. The Bills run at a very predictable pace and show no real sense of urgency.

 

ummm, Dean, maybe you should forward this post to Jauron/ Shonert.

 

 

Great insight and I've been looking for the no huddle all season.

[bizell]

This injury prone label is unfair considering the way TE gives up his body trying to help the team. Our Mike Martz/Steve Fairchild/Turk Shonert mess we call an offense is directly responsible for TE's injuries. You guys are probably sick of hearing the same thing from me, but its true. The 49ers, Rams, and Bills all suffered the same fate this year, the 49ers lead the league in having their QB sacked and is one of the reasons why Mike Martz is looking for a job right now.

 

Injuries can happen at anytime but by bringing in a variation of the WC offense, TE wouldn't have a problem staying healthy in my opinion.

disagree. the man has missed portions of the the season every year, save 1 for the past 4 or 5 years. his pattern of getting hurt didn't start in buffalo, it just followed him from stanford.

[The Dean]

disagree. the man has missed portions of the the season every year, save 1 for the past 4 or 5 years. his pattern of getting hurt didn't start in buffalo, it just followed him from stanford.

 

 

To be fair, he was brutalized at Stanford. His line was beyond horrible, there.

 

But, he hasn't proven to be a QB that is capable of staying on the field, yet. I'm a little concerned, but not as worried as some, I guess.

[Búfalo Blanco]

Injuries can happen at anytime but by bringing in a variation of the WC offense, TE wouldn't have a problem staying healthy in my opinion.

 

I've been saying this for a while... A WC offensive scheme would suit Edwards best. Using a conservative, run-oriented version of it along with a more aggressive style defense similar to Lebeau's blitz schemes could do wonders for this team, although at this point, I don't believe this team is completely built for those schemes...

 

A guy like Shanahan would have been the perfect WC guy for Trent Edwards... but we would have had to go through another rebuilding transition to mold the zone-blocking OL Shanahan likes among other personnel changes... and it may have taken time. But the team would have moved forward instead of staying in neutral... which is where we'll be for a while. And of course, Wilson would have had to shell out extra cash... God forbid... Its tragic because I believe Edwards would be on the cusp of greatness in the right WC offense...

 

Too bad Ralph didn't take a chance like this, because he's gonna lose even more of that precious money he likes to conserve losing season ticket holders... and then the sphincter will pucker up so tight, he really will turn Buffalo into his home town...

 

GO LIONS!!!

[Flbillsfan#1]

This injury prone label is unfair considering the way TE gives up his body trying to help the team. Our Mike Martz/Steve Fairchild/Turk Shonert mess we call an offense is directly responsible for TE's injuries. You guys are probably sick of hearing the same thing from me, but its true. The 49ers, Rams, and Bills all suffered the same fate this year, the 49ers lead the league in having their QB sacked and is one of the reasons why Mike Martz is looking for a job right now.

 

Injuries can happen at anytime but by bringing in a variation of the WC offense, TE wouldn't have a problem staying healthy in my opinion.

Does ANYONE think Trent will play all 16 games in 09 ( there will be NO PLAYOFFS for the Bills)? I sure don't & to me that equates to INJURY PRONE.