billybob Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Aaron Curry OLB, Rey Manualuga ILB, and Michael Johnson DE were all picked twice- Greg Hardy DE, Brian Orakpo DE, Everett Brown OLB/DE and Jermaine Gresham TE all got one vote if you consider Everett Brown both a OLB and a DE then the LB and DE picks were split 5 and 5 Jermaine Gresham going 11th to the Bills is the highest anyone has him going, most drafts have him going 22-28 and he's not in the first round twice. Alex Mack is only in the first round twice both times going 30th to Pittsburgh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Gresham will go higher then where he's listed in mock drafts. If we didn't so desperately need a defensive end, I'd have no problem with Gresham. For someone his size to have the speed and hands he does is quite amazing to watch. If Buffalo ever wants to catch up to good nfl offenses, by adding a dynamic tight end he's the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Khalif Barnes is one of the worst LOT's in the NFL. Replacing a traded Peters with him is like keeping Dick Jauron as HC: asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 Khalif Barnes is one of the worst LOT's in the NFL. Replacing a traded Peters with him is like keeping Dick Jauron as HC: asinine. you crack me up- of course Barnes isn't that good if he was the Bills wouldn't have a shot at him- But he is young, has a lot of experience at LT, Had a very good rookie year, meets the Physical standards, and has been on the strait and narrow for the last year and a half- I love this board if you mention anyone good they say you're stupid the Bills would never get him, If you look for guys who haven't been that great but might have upside, they say you're stupid he sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 No offense Billy Boy, but your whole offseason scenario seems a little far fetched. I'm still not buying this whole 3 1st round draft picks thing. Me neither - and it's overkill. They stay right where they are at #11 and get Everette Brown DE (no he's not a LB - even in the NFL) Then they trade whatever it takes to get into the late 1st round and grab C Alex Mack. I'd say their #2 and #3 and/or Roscoe Parrish. I love little Roscoe, but he's just not a good WR and with McGee and McKelvin, Parrish is a luxury they don't need. Round #2 pick 11 and a third is fair value for say #28 overall I believe - though we can look that up on the chart. Re-sign Crowell and with a healthy DiGi backing up what exactly is wrong with their LB's??? Get a TE in FA to replace Royal and mix in Fine. Get a journeyman veteran QB - Harrington or Batch...? Then we watch them improve monumentally and immediately. Big question is Schobel's health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 No offense Billy Boy, but your whole offseason scenario seems a little far fetched. I'm still not buying this whole 3 1st round draft picks thing. A Jason Peters trade only makes sense if two things occur - you can man the LT position with someone who can at least hold their own- you'd have to think that Bell has the stuff or that you can get a reasonable player in FA - the second thing is you have to be able to get around equivalent value for him, which I rate as 2200 points on the NFL draft trade value chart- People on this board talks as if 1st round picks are equivalent- they are not - the first overall pick is worth more than the bottom 4 1st round picks put together - The teams that would make the most sense are Philly who holds their own pick and the Panthers 1st round pick, Philly's two starting OTs are both going into FA and are both in serious decline- the backup is Winston Justice who has been a disappointment to say the least- the other team is Detroit who desperately needs LT but who would like to use the first overall pick on a QB- they have Dallas's 1st and 3rd, I would want their Dallas 1st and 3rd and their own 2nd for Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 They stay right where they are at #11 and get Everette Brown DE (no he's not a LB - even in the NFL) Then they trade whatever it takes to get into the late 1st round and grab C Alex Mack. I'd say their #2 and #3 and/or Roscoe Parrish. I love little Roscoe, but he's just not a good WR and with McGee and McKelvin, Parrish is a luxury they don't need. Round #2 pick 11 and a third is fair value for say #28 overall I believe - though we can look that up on the chart. Draft values for pick 11: round 1: 11 1250 round 2: 43 470 round 3: 75 215 For pick 28 let's say to get Mack... round 1: 28 660 470+215 = 685 > 660 so the idea of our 2nd and 3rd for someone's 1st at #28 is perfectly reasonable. Mack should still be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ91 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Aaron Curry OLB, Rey Manualuga ILB, and Michael Johnson DE were all picked twice- Greg Hardy DE, Brian Orakpo DE, Everett Brown OLB/DE and Jermaine Gresham TE all got one vote if you consider Everett Brown both a OLB and a DE then the LB and DE picks were split 5 and 5 Jermaine Gresham going 11th to the Bills is the highest anyone has him going, most drafts have him going 22-28 and he's not in the first round twice. Alex Mack is only in the first round twice both times going 30th to Pittsburgh I've been screaming for the best center in the draft as the Bills top priority if they don't sign a good vet. center in FA. It sucks that Mack and the rest of the good ones are not rated around 12 - 18 so everyone would agree with me. But here's the thing to think about: If the Bills stick to everyone's board value and draft the higher rated DE or TE or SS and Mack ends up with Pittsburgh at the number 30 pick, why do I just know that Mack will start immediately next year and be the Steelers' starting perennial Pro Bowl center for the next 12 years, and the DE or TE or SS the Bills draft will not end up as good at his position?? Why do I just know this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pozitive51 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Is anybody really buying the Crowell & Brandon lovefest? I don't see them resigning him and believe a LB will be one of their FA pickups... I am hoping for Wilma. TE will be the other big pickup in free agency and would like to see them go after Winslow. Depth at DT and a backup QB. In the draft they take the best DE available and trade up to get Mack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Draft values for pick 11: round 1: 11 1250 round 2: 43 470 round 3: 75 215 For pick 28 let's say to get Mack... round 1: 28 660 470+215 = 685 > 660 so the idea of our 2nd and 3rd for someone's 1st at #28 is perfectly reasonable. Mack should still be there. Bob, that is totally not the way to do things imo, and it is even part of the reason why we are in this mess. The Bills need more picks, not less. If they are in love with Mack (they will not be, Dick Levy will take a corner or safety at #11), the thing to do would be to trade back 7 or so spots, draft Mack, and pick up another 2nd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ91 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Bob, that is totally not the way to do things imo, and it is even part of the reason why we are in this mess. The Bills need more picks, not less. If they are in love with Mack (they will not be, Dick Levy will take a corner or safety at #11), the thing to do would be to trade back 7 or so spots, draft Mack, and pick up another 2nd round pick. Exactly. And even though I agree that Dick-Russ-Tom-John-Ralph Levy will keep the pick and take some player none of us expect, it would be terrific if they were that much "in love" with Mack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Bob, that is totally not the way to do things imo, and it is even part of the reason why we are in this mess. The Bills need more picks, not less. If they are in love with Mack (they will not be, Dick Levy will take a corner or safety at #11), the thing to do would be to trade back 7 or so spots, draft Mack, and pick up another 2nd round pick. Indeed. This team has enough needs that trading down a little to pick up more picks won't hurt them. If they trade to 17-19 and don't get Mack, there are enough other needs that they can still pick up a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Gresham will go higher then where he's listed in mock drafts. If we didn't so desperately need a defensive end, I'd have no problem with Gresham. For someone his size to have the speed and hands he does is quite amazing to watch. If Buffalo ever wants to catch up to good nfl offenses, by adding a dynamic tight end he's the way to go. Agreed. I think Gresham will end up going in the top 15, should he declare himself eligible for the draft. If he does, I would very likely pick him, especially if they sign a decent C in FA. It would solve an enormous problem that has existed for years in this offense: their inability to threaten the middle of the field. DE? Although I'm not sure that there's a truly great one available, there are probably 5 or 6 good pass rushers that will likely be available at the top of this draft. They can always trade up from the R2 spot if necessary. In any event, I'm not sure there's a nickel's worth of difference in this first group of DEs. Its a different story at TE this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 Is anybody really buying the Crowell & Brandon lovefest? I don't see them resigning him and believe a LB will be one of their FA pickups... I am hoping for Wilma. TE will be the other big pickup in free agency and would like to see them go after Winslow. Depth at DT and a backup QB. In the draft they take the best DE available and trade up to get Mack. Not a lovefest but maybe a marriage of convenience - Crowell signs a one year contract at a reasonable price- so he can show that he's recovered from surgery- the Bills get an upgrade at LB at minimum expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 I've been screaming for the best center in the draft as the Bills top priority if they don't sign a good vet. center in FA. It sucks that Mack and the rest of the good ones are not rated around 12 - 18 so everyone would agree with me. But here's the thing to think about: If the Bills stick to everyone's board value and draft the higher rated DE or TE or SS and Mack ends up with Pittsburgh at the number 30 pick, why do I just know that Mack will start immediately next year and be the Steelers' starting perennial Pro Bowl center for the next 12 years, and the DE or TE or SS the Bills draft will not end up as good at his position?? Why do I just know this?? I agree center is a strong need and Mack looks like a very good center- but the Bills could get Jason Brown in FA- or the Bills could trade down and get Mack- or they could trade picks to get back to the bottom of the first and get Mack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Me neither - and it's overkill. They stay right where they are at #11 and get Everette Brown DE (no he's not a LB - even in the NFL) Then they trade whatever it takes to get into the late 1st round and grab C Alex Mack. I'd say their #2 and #3 and/or Roscoe Parrish. I love little Roscoe, but he's just not a good WR and with McGee and McKelvin, Parrish is a luxury they don't need. Round #2 pick 11 and a third is fair value for say #28 overall I believe - though we can look that up on the chart. Re-sign Crowell and with a healthy DiGi backing up what exactly is wrong with their LB's??? Get a TE in FA to replace Royal and mix in Fine. Get a journeyman veteran QB - Harrington or Batch...? Then we watch them improve monumentally and immediately. Big question is Schobel's health. I'd be pretty happy if this is what the Bills did. Best part is that it's quite possible and doesn't cost a lot of cash (Crowell and a FA TE (Owen Daniel or LJ Smith come to mind) should come relatively cheap), which is key to Ralph. Would immediately improve our Front 7 on D and our O-line and passing game. Combine that with more experience this year for TE, Marshawn, Simpson, Williams, Leodis, Pos and the much maligned Whitner, among others, and the team might go 8-8 or better with a little luck. Not bad considering our murderer's row schedule next season. I'd love to go 12-4 or something, but let's be realistic here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Bob, that is totally not the way to do things imo, and it is even part of the reason why we are in this mess. The Bills need more picks, not less. If they are in love with Mack (they will not be, Dick Levy will take a corner or safety at #11), the thing to do would be to trade back 7 or so spots, draft Mack, and pick up another 2nd round pick. You're forgetting that this also allows us to get one of the draft's best DE's as well, which is this team's top priority. Your plan would relegate that to FA (good luck with El Cheapo spending money on one of the most cash rich positions in football) or a 2nd round pick or later. No thanks--I'll take my chances with drafting a premier DE at 11 and giving up Roscoe or a 3 to move up to get Mack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Whos the best CB in Div II football? Cause thats who we will most likely draft with the first rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Indeed. This team has enough needs that trading down a little to pick up more picks won't hurt them. If they trade to 17-19 and don't get Mack, there are enough other needs that they can still pick up a player. This comes up every year with over half the board in a frenzy about how stupid we are for not trading down, the assumption being always that a trade down is there for the asking. It rarely is. The other half will be stumped as to why on earth we weren't able to trade a bag of beans for 8 first round picks. All the wheeling and dealing in the world won't help a team if their coaches and scouts can't accurately evaluate talent. If I am not mistaken, the once constant linking this era with the Donohoe era is Tom Modrak. All the criticism about our drafts and yet you hardly hear anything but gushing praise for Modrak. Is that really justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sac bills Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Peters' trade value is a 1st and a 3rd. It's pretty clear he's played his last down for the Bills and other teams know that. Watch that Oklahoma TE. He is amazing. and he can block. The silver lining of the Jauron extension might be that ownership (I refuse to name him) knows the fans are pissed and they're going to have to do something with this team to get 60,000 at home games next year. perhaps that means they'll be active in free agency and/or on draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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