_BiB_ Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Stuff that goes boom It occurred to me that many people might not even know what is being talked about. In essence, they're ingredients, requiring further manufacturing to be effective. I'm somewhat interested to see where this Russian story goes, as the claim is they made the stuff and wanted it gone before their complicity in Sadaams operations could be discovered. I'm not sure, but I don't think that the Iraqis had a manufacturing base to produce the raw ingredients on their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Stuff that goes boom It occurred to me that many people might not even know what is being talked about. In essence, they're ingredients, requiring further manufacturing to be effective. I'm somewhat interested to see where this Russian story goes, as the claim is they made the stuff and wanted it gone before their complicity in Sadaams operations could be discovered. I'm not sure, but I don't think that the Iraqis had a manufacturing base to produce the raw ingredients on their own 91112[/snapback] Looks to me like it was ready-to-go - for implementation into various munitions. But I share your doubt about any Iraqi domestic production - the compounding of any explosive is a specialty manufacturing situation requiring a lot of control and capital investment. It make much more sense to order it. Which per UN sanctions, they could not do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Looks to me like it was ready-to-go - for implementation into various munitions. But I share your doubt about any Iraqi domestic production - the compounding of any explosive is a specialty manufacturing situation requiring a lot of control and capital investment. It make much more sense to order it. Which per UN sanctions, they could not do. 91149[/snapback] Oil for food money goes a long way, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Wonder why we don't here about the 400,000 TONS of munitions that have already been destroyed. Ah, right, thats not bad news, what the hell was I thinking....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerjamhead Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Wonder why we don't here about the 400,000 TONS of munitions that have already been destroyed. Ah, right, thats not bad news, what the hell was I thinking....... 91168[/snapback] SELECTED NOT ELECTED!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Wonder why we don't here about the 400,000 TONS of munitions that have already been destroyed. Ah, right, thats not bad news, what the hell was I thinking....... 91168[/snapback] Uh, probably because it can't be used TO KILL OUR TROOPS. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Uh, probably because it can't be used TO KILL OUR TROOPS. Duh. 91226[/snapback] So then its good news Putz, and its not reported. Keep up will Ya Sorry, I forgot, you dont like any kind of good news. Go back to wallowing in your misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Uh, probably because it can't be used TO KILL OUR TROOPS. Duh. 91226[/snapback] Blow stuff up lesson number 22A. The vast majority of IEDs used to blow up troops are fashioned from conventional artillery rounds. Much, much easier to handle and detonate than exotic blasting ingredients. Next in line is plastique compounds and regular old TNT. Literally thousands of tons of it, not just from Iraq but from all over the world. You have a plan for rounding up every bow and arrow on earth? Let me know what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichFan Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 You have a plan for rounding up every bow and arrow on earth? Let me know what it is. You're given her too much credit, BiB. She's just going to help elect John Kerry because obviously he has the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Blow stuff up lesson number 22A. The vast majority of IEDs used to blow up troops are fashioned from conventional artillery rounds. Much, much easier to handle and detonate than exotic blasting ingredients. Next in line is plastique compounds and regular old TNT. Literally thousands of tons of it, not just from Iraq but from all over the world. You have a plan for rounding up every bow and arrow on earth? Let me know what it is. 91245[/snapback] So, are you saying that the stuff that was "stolen" is not typically used in IED's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 So, are you saying that the stuff that was "stolen" is not typically used in IED's? 91334[/snapback] Your typical IED is a 155 howitzer HE round. In several that were found made of compound, the compound was recovered from HE artillery rounds. I'm just a make it all up wanna be look at me poster, true, but I don't believe that there have been any IEDs located containing pure RDX or HMX. I guess I could ask someone that works in the IED Defeat section, but they have no credibility as they are not a major news organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Your typical IED is a 155 howitzer HE round. In several that were found made of compound, the compound was recovered from HE artillery rounds. I'm just a make it all up wanna be look at me poster, true, but I don't believe that there have been any IEDs located containing pure RDX or HMX. I guess I could ask someone that works in the IED Defeat section, but they have no credibility as they are not a major news organization. 91355[/snapback] So, what ways (that are currently employed in Iraq) are these two "stolen" items being used to kill our troops? Of course, you will need to provide a link to prove that you know what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 So, what ways (that are currently employed in Iraq) are these two "stolen" items being used to kill our troops? Of course, you will need to provide a link to prove that you know what you are talking about. 91364[/snapback] I suppose anyone forced to eat a few pounds of it might get pretty sick. Anyone catch that we're talking about white powder? It's an accelerator used to make usable explosives. Taking the C-4 out of the artillery shells, or using the artillery shells themselves is a much more efficient means of killing people then trying to get a barrel of white powder to detonate, rather than burn. If you want to blame Bush, you should blame him and his stupid, worthless military for not securing the millions of artillery rounds located at 20,000 sites within fifteen minutes of crossing the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I suppose anyone forced to eat a few pounds of it might get pretty sick. Anyone catch that we're talking about white powder? It's an accelerator used to make usable explosives. Taking the C-4 out of the artillery shells, or using the artillery shells themselves is a much more efficient means of killing people then trying to get a barrel of white powder to detonate, rather than burn. If you want to blame Bush, you should blame him and his stupid, worthless military for not securing the millions of artillery rounds located at 20,000 sites within fifteen minutes of crossing the border. 91375[/snapback] So, all the crap that Debbie et. al have been spewing has been a bunch of junk. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 So, all the crap that Debbie et. al have been spewing has been a bunch of junk. Correct? 91384[/snapback] In my worthless opinion. Yes. People should google more and opine less. What sense does it make to "create" explosives requiring strict manufacturing controls and facilities when you have thousands of pounds of the stuff just lying around ready to blow with a simple blasting cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 In my worthless opinion. Yes. People should google more and opine less. What sense does it make to "create" explosives requiring strict manufacturing controls and facilities when you have thousands of pounds of the stuff just lying around ready to blow with a simple blasting cap? 91391[/snapback] Too bad the Hot Pockets crowd is going to run away from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Your typical IED is a 155 howitzer HE round. In several that were found made of compound, the compound was recovered from HE artillery rounds. I'm just a make it all up wanna be look at me poster, true, but I don't believe that there have been any IEDs located containing pure RDX or HMX. I guess I could ask someone that works in the IED Defeat section, but they have no credibility as they are not a major news organization. 91355[/snapback] From what I read about that site there were all kinds of weapons and munitions at the place in question, not just the tons of HMX and other explosives. The issue is ONLY that the war and peace wasn't planned right, and that there werent enough people and troops and security personel there at the beginning, middle and end to take care of all this stuff, even though the administration was warned about this and other places. That is ALL Kerry has accused the administration of, and whether it's true or not is debatable. It seems to me, granted, not an authority, that this is exactly why a lot of people didnt like the way this war was propagated. It wasn't planned well or prepared for well and these are the kinds of things that are emblematic of it. This could have been THE RIGHT WAR AT THE RIGHT TIME IN THE RIGHT PLACE and if the Bush Administration made numerous decisions that cost many more hundreds or thousands of lives and limbs, and many more tens and billions of dollars wasted on a failure, and many more thousands or millions of new terrorists because of said decisions, Bush needs to be held accountable. Just as he would (or perhaps will) be given the credit if it turns out well or great. Right now, it looks like a mess, and these things are legitimate points to make because they are emblematic of the overall criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Realistically, how many people do you think it would take to secure 15-20,000 ammunition dumps. Not counting the stuff squirrelled away before the invasion? There is no such animal as a perfect war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I don't think many wars have been planned and fought better than this one. Mistakes we made in World War II were about 100x worse. I can only imagine the 2004 media freaking out about the Battle of the Bulge. Soldiers fighting in the snow without overcoats!!! Not enough ammunition!! Why did we invade Europe without supplies?! Again, this story is about less than a tenth of one percent of Iraqi munitions that have been accounted for. And it may not have ever been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 From what I read about that site there were all kinds of weapons and munitions at the place in question, not just the tons of HMX and other explosives. The issue is ONLY that the war and peace wasn't planned right, and that there werent enough people and troops and security personel there at the beginning, middle and end to take care of all this stuff, even though the administration was warned about this and other places. That is ALL Kerry has accused the administration of, and whether it's true or not is debatable. It seems to me, granted, not an authority, that this is exactly why a lot of people didnt like the way this war was propagated. It wasn't planned well or prepared for well and these are the kinds of things that are emblematic of it. This could have been THE RIGHT WAR AT THE RIGHT TIME IN THE RIGHT PLACE and if the Bush Administration made numerous decisions that cost many more hundreds or thousands of lives and limbs, and many more tens and billions of dollars wasted on a failure, and many more thousands or millions of new terrorists because of said decisions, Bush needs to be held accountable. Just as he would (or perhaps will) be given the credit if it turns out well or great. Right now, it looks like a mess, and these things are legitimate points to make because they are emblematic of the overall criticism. 91396[/snapback] It all goes back to essentially the same thing: The military has far too many bureaucrats and not enough operators. It's something Donald Rumsfelt has been fighting the Pentagon on since his appointment. It looks like a mess because of the way it is reported. I'm not suggesting that there aren't serious issues, because there obviously are. Rather, I'm suggesting that the other side of the story isn't being told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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