Big Turk Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I keep hearing how this team doesn't have enough "talent". I think that is a bunch of BS personally. The problem is not talent. To me, talent means the highest level of play a player is capable of. Clearly there are players capable of playing at a high level on this team. Each player has a certain potential they are capable of. Great coaches are able to get more players to play more often at or near their potential than poor coaches are. Great coaches take players who "don't have enough talent" and turn them into solid players that win games. Poor coaches have players who rarely play at their potential, so they look like they don't have the talent, because both the untalented player and the talented but under-potentialed player produce the same results. The difference is what they show during many games. The non-talented player is rarely going to make a big play and often looks overmatched out there against other players in the NFL. The under-potentialed player makes plays and you can see they have the talent, but for whatever reason, they only show it in very small doses or a few games a year. Kinda like Kawika Mitchell. He had some games where he just flat out dominated(San Diego), but far too often he was silent. Its obvious he has the talent to play like he did against San Diego more often. He obviously isn't playing to his potential. I will bet a dollar to a donut that several Bills players on both sides of the ball would have career years with good coaching. I can almost guarantee it. Not getting your players to perform up to their potential and having players who play to their potential but just aren't very good are 2 different things. You can't make a player who just doesn't have the ability to be very good into a good player. You can however, turn an underachieving player into a good player. The Bills have a lot of underachieving players and some that probably aren't good enough, I am not going to kid myself into thinking the Bills have a roster anywhere near as talented as some of the other teams in the NFL. However, I do think the Bills have several good young players that should be performing better than they are. Evans, Lynch, Whitner, Poz, etc...throw Edwards in there as well since he basically regressed all year long. Those players unquestionably have enough talent to be very good players at their positions, but they are not playing to their potentials. It is amazing how good coaches can come in and take a roster that is almost the same and get a completely different result than a poor coach. The players are the same, what changed? What changed is how often they are able to get those players to play up to their potential... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 There is a distinct lack of talent within the Buffalo Bills. At owner, general manager, and head coach. It also extends to offensive and defensive coordinator. Chuck Lester isn't talented enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 As Chris Carter said earlier in the year when he didn't buy into the Bills and was burried by fan boards. 1-53 the Bills are nowhere near as talented as the Patriots. What you see with certain players is what you get. I.e Chris Kelsay/Kyle Williams/Ryan Denney/Kawika Mitchell/Ellison. The corners have maxed out their potential. The secondary is a good group hamstrung by a piss poor front 7. On the offensive side. Roscoe Parrish is what he is. A #4 wr/great punt returner. Robert Royal had his career year with us. The wr core is underwhelming. There is a lack of talent issue on both sides. However there's also a serious coaching issue. A 1st year offensive coordinator is not the way to build a young offense. A 1st time defensive coordinator, with horrible front 7 talent does not a good defense make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 As Chris Carter said earlier in the year when he didn't buy into the Bills and was burried by fan boards. 1-53 the Bills are nowhere near as talented as the Patriots. What you see with certain players is what you get. I.e Chris Kelsay/Kyle Williams/Ryan Denney/Kawika Mitchell/Ellison. The corners have maxed out their potential. The secondary is a good group hamstrung by a piss poor front 7. On the offensive side. Roscoe Parrish is what he is. A #4 wr/great punt returner. Robert Royal had his career year with us. The wr core is underwhelming. There is a lack of talent issue on both sides. However there's also a serious coaching issue. A 1st year offensive coordinator is not the way to build a young offense. A 1st time defensive coordinator, with horrible front 7 talent does not a good defense make. Mitchell looked pretty good when he played us last year and returned an errant Edwards pass for a TD... Let me ask you this question. If Bellichick and his staff came to the Bills and Jauron and his staff went to the Patriots, do you think the teams would still have the same records as they do now? If you say no, then you just basically agreed to what I said earlier---good coaches can get more players to play up to their potential more than poor coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Mitchell looked pretty good when he played us last year and returned an errant Edwards pass for a TD... Let me ask you this question. If Bellichick and his staff came to the Bills and Jauron and his staff went to the Patriots, do you think the teams would still have the same records as they do now? If you say no, then you just basically agreed to what I said earlier---good coaches can get more players to play up to their potential more than poor coaches. Exactly... Belichick would own Dead Dick with almost any NFL Roster...It's a mismatch plain and simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Mitchell looked pretty good when he played us last year and returned an errant Edwards pass for a TD... Let me ask you this question. If Bellichick and his staff came to the Bills and Jauron and his staff went to the Patriots, do you think the teams would still have the same records as they do now? If you say no, then you just basically agreed to what I said earlier---good coaches can get more players to play up to their potential more than poor coaches. Mitchell had a good year this year as well. He was just as inconsistent with the Bills as he was with the giants. The Giants were able to cover for this with their superior defensive line. Unless you think Spags could get out Kelsay/Denney what they got out of strahan/osi/tuck. Make no mistake about it though, switch staffs with the patriots and the Bills would have a better record. I'm not so sure the Patriots still wouldn't win 10-11 games to be honest. However I am 100% convinced with the defensive talent level as is, we will never win a playoff game with the substandard talent. You can point out coaching vs talent. I think it's a mixture of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFITZ1 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Mitchell looked pretty good when he played us last year and returned an errant Edwards pass for a TD... Let me ask you this question. If Bellichick and his staff came to the Bills and Jauron and his staff went to the Patriots, do you think the teams would still have the same records as they do now? If you say no, then you just basically agreed to what I said earlier---good coaches can get more players to play up to their potential more than poor coaches. I think the BIlls would win 3 more games, and the Pats would've had 2 more losses, both to the Bills because Belechek outcoaches Jauron every time. Jauron plays timid and conservative against teh Pats and gets run over by them. Teams that beat teh Pats attacked them, and through curves at them. The Wildcat used by teh Fish is an excellent example, and something Jauron would never have thought of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 As Chris Carter said earlier in the year when he didn't buy into the Bills and was burried by fan boards. 1-53 the Bills are nowhere near as talented as the Patriots. What you see with certain players is what you get. I.e Chris Kelsay/Kyle Williams/Ryan Denney/Kawika Mitchell/Ellison. The corners have maxed out their potential. The secondary is a good group hamstrung by a piss poor front 7. On the offensive side. Roscoe Parrish is what he is. A #4 wr/great punt returner. Robert Royal had his career year with us. The wr core is underwhelming. There is a lack of talent issue on both sides. However there's also a serious coaching issue. A 1st year offensive coordinator is not the way to build a young offense. A 1st time defensive coordinator, with horrible front 7 talent does not a good defense make. Yeah, I agree. We simply don't have the personnel yet, though a lot of the guys are very young and will continue improving by leaps and bounds. But we don't have the personnel, particularly on the defensive and offensive lines, but also at TE and WR. If Crowell comes back, we'll be OK at LB, not terrific, but OK. Saying that we don't have the personnel does NOT mean that all is hunky-dory with the coaching, though. We clearly need to get more aggressive, to force ourselves to become a team capable of power running in the situations where we need it, and to greatly improve clock management. But if you think that coaching is the reason for our lack of a pass rush, that Jauron's play calls are somehow responsible for our inability to hold up at center, I don't know what to say to you. We need a pass rusher, we need a big, powerful center, and a TE, and ... you know the rest. You can't be an excellent team in the NFL without a pass rush. Our personnel isn't there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Mitchell looked pretty good when he played us last year and returned an errant Edwards pass for a TD... Let me ask you this question. If Bellichick and his staff came to the Bills and Jauron and his staff went to the Patriots, do you think the teams would still have the same records as they do now? If you say no, then you just basically agreed to what I said earlier---good coaches can get more players to play up to their potential more than poor coaches. Belichick didn't make the playoffs this year. Was it because his coaching went downhill? He didn't have the players this year. And neither did we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Exactly... Belichick would own Dead Dick with almost any NFL Roster...It's a mismatch plain and simple... Belichick's a better coach. On the other hand, he's better than any other coach out there also. He's one of the all-time greats. Yet, when he loses Brady and his LBs get old and slow, he can't make the play offs. And you are seriously saying that if you give Belichick the Lions roster, that he beats Jauron's Bills. No way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I think the BIlls would win 3 more games, and the Pats would've had 2 more losses, both to the Bills because Belechek outcoaches Jauron every time. Jauron plays timid and conservative against teh Pats and gets run over by them. Teams that beat teh Pats attacked them, and through curves at them. The Wildcat used by teh Fish is an excellent example, and something Jauron would never have thought of here. Great point Belichek was outcoached in the super bowl last year He can be beat but you have to go on the attack and that not Jaurons style The thing that makes me shake my head the most about Jauron is that he doesnt play to win He plays to keep it close and pull it out in the end. In my eyes you will lose more than win by doing this and his record proves it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 The thing that makes me shake my head the most about Jauron is that he doesnt play to winHe plays to keep it close and pull it out in the end. In my eyes you will lose more than win by doing this and his record proves it AMEN. My sentiments exactly. That's why I wanted Dick fired the most. That, and his game day decisions. I think he's a fine coach 6 days out of the week. It's just the Lord's day that trips him up. In both Patriots games this year it looked like we weren't even trying to win. It was like any other game and we'll do the same stuff that's had marginal success all year and not try to do something to score some points and win. In football, the team that scores the most points wins. So, you should try to score as many points as you can. I honestly don't think Dick understands this. Dick thinks the team that makes the fewest mistakes wins. Sometimes, but even in that case it's still the team that scores the most points. See Dallas game last year ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Belichick didn't make the playoffs this year. Was it because his coaching went downhill? He didn't have the players this year. And neither did we. Belichick was 11-5 WITHOUT His Starting QB...His Injured Reserved List looked like an NFL who's who...And He still finished 4 Games ahead of Dead Dick... Keep making excuses for Jauron and He'll continue to make a fool out of You the same way He has the rest of Us Bills Fans...You're just a bit behind, but You'll understand this time Next Year...He'll get You too...Just give it time... I hope I'm wrong...But a career full of losing by Jauron Coached Teams says I'm right...And even if He does win one Year he'll just follow that up with a 4-12 Season...Look it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 And you are seriously saying that if you give Belichick the Lions roster, that he beats Jauron's Bills. No way. Yes that is EXACTLY what I'm saying... It's My opinion...I have a right...I'm of sound mind too...And I believe Belichick could beat Jauron with the Sisters of The Poor to be honest... Keep defending Ol' Dead Dick...You'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Little Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 The no-talent excuse is an enormous copout. Did the Dolphins finish 11-5 and win the AFC East because they're so damn talented? Absolutely not. Did they improve their roster from last year's 1-15 atrocity? Absolutely. Did they improve it enough to the point where they could win 10 more games without proper coaching? God, no. As I see it, Miami isn't a hell of a lot more talented than Buffalo (if at all); they're just better organized and better coached. They have a legitimate identity that they stick with and never waver from. That comes back to coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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