Ouch!

[Ray]

I like ML a lot but leaving a game, if it's true does show a lack of respect and concern for your team. For all of the "we are a close team" stuff we hear about this team, a real close team does have their players injured/inactive etc...on the field with their teammates. It always happened in the "golden days." Very disappointing if true.....but not uncommon in today's athletes. It's cold, windy, and I am leaving town tomorrow is the attitude and concern.

[3rdnlng]

Lynch = McGahee

 

 

Not even close.

[Heels20X6]

I like ML a lot but leaving a game, if it's true does show a lack of respect and concern for your team. For all of the "we are a close team" stuff we hear about this team, a real close team does have their players injured/inactive etc...on the field with their teammates. It always happened in the "golden days." Very disappointing if true.....but not uncommon in today's athletes. It's cold, windy, and I am leaving town tomorrow is the attitude and concern.

 

 

Do we know what he was doing after the game? Maybe he had rehab on his shoulder scheduled, or maybe he went down to the locker room to hang with the guys or maybe there was a sale on at Wegman's. Speculating why he left and what that speaks is ridiculous. ESPECIALLY when the player in question is one of the only players on the team that gives it 110% on EVERY play. Him and Fred Jackson are two of the few bright spots on this team who truly embody "Bills Football" in their smashmouth play and camaderie on and off the field.

 

If anything, why aren't we looking at our "glove-wearing Mary" and the rest of this team who hates practicing outside because its too cold and it might frost their noses?

 

Thurman lost all credibility to me when he mentioned Jauron doing a good job. Who knew he was still thinking like a Dolphin?

[dave mcbride]

Thurman shouldn't have signed with the Dolphins.

 

The last player on the team, to worry about their dedication to it, with the possible exception of Fred Jackson, is Marshawn. I have been watching the Bills since the mid 60s and I have never ever seen a player try harder on the field every play than Lynch. Others have equaled him, at pretty damn close to 100%, but I don't think I have ever seen more brute effort on a consistent basis. It's just not a worry, especially because word is he's a great guy in the locker room and everyone loves him on the team, including the coaches.

I like Lynch a lot, but haven't you said the same about all the Bills recent RBs? I remember similar posts about McGahee and Henry. I think it''s something about the position. Heck, in retrospect Antowain Smith was a hard runner.

[Ray]

Again...if it's true it is very disappointing but nobody knows what/where he went. Maybe he did go to the locker room after leaving the box. All my point is, is that it does show a lack of concern and respect if he did just pack up, leave and go home during the game.

[Kelly the Dog]

I like Lynch a lot, but haven't you said the same about all the Bills recent RBs? I remember similar posts about McGahee and Henry. I think it''s something about the position. Heck, in retrospect Antowain Smith was a hard runner.

There's a difference between often running hard and being tough to bring down and breaking tackles, like Henry and (sometimes) McGahee, and what Lynch does. Henry tried his ass off on most plays, there is no question. McGahee often ran hard, but he just as often danced and waited and packed it in when he didn't see a hole. I never really thought Antowain was a hard runner who tried on every play. Lynch and Jackson are really remarkable. It sucks that their individual and combined effort was wasted. And fairly surprising that it didn't wear off on the rest of the team. FWIW, Josh Reed tries pretty friggin' hard on almost all plays.

[Andrew in CA]

Lynch's play on the field the last several weeks spoke volumes. Thurman should have taken any criticism / suggestions to lynch directly and not aired them for idiots like us to debate. With that said, I do understand Thurman's point.

TITCR. I understand what Thurman is saying, but Lynch and Jackson are the only 2 guys on this team that stepped up at the end of the season. Marshawn may have left this game early, but the rest of the team was done six weeks ago. If Lynch had had a lackluster season with an obvious disdain for practice/teammates/contact/what have you, then I'd be furious. Let's not get in a tizzy.

[dave mcbride]

There's a difference between often running hard and being tough to bring down and breaking tackles, like Henry and (sometimes) McGahee, and what Lynch does. Henry tried his ass off on most plays, there is no question. McGahee often ran hard, but he just as often danced and waited and packed it in when he didn't see a hole. I never really thought Antowain was a hard runner who tried on every play. Lynch and Jackson are really remarkable. It sucks that their individual and combined effort was wasted. And fairly surprising that it didn't wear off on the rest of the team. FWIW, Josh Reed tries pretty friggin' hard on almost all plays.

I think Bills' fans perceptions of Smith are colored by his turf toe injury in 2000. He was a harder runner than people thought. Belichick thought enough of him to feature him in two super bowls despite the fact that he was damn slow by that point.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think Bills' fans perceptions of Smith are colored by his turf toe injury in 2000. He was a harder runner than people thought. Belichick thought enough of him to feature him in two super bowls despite the fact that he was damn slow by that point.

Most good runners and almost all 1000 yard backs run hard and Antowain often ran very hard. He often blew through tacklers like it was nothing. I was talking about every play, until (basically) after the whistle, refusing to go down. Hardly any first hit defender takes Lynch (or Jackson for that matter) down with a single hit. That simply wasn't the case with Antowain Smith. And I never saw him just carry 3-4-5 players for 3-4-5 yards like we saw Lynch and Jackson do more than a couple times. I did think Antowain was pretty good though, and think he was underrated by a lot of Bills fans. Of course, belicheck got a lot out of Sammy Morris, who is simply a decent back.

[dave mcbride]

There's a difference between often running hard and being tough to bring down and breaking tackles, like Henry and (sometimes) McGahee, and what Lynch does. Henry tried his ass off on most plays, there is no question. McGahee often ran hard, but he just as often danced and waited and packed it in when he didn't see a hole. I never really thought Antowain was a hard runner who tried on every play. Lynch and Jackson are really remarkable. It sucks that their individual and combined effort was wasted. And fairly surprising that it didn't wear off on the rest of the team. FWIW, Josh Reed tries pretty friggin' hard on almost all plays.

Check out these boxes from the 2003 playoffs. Smith was the man the Pats relied on, which indicates a lot given how smart their coach is. Also, Smith was about 95 in dog years by that point:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...00401100nwe.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...00401180nwe.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...00402010car.htm

[Stenbar]

Thurman shouldn't have signed with the Dolphins. The last player on the team, to worry about their dedication to it, with the possible exception of Fred Jackson, is Marshawn. I have been watching the Bills since the mid 60s and I have never ever seen a player try harder on the field every play than Lynch. Others have equaled him, at pretty damn close to 100%, but I don't think I have ever seen more brute effort on a consistent basis. It's just not a worry, especially because word is he's a great guy in the locker room and everyone loves him on the team, including the coaches.

Agreed but that has nothing to do with anyhting in this conversastion..

 

No one is questioning his work ethic or his game effort..Just why he wasnt down there supporting his teamates like he shouldve been..It's not worth arguing at this point the deed is done...Hopefully next time he does the right thing and acts like he is part of the team..Which is exactly what 100% of any coach at any level of football will tell every player...

[GG]

Most good runners and almost all 1000 yard backs run hard and Antowain often ran very hard. He often blew through tacklers like it was nothing. I was talking about every play, until (basically) after the whistle, refusing to go down. Hardly any first hit defender takes Lynch (or Jackson for that matter) down with a single hit. That simply wasn't the case with Antowain Smith. And I never saw him just carry 3-4-5 players for 3-4-5 yards like we saw Lynch and Jackson do more than a couple times. I did think Antowain was pretty good though, and think he was underrated by a lot of Bills fans. Of course, belicheck got a lot out of Sammy Morris, who is simply a decent back.

 

My fuzzy memory recalls that Smith would usually go down upon first contact at or behind the LoS, and he didn't exactly fit the uberback model that Joe Pendry wanted out of his RB, leading to the failed triumvirate of Smith, Morris & Linton.

[dave mcbride]

My fuzzy memory recalls that Smith would usually go down upon first contact at or behind the LoS, and he didn't exactly fit the uberback model that Joe Pendry wanted out of his RB, leading to the failed triumvirate of Smith, Morris & Linton.

You're remembering the 2000 season, and that was in fact the case. He had turf toe nearly the entire year. Watching Darren McFadden and LT this year, it's pretty clear that it's a tough injury to deal with. He looked pretty solid in 1998, 1999, and certainly 2001.

[Kelly the Dog]

Agreed but that has nothing to do with anyhting in this conversastion..

 

No one is questioning his work ethic or his game effort..Just why he wasnt down there supporting his teamates like he shouldve been..It's not worth arguing at this point the deed is done...Hopefully next time he does the right thing and acts like he is part of the team..Which is exactly what 100% of any coach at any level of football will tell every player...

But the idea that he wasn't there supporting his teammates like he should have been implies (well, actually comes out and states) that he is not a "team player". That he doesn't buy into the team concept. That he is all about himself at times. And that the team is somehow lessened by the fact that not all of its collective members are in it as one 100%. But it seems virtually impossible to me that any teammate could look at what Marshawn Lynch does and say he is not a team player, he doesn't buy into the team concept, he is all about himself and not the team, and that the team is lessened because Marshawn Lynch does not buy into this thing 100%. That seems impossible to me, because they all know in their hearts, he tries more than they do for the team.

 

So I am having a very hard time seeing how leaving that game lessens Marshawn's role as a team player in the eyes of his teammates or even coaches, or lessens the ability of the team to perform as a team on Sundays, which is really what we are talking about here.

[RkFast]

Here we go again with another version of "Bills Fan's Big rooster Syndrome."

 

Headsets, headbands, gloves, "blue collar", etc.

 

Now its sitting in a box vs. on the field and "braving" the elements.

 

Jim Kelly is not playing any more.

 

Get the !@#$ over it.

[Kelly the Dog]

Check out these boxes from the 2003 playoffs. Smith was the man the Pats relied on, which indicates a lot given how smart their coach is. Also, Smith was about 95 in dog years by that point:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...00401100nwe.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...00401180nwe.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...00402010car.htm

I didnt think we were talking about yards and production and being on Super Bowl teams. I thought we were talking about trying a full 100% on every single play.

 

FWIW, I think if you put Marshawn Lynch in Antowain's Smith's position, on those teams, with those carries, Lynch does at least as well and very likely significantly better.

[dave mcbride]

I didnt think we were talking about yards and production and being on Super Bowl teams. I thought we were talking about trying a full 100% on every single play.

 

FWIW, I think if you put Marshawn Lynch in Antowain's Smith's position, on those teams, with those carries, Lynch does at least as well and very likely significantly better.

No doubt - Lynch is certainly a better back. Antowain was never more than a poor man's Eddie George -- not as fast as advertised. Still, he was a plugger who didn't make killer mistakes, punished defenses late in games, and did a lot of the dirty work for a dominant team. My simple point is that Bills fans didn't appreciate him. He had his strengths.

[stuckincincy]

Here we go again with another version of "Bills Fan's Big rooster Syndrome."

 

Headsets, headbands, gloves, "blue collar", etc.

 

Now its sitting in a box vs. on the field and "braving" the elements.

 

Jim Kelly is not playing any more.

 

Get the !@#$ over it.

 

 

 

If you are on a team, and you are able - you are on the sidelines.

 

"Jim Kelly is not playing any more.". True. But even in this jaded player era, team spirit and obligation is far from dead. If I read you correctly, you tossed a general insult against the very large majority of NFL players.

 

Poor form, RK...

[GG]

No doubt - Lynch is certainly a better back. Antowain was never more than a poor man's Eddie George -- not as fast as advertised. Still, he was a plugger who didn't make killer mistakes, punished defenses late in games, and did a lot of the dirty work for a dominant team. My simple point is that Bills fans didn't appreciate him. He had his strengths.

 

But that was the rub, his production increased as he got more carries. Looking at his split stats with Patriots, the bulk of his yardage came in the second half (esp in 4Q) as Pats protected the leads. But with Smith's slow starts in Buffalo, there wasn't enough confidence from the Bills' coaches to keep giving him the ball. There was little confidence in his catching ability either, reducing him to a two-down back. That's why he never got the 20-25 carries that he needed.

[dave mcbride]

But that was the rub, his production increased as he got more carries. Looking at his split stats with Patriots, the bulk of his yardage came in the second half (esp in 4Q) as Pats protected the leads. But with Smith's slow starts in Buffalo, there wasn't enough confidence from the Bills' coaches to keep giving him the ball. There was little confidence in his catching ability either, reducing him to a two-down back. That's why he never got the 20-25 carries that he needed.

All true. Word has it that the Pats' coaching staff was better than the Bills at utilizing talent ...