The Dean Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 Look, Dean, I'll concede that neither side of this argument can prove its claims. Let's get back to the real point, shall we? The one that says that Ralph is hoarding cash and will never pay a quality coach to come here, even to entertain them so they could turn US down. I originally responded to this comment: BTW, what is the point of the Toronto thing if he's just going to use that money to trick out his Taurus? I responded that there is more at play here than simply putting $$ in Ralph's pockets...I think that is clear there is a more complex strategy. Sisyphean suggested he knew nothing of it, then (of course) said he knew about it after I explained it. Furthermore, the TO money just started coming in, THIS YEAR. To fault Ralph for not spending the TO money on a HC is foolish, as he hasn't made a HC decision yet, nor have they entered FA yet. In other words, people should think about what they post before they post. It's easy to call Ralph cheap, but to call him cheap with the TO $ is foolish, as he really hasn't had the opportunity to do anything with it yet. You points (and Sisyphean's) might have merit in the spring. Now they are putting the blame before the action (or non-action). Some people can't even wait for a guy to make a mistake before they bash him for it. Bash him for not spending his money in the past, but not the TO money, which is new, this year. To put it simply, bashing, without any attempt at fairness, logic, or getting the facts straight, is offensive to me. There is a lot of simply bashing that goes on here.
TheChimp Posted December 29, 2008 Author Posted December 29, 2008 Well then at least forget the Toronto comments and argue the point of the thread. K?
The Dean Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 In the Sullivan article, it was reported unambiguously that Wilson said he had no plans to use the money from the Toronto deal on players. (I know, Sullivan doesn't know football, so he must be a liar. ) Not only doesn't Sully know football, he has no idea what Ralph will or won't do. Had you prefaced your assertions with "based on the musings of Jerry Sullivan", I probably would have just left it alone. I didn't think anyone actually looked to Sully for objective reporting, or as a source of facts.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 Not only doesn't Sully know football, he has no idea what Ralph will or won't do. Had you prefaced your assertions with "based on the musings of Jerry Sullivan", I probably would have just left it alone. I didn't think anyone actually looked to Sully for objective reporting, or as a source of facts. Right. Because as a professional newspaper journalist, he makes sh-- up just like pompous posters on TSW.
TheChimp Posted December 29, 2008 Author Posted December 29, 2008 But the POINT was, who really thinks that Ralph has plans to hire someone who will cost him big money?
The Dean Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 Well then at least forget the Toronto comments and argue the point of the thread. K? The point of the thread is what, exactly? (I actually think I addressed it, but here goes again). That Ralph won't hire Cower? I agree...but think it has nothing to do with money. I don't think that Cower comes to Buffalo for any (reasonable) amount of money. That Ralph won't hire Shotty? If DJ gets the boot, I think Ralph will talk to Marty, and Marty won't come out of retirement to coach the Bills. Now, I hope that Ralph tries with either or both of these guys, but I don't think money will be the reason they don't come. Who would you like Ralph to throw a pile of money at, that might actually take the job? If it is Billick, and he fails, is it Ralph's fault for getting another retread? As I noted elsewhere, the successfully new HCs this year are ROOKIE Head Coaches, that were coordinators. If Ralph goes with a coordinator, is he following a trend that has been successful, or too cheap to get a HC with experience (who might also fail a la Jauron)? While money may (and probably does) play a part in the Bills recent coaching failures, simply spending more money isn't necessarily the answer. You can look at the success of recent Miami coaches (before Sparano) to see that philosophy in action.
TheChimp Posted December 29, 2008 Author Posted December 29, 2008 Parcells wasn't cheap, I bet. So when you count the GM position needing to be filled, the chances that Ralph gets even ONE of those two positions filled by quality goes down even more.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 Parcells wasn't cheap, I bet. So when you count the GM position needing to be filled, the chances that Ralph gets even ONE of those two positions filled by quality goes down even more. Did you see all the empty seats in the stadium today? PC: "You're right, Mac. Better put it all on marketing."
The Dean Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 Right. Because as a professional newspaper journalist, he makes sh-- up just like pompous posters on TSW. Just so we're clear. While technically a "journalist" Sully is NOT a reporter and doesn't operate using the assumed tenants of fairness and objectivity, like a reporter does. He is a columnist, paid to write his opinion. Furthermore, he has taken the role of the "s#it stirrer"...he is trying to create controversy...and sees himself as a thorn in the Bills' side.
TheChimp Posted December 29, 2008 Author Posted December 29, 2008 Because, again, I'm not putting the money before the choice, as you keep insisting. I am saying that I believe the BILLS owner will not even approach guys who have the qualities needed to build a winner here, because they will be the types of guys who already demand bigger money than Ralph has ever spent.
The Dean Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 Because, again, I'm not putting the money before the choice, as you keep insisting. I am saying that I believe the BILLS owner will not even approach guys who have the qualities needed to build a winner here, because they will be the types of guys who already demand bigger money than Ralph has ever spent. Give me NAMES. Who would you like to see here, that might actually come, who Ralph will not offer enough money to get?
TheChimp Posted December 29, 2008 Author Posted December 29, 2008 Give me NAMES. Who would you like to see here, that might actually come, who Ralph will not offer enough money to get? Well, I'm not privy to all the current GMs and their contracts. But if there are any that are coming to the end of their contracts and have winning records with their current teams or their overall record, I'd start with them. If none are available in that pool, I'd look at anyone THEY recommend. Retired GMs? Sure, if they have winning records. Then, I'd let THEM pick the HC and staff, making certain that they chose wisely. Again, with this many years in the NFL, the abundance of peers to solicit must be astounding. Ralph simply needs to beat feet and start interviewing EVERYONE.
billybob Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 I originally responded to this comment: I responded that there is more at play here than simply putting $$ in Ralph's pockets...I think that is clear there is a more complex strategy. Sisyphean suggested he knew nothing of it, then (of course) said he knew about it after I explained it. Furthermore, the TO money just started coming in, THIS YEAR. To fault Ralph for not spending the TO money on a HC is foolish, as he hasn't made a HC decision yet, nor have they entered FA yet. In other words, people should think about what they post before they post. It's easy to call Ralph cheap, but to call him cheap with the TO $ is foolish, as he really hasn't had the opportunity to do anything with it yet. You points (and Sisyphean's) might have merit in the spring. Now they are putting the blame before the action (or non-action). Some people can't even wait for a guy to make a mistake before they bash him for it. Bash him for not spending his money in the past, but not the TO money, which is new, this year. To put it simply, bashing, without any attempt at fairness, logic, or getting the facts straight, is offensive to me. There is a lot of simply bashing that goes on here. While I do think Ralph is kinda cheap that's not the big problem- the big problem is Ralph wants the type of Coach and GM that will take a lot of input from Ralph- also it's important for Ralph that everybody gets along- too bad that most of the best coaches and GMs have big egos and don't want an owner meddling and want to be able to fire the people who they consider inadequate.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 Just so we're clear. While technically a "journalist" Sully is NOT a reporter and doesn't operate using the assumed tenants of fairness and objectivity, like a reporter does. He is a columnist, paid to write his opinion. Furthermore, he has taken the role of the "s#it stirrer"...he is trying to create controversy...and sees himself as a thorn in the Bills' side. How thin are you going to try to slice it anyway? Jerry Sullivan isn't going to quote Ralph Wilson Jr. complete with quotation marks and insert bull sh-- that he made up on a trip to the restroom.
BuffaloRebound Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 Give me NAMES. Who would you like to see here, that might actually come, who Ralph will not offer enough money to get? No one good is coming if Wilson is still the owner. Why would they? He ran the only good GM he ever had out of town and no one knows what will happen when Ralph passes on. Anyone who cares about their reputation would never accept the GM or head coaching job with Wilson as the owner and in a division with Parcells and Belichik. The only good news may be that Ralph is running out of options to appease the fanbase and in this economy the Bills aren't going anywhere except Toronto and that is a long-shot as well with Rogers out of the picture. It would not surprise me if Ralph sells the team this off-season. He's too old to change and even he has to see that is exactly what this organization needs.
bdelma Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 Just so we're clear. While technically a "journalist" Sully is NOT a reporter and doesn't operate using the assumed tenants of fairness and objectivity, like a reporter does. He is a columnist, paid to write his opinion. Furthermore, he has taken the role of the "s#it stirrer"...he is trying to create controversy...and sees himself as a thorn in the Bills' side. At least tries to stir it up. Who in Buffalo will Ed Kilgore, Allan Wilson Don Esmonde, Howard Simon.
The Dean Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 How thin are you going to try to slice it anyway? Jerry Sullivan isn't going to quote Ralph Wilson Jr. complete with quotation marks and insert bull sh-- that he made up on a trip to the restroom. Ralph doesn't give quotes to Sully. Sully is not a trusted reporter, in the eyes of the Bills. Don't assume that Sully got any inside info from Ralph. What you are spinning, is Sully's take on the situation.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 Well, I'm not privy to all the current GMs and their contracts. But if there are any that are coming to the end of their contracts and have winning records with their current teams or their overall record, I'd start with them. If none are available in that pool, I'd look at anyone THEY recommend. Retired GMs? Sure, if they have winning records. Then, I'd let THEM pick the HC and staff, making certain that they chose wisely. Again, with this many years in the NFL, the abundance of peers to solicit must be astounding. Ralph simply needs to beat feet and start interviewing EVERYONE. The Bills are in a similar situation as they were in the 70's. After SUCKING for years Ralph finally hired Chuck Knox who brought the Bills back to respectability & he did it fairly quickly too. My HOPE is Ralph repeats history & hires a GOOD coach NOW.
bdelma Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 It simply doesn't say what you claim it does..."his interest in selling the team has nothing to do with keeping them in Buffalo". In fact, it could be argued that the TO strategy is an attempt to give the highest bidder a reason to keep the team in Buffalo. Show me a quote where Ralph says "I have no interest in whether the team stays in Buffalo after I die" (or something to that effect) and I will concede your point. But, remember, Ralph isn't planning on dying soon. He wants to make the team more valuable in Buffalo for HIM, first. That is the proper strategy if you want to show others it can be valuable there, too. Spending the $$ on a HC wasn't a part of the strategy, that I know of. But, even if it was, this was the FIRST year of the deal...you might want to wait until he makes a coaching decision before accusing him of not spending $$ on a HC. Jauron was under contract, and wasn't about to be replaced before the end of the year, money or no money. And, remember, $$ doesn't guarantee a good coach and success. If he doubled DJ's salary would you be happy? How about hiring someone who has a clue. Maybe a someone from a winning organization would help.
bdelma Posted December 29, 2008 Posted December 29, 2008 The Bills are in a similar situation as they were in the 70's. After SUCKING for years Ralph finally hired Chuck Knox who brought the Bills back to respectability & he did it fairly quickly too. My HOPE is Ralph repeats history & hires a GOOD coach NOW. Ralph was a younger man when he hired Chuck Knox. He will just fine tune the team again, again and again
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