BillnutinHouston Posted October 29, 2004 Posted October 29, 2004 The fair way to judge the trade, three years from now, is whether JP is better than any available QB that we could have gotten with the pick we sent Dallas. If the answer is yes and JP outperforms the QBs that were available in our spot from this year's draft, then the trade was a good one. If not, then the trade was bad. 90888[/snapback] Correct.
1billsfan Posted October 29, 2004 Author Posted October 29, 2004 Yes. Stokeley you smartass. Stokeley is currently ranked #8 in the AFC in receiving yards and he came cheap. Lee Evans has done very little for us this year and is being paid quite a bit. Teams who make headlines on draft day never win. It's the teams that make smart free agent pickups and obtain solid veterans at a bargain price that do win. Read: Patriots. 91352[/snapback] Lee Evans - He will be a major headache for any opposing defensive coordinators his entire career. Brandon Stokely - He's a scrappy player who reaps the rewards of having a top QB and top receiver who garners all of the defensive attention. You could throw half of the NFL receivers into Stokeleys shoes and they would still have his numbers. Give me a break with Stokeley please. That comparison is not even a close one.
Bill from NYC Posted October 29, 2004 Posted October 29, 2004 In the last 2 years we have drafted MaGahee, Evans and Losman. By the end of the year, all will be starting. So we got an extra blue chip player a year early. For that, we basically gave up a 5th round pick in 2004. BFD. Now people are worried Dallas may get a top 5 pick in the 2005 Draft with our pick. That pick could BOMB and will certainly cost a cap ransom, for a completely UNPROVEN player. Does the name Mike Williams ring a bell ? I'd rather go get someone in March Free Agency, a PROVEN NFL player, than gamble on some college player. Whatever. Blather on with inane jealousy of a supposed top 5 pick that will crush the cap and is completely UNPROVEN. Meanwhile the Bills drafted a RB,WR and QB who are here, on the roster and will all be STARTING by the conclusion of this year. That #1 pick crap is sooooooo played. I'm not impressed unless you can show me MaGahee, Evans and Losman are complete busts with no hope. You can't. Meanwhile , the Bills will use the $$ to sign a proven NFL Vet in March. I'm AWARE we need help in other areas, such as OL. Drew Bledsoe's salary will help pay that . TD's major BLUNDER was BLEDSOE ! B-L-E-D-S-O-E . Drew Bledsoe. That was the mistake which has set this team back 1-2 years. Drafting MaGahee, Evans and Losman turned out to be pretty smart. 91356[/snapback] I wish I could understand this. Explain it to me on Sunday, please. First, you list Williams as a bust (which he is), and then state that Bledsoe was his biggest mistake? Remember, Drew cost a 16th pick one year after the fact. He was NOT a 36 million dollar #4. As for the "trade," yes, there certainly top 5 busts. Also to be considered are Ogden, Pace, Bruce Smith, LT, etc, no? Not only that, there are trade downs! The jackass jests used two traded down picks for Abraham and Ellis as I recall. Sorry, getting a #27 is not enough for a 5th, 2nd and a top 5 pick. It would be laughable if not so sad for the Bills. Hindsight perhaps, but TD is getting paid to lead this franchise, not destroy it.
1billsfan Posted October 29, 2004 Author Posted October 29, 2004 I wish I could understand this. Explain it to me on Sunday, please. First, you list Williams as a bust (which he is), and then state that Bledsoe was his biggest mistake? Remember, Drew cost a 16th pick one year after the fact. He was NOT a 36 million dollar #4. As for the "trade," yes, there certainly top 5 busts. Also to be considered are Ogden, Pace, Bruce Smith, LT, etc, no? Not only that, there are trade downs! The jackass jests used two traded down picks for Abraham and Ellis as I recall. Sorry, getting a #27 is not enough for a 5th, 2nd and a top 5 pick. It would be laughable if not so sad for the Bills. Hindsight perhaps, but TD is getting paid to lead this franchise, not destroy it. 91532[/snapback] So you're not happy with having Evans, McGahee and Loseman? Sorry, but I look around the league and do not see a team with three young studs at high priority skill positions like the Bills have. I'm more than satisfied with having these guys here and I'm excited about the future of this team. Once Bledsoe is demoted the next head on the choping block will be TD's, as it should be. Next season will no doubt be Donahoe's season on the brink.
Guest Guest Posted October 29, 2004 Posted October 29, 2004 So you're not happy with having Evans, McGahee and Loseman? Sorry, but I look around the league and do not see a team with three young studs at high priority skill positions like the Bills have. I'm more than satisfied with having these guys here and I'm excited about the future of this team. Once Bledsoe is demoted the next head on the choping block will be TD's, as it should be. Next season will no doubt be Donahoe's season on the brink. 91593[/snapback] You mean high upside, potential studs, don't you? None of these 3 have proven anything other than they have upside. One (Losman) hasn't even stepped out onto the football field in a real game yet!
Dawgg Posted October 29, 2004 Posted October 29, 2004 How the hell do you know this? Josh Reed was supposed to be a productive NFL receiver. After 3 years, the jury is still out. David Terrell, JJ Stokes, Peter Warrick the list goes on and on for receivers chosen with high first round picks that never materialized. That said, I like Lee Evans and think he is the real deal. BUT.. bottom line, drafting Losman and signing Stokeley would have allowed us to keep our first rounder from next year while providing help on the opposite side. Then next year, we can draft that receiver of the future. I think keeping your first rounders is better than throwing them away. Lee Evans - He will be a major headache for any opposing defensive coordinators his entire career.91466[/snapback]
Dawgg Posted October 29, 2004 Posted October 29, 2004 Agreed. There was once upon a time when Heath Shuler and Ryan Leaf were considered bright spots for their respective franchises. Donahoe basically filled our team with a bunch of expensive question marks. You mean high upside, potential studs, don't you? None of these 3 have proven anything other than they have upside. One (Losman) hasn't even stepped out onto the football field in a real game yet! 91634[/snapback]
1billsfan Posted October 29, 2004 Author Posted October 29, 2004 How the hell do you know this? Josh Reed was supposed to be a productive NFL receiver. After 3 years, the jury is still out. David Terrell, JJ Stokes, Peter Warrick the list goes on and on for receivers chosen with high first round picks that never materialized. That said, I like Lee Evans and think he is the real deal. BUT.. bottom line, drafting Losman and signing Stokeley would have allowed us to keep our first rounder from next year while providing help on the opposite side. Then next year, we can draft that receiver of the future. I think keeping your first rounders is better than throwing them away. 91679[/snapback] Because I have eyes. You want stats??? 24.8 per catch dog. He also had an easy touchdown against the Dolphins if Bledsoe had not out thrown him by 10 yards. He's a rookie and already defenses have been keying on him. Don't even mention Reeds name in the same sentence as Evans. Reed NEVER showed that kind of ability, ever. You like Lee Evans and think he's the real deal, yet you wish we had an unknown unproven high draft pick to dump millions on instead. Sorry, I just don't get that kind of logic.
1billsfan Posted October 29, 2004 Author Posted October 29, 2004 Agreed. There was once upon a time when Heath Shuler and Ryan Leaf were considered bright spots for their respective franchises. Donahoe basically filled our team with a bunch of expensive question marks. 91701[/snapback] Wha wha wha...I don't want Loseman, McGahee and Evans...whaaaaa....I want draft picks! Whaaaa...Give me more draft picks! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa They haven't proved anything? Evans and McGahee have proven they've got "it" to me. I'm sorry if you guys are a little slow here.
Mark VI Posted October 29, 2004 Posted October 29, 2004 Wha wha wha...I don't want Loseman, McGahee and Evans...whaaaaa....I want draft picks! Whaaaa...Give me more draft picks! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa They haven't proved anything? Evans and McGahee have proven they've got "it" to me. I'm sorry if you guys are a little slow here. 91724[/snapback] I agree. TD is FAR from perfect and deserves his criticism . Still, wishing Losman and Evans were not here for some phantom draft pick is just silly. Plus those who keep going on about that Draft pick pretend the March Free Agency period isn't a viable option. A proven NFL Player isn't as good as a draft pick who has proven nothing at the NFL level but will cost multi millions per season. Gotcha.
ATBNG Posted October 29, 2004 Posted October 29, 2004 Evans and Losman are two different situations. Evans was a normal pick by the team based on record. He will be judged by how well he plays versus other wide receivers and nearby draft choices from last year. Wide receivers generally take some time to develop in the NFL, so I think obviously it is prudent to wait before passing judgment on him. He’s shown speed and separation, but let’s not get carried away – he’s averaging less than 2 catches per game and that in part is contributing to his high average. Roy Williams has been the clear monster receiver so far in the draft (not that he was an option). Losman on the other hand (and this is unfair to him) represents a far larger investment than Evans because the sum of what was traded for him far exceeds his value. On paper, the Bills got hosed in this deal. Dallas was 10-6 last year. The Bills could go 9-1 down the stretch, and still the end result of this trade would be that the Bills gave Dallas a 2 and a 5 on top of what was an equal swap, making it a bad trade from a value standpoint. The Losman trade is somewhat akin to playing a pair of fours opposite a pair of jacks in hold ‘em. Sure the Bills may win the hand if they catch a four on the flop (and Losman is a star and Dallas doesn’t equal him with their three picks), but in the long run the guy with jacks is going to be the winner.
ATBNG Posted October 29, 2004 Posted October 29, 2004 In the last 2 years we have drafted MaGahee, Evans and Losman. By the end of the year, all will be starting. So we got an extra blue chip player a year early. For that, we basically gave up a 5th round pick in 2004. BFD. Now people are worried Dallas may get a top 5 pick in the 2005 Draft with our pick. That pick could BOMB and will certainly cost a cap ransom, for a completely UNPROVEN player. Does the name Mike Williams ring a bell ? I'd rather go get someone in March Free Agency, a PROVEN NFL player, than gamble on some college player. Whatever. Blather on with inane jealousy of a supposed top 5 pick that will crush the cap and is completely UNPROVEN. Meanwhile the Bills drafted a RB,WR and QB who are here, on the roster and will all be STARTING by the conclusion of this year. That #1 pick crap is sooooooo played. I'm not impressed unless you can show me MaGahee, Evans and Losman are complete busts with no hope. You can't. Meanwhile , the Bills will use the $$ to sign a proven NFL Vet in March. I'm AWARE we need help in other areas, such as OL. Drew Bledsoe's salary will help pay that . TD's major BLUNDER was BLEDSOE ! B-L-E-D-S-O-E . Drew Bledsoe. That was the mistake which has set this team back 1-2 years. Drafting MaGahee, Evans and Losman turned out to be pretty smart. 91356[/snapback] You just keep contradicting yourself over and over Mark. You're all about acquiring proven NFL players versus draft picks while simultaneously pushing three unknown pro quantities as "blue chips." I admire your optimism, but you're not making a lot of sense to me. Banking on Evans, McGahee and Losman is "gambling on college players." They have 525 NFL yards between the 3 of them at this point. They have not yet played in a big game. They have not shown they can take the pounding game in and game out. Hopefully they will, but it is way too soon to tell. Agree with the last point though.
Dawgg Posted October 29, 2004 Posted October 29, 2004 I couldn't have said it better. This is what I was trying to get at, but 1billsfan doesn't seem to get it. From a value standpoint, the Bills gave this year's #2 and next year's #1 for the right to choose Losman. That is simply not a smart way to do business and reaks of a GM who was trying to make a splash with his job on the line. It's like charging way too much on your credit card on something you clearly cannot afford. The team should have decided what direction it was going to take. If Lee Evans is "that" good, then find your quarterback in the later rounds. It has been done before. Alternatively, if acquiring the QB of the future was a priority, then find a receiver in later rounds. (Read: Anquan Boldin). But you don't overpay for one player. Winning teams NEVER do that. Minnesota gave up a King's ransom to acquire Herschel Walker. Dallas made out like a bandit and it proved to be key building blocks for their Super Bowl run. New Orleans gave up their whole draft for Ricky Williams. Look where they are now!!! Evans and Losman are two different situations. Evans was a normal pick by the team based on record. He will be judged by how well he plays versus other wide receivers and nearby draft choices from last year. Wide receivers generally take some time to develop in the NFL, so I think obviously it is prudent to wait before passing judgment on him. He’s shown speed and separation, but let’s not get carried away – he’s averaging less than 2 catches per game and that in part is contributing to his high average. Roy Williams has been the clear monster receiver so far in the draft (not that he was an option). Losman on the other hand (and this is unfair to him) represents a far larger investment than Evans because the sum of what was traded for him far exceeds his value. On paper, the Bills got hosed in this deal. Dallas was 10-6 last year. The Bills could go 9-1 down the stretch, and still the end result of this trade would be that the Bills gave Dallas a 2 and a 5 on top of what was an equal swap, making it a bad trade from a value standpoint. The Losman trade is somewhat akin to playing a pair of fours opposite a pair of jacks in hold ‘em. Sure the Bills may win the hand if they catch a four on the flop (and Losman is a star and Dallas doesn’t equal him with their three picks), but in the long run the guy with jacks is going to be the winner. 91806[/snapback]
1billsfan Posted October 30, 2004 Author Posted October 30, 2004 I couldn't have said it better. This is what I was trying to get at, but 1billsfan doesn't seem to get it. From a value standpoint, the Bills gave this year's #2 and next year's #1 for the right to choose Losman. That is simply not a smart way to do business and reaks of a GM who was trying to make a splash with his job on the line. It's like charging way too much on your credit card on something you clearly cannot afford. The team should have decided what direction it was going to take. If Lee Evans is "that" good, then find your quarterback in the later rounds. It has been done before. Alternatively, if acquiring the QB of the future was a priority, then find a receiver in later rounds. (Read: Anquan Boldin). But you don't overpay for one player. Winning teams NEVER do that. Minnesota gave up a King's ransom to acquire Herschel Walker. Dallas made out like a bandit and it proved to be key building blocks for their Super Bowl run. New Orleans gave up their whole draft for Ricky Williams. Look where they are now!!! 91889[/snapback] Ok, I'm sick of the whining. Loseman, McGahee and Evans all suck and the Bills are billsfanone. Happy now? Go Bills!
1billsfan Posted October 30, 2004 Author Posted October 30, 2004 Ok, I'm sick of the whining. Loseman, McGahee and Evans all suck and the Bills are billsfanone. Happy now?Go Bills! 91926[/snapback] WTF????? The word do_omed was replaced by billsfanone. Thanks for f'ing with my reply.
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