Could we get a first round pick for Whitner?

[1billsfan]

I have a question - if you had to cut one of either Peters or Whitner tomorrow who would you? I can see the reasoning behind defending Whitner. We've been watching so many zombies lumbering around the football field for 10 years that when we see a guy who shows some tenacity and leadership we kind of cling to them. If Peters had half the heart that Whitner had then he would be a perenial all pro with a fat contract. And I am by no means vindicating the play of Whitner for the most part, although I don't think that he is close to as bad as some people here are making him out to be. As a matter of fact I find the people who rip him for not being able to cover Coles or Marshall and then citing the fact that he was supposed to be able to line up at CB if need be, to be a little silly. If you can cover a Laverneus Coles or a Brandon Marshall man to man then you are starting at Cornerback for an NFL team. Donte Whitner isn't a starting Cornerback in the NFL the last time I checked. But I'd like to see more from him, a lot more.

 

 

That is an easy question, I'd take Jason Peters.

 

Peter's is fast becoming a perennial all pro (though this year it was a dubious selection). Peters was an undrafted TE prospect who made himself into one of the league's premier LTs. Exactly what about that fact lends you to believe that the guy has no heart? Just because you don't like his negotiation tactics? That he feels like he's tremendously underpaid?

 

Whitner is the polar opposite. He was a top ten pick in the draft who has NEVER lived up to that! Please don't give me that crap about his heart vs Peters' lack of heart. Give me a break.

[Erik]

That is an easy question, I'd take Jason Peter's.

 

Peter's is fast becoming a perennial all pro (though this year it was a dubious selection). Peter's was an undrafted TE prospect who made himself into one of the league's premier LTs. Exactly what about that fact lends you to believe that the guy has no heart? Just becuase you don't like his negotiation tactics? That he feels like he's tremendously underpaid?

 

Whitner is the polar opposite. He was a top ten pick in the draft who has NEVER lived up to that! Please don't give me that crap about his heart vs Peter's lack of heart. Give me a break.

 

OK...since everyone likes to compare our deficiencies to NE's superiority, how many lazy players on the Pats have held out into a season since Belichick became coach? I can think of one - Deion Branch, and he was shipped off before he could say "Show me the money".

[billybob]

I have a question - if you had to cut one of either Peters or Whitner tomorrow who would you? I can see the reasoning behind defending Whitner. We've been watching so many zombies lumbering around the football field for 10 years that when we see a guy who shows some tenacity and leadership we kind of cling to them. If Peters had half the heart that Whitner had then he would be a perenial all pro with a fat contract. And I am by no means vindicating the play of Whitner for the most part, although I don't think that he is close to as bad as some people here are making him out to be. As a matter of fact I find the people who rip him for not being able to cover Coles or Marshall and then citing the fact that he was supposed to be able to line up at CB if need be, to be a little silly. If you can cover a Laverneus Coles or a Brandon Marshall man to man then you are starting at Cornerback for an NFL team. Donte Whitner isn't a starting Cornerback in the NFL the last time I checked. But I'd like to see more from him, a lot more.

If I had to cut one I'd be Whitner no doubt- and btw I'm not ripping Whitner or even the Poz I think they go out and play hard and that's all you can ask from a player, the people I'm ripping are the Bills organization for making stupid picks and In the case of the Poz Bills fans who gloss this kid when his production is average a best - I started to rant but stopped myself.

[Speedy G]

If I had to cut one I'd be Whitner no doubt- and btw I'm not ripping Whitner or even the Poz I think they go out and play hard and that's all you can ask from a player, the people I'm ripping are the Bills organization for making stupid picks and In the case of the Poz Bills fans who gloss this kid when his production is average a best - I started to rant but stopped myself.

 

Poz is still a rookie so next year we shall see if he has what it takes!

[spartacus]

OK...since everyone likes to compare our deficiencies to NE's superiority, how many lazy players on the Pats have held out into a season since Belichick became coach? I can think of one - Deion Branch, and he was shipped off before he could say "Show me the money".

 

 

the reason the Pats don't have stupid holdouts is that they don;t pinch pennies for players that deserve market value.

 

The Bills, on the other hand, have their COO directing a smear campaign against their best player, who is only the 3rd highest paid guy on his own OL.

 

The Bills promised to re-do his deal this year if he came in - and have now reneged on that promise.

[LabattBlue]

The guy is committed, and he's consistently getting better on the field. He's still young, especially for a safety which is a difficult position to learn in the NFL.

IMO Whitner's play has regressed from his rookie year.

[spartacus]

Poz is still a rookie so next year we shall see if he has what it takes!

 

POZ will be in his 3rd year next

 

his career will be half over

 

let's hope he starts to perform at a level worthy of a high 2nd and high 3rd pick

 

slow and white don't make him good

[billsfreak]

OK...since everyone likes to compare our deficiencies to NE's superiority, how many lazy players on the Pats have held out into a season since Belichick became coach? I can think of one - Deion Branch, and he was shipped off before he could say "Show me the money".

Great point, but I can think of one other Patriot that was whining for more money-Lawyer Milloy. They cut him right before week one because they didn't wanna hear his complaining. I'll tell ya, I cant stomach the Cheatriots or Belicheat, but I wish more organizations handled those situations like that.

[My Friends Call Me Tebucky]

Unreal how fans dog players especially when there's so many others to pick on. Watching almost every Bills game i can say we're lucky to have Donte. Safety's aren't supposed to have a lota tackles, they are the last resort. D Whit is a hitter and he is fast enough in this league. He needs a saftey beside him so they can do something. Everyone thinks he's overrated. Rated by who?! who cares, this kid plays hard and is dedicated to winning. Ugh i think we need to stop hating jus cuz he was picked so high. Whitner is one of my favorite players. Pick on Denney and Loseman or ellison geez!!!!!

 

 

If people need to stop hating on him "just cuz" he was picked so high, others need to stop thinking he's very good "just cuz" he was picked so high.

[billybob]

POZ will be in his 3rd year next

 

his career will be half over

 

let's hope he starts to perform at a level worthy of a high 2nd and high 3rd pick

 

slow and white don't make him good

I'm going to say some things I like about the POZ - he's a hard worker and he seems pretty bright but his best position would be inside in a 3-4 defense

[Thurman#1]

...we get the same or better production from Simpson, Wilson or a second or third round draft pick?

 

The reason I ask this is because I'd like Alex Mack C AND a defensive mauler be it DE or LB drafted in the first round. If Jauron goes then all ties to Whitner are gone in my book. Whitner has never lived up to the hype but I think that there could be teams out there who might bite on getting him based on the continued hype that follows him for some unknown reason.

 

I want the Bills to keep Greer and have him along with McKelvin, McGee, Corner for a solid CB situation. The Bills need a center and a defensive playmaker much more than keeping the disappointing Whitner. Every time I see him, I think about how stupid it was not to draft Ngata.

 

 

It doesn't matter because there is no chance of trading him. I'm not a huge fan of having picked Whitner, he's not a big impact guy, but he's the best safety we have, and we're about as likely to trade him as Stroud, Edwards or Posluszny.

[Thurman#1]

OK...since everyone likes to compare our deficiencies to NE's superiority, how many lazy players on the Pats have held out into a season since Belichick became coach? I can think of one - Deion Branch, and he was shipped off before he could say "Show me the money".

 

 

Ty Law did, didn't he? Who they paid ungodly money to for a one-year contract while they drafted his replacement. See, they needed Law, but they didn't need Branch.

 

In any case, the Pats have the luxury of a superb lineup. When you have that, you can afford to show no tolerance. But when you have a lineup like ours, certain players are flat-out needed.

[Thurman#1]

the reason the Pats don't have stupid holdouts is that they don;t pinch pennies for players that deserve market value.

 

The Bills, on the other hand, have their COO directing a smear campaign against their best player, who is only the 3rd highest paid guy on his own OL.

 

The Bills promised to re-do his deal this year if he came in - and have now reneged on that promise.

 

 

 

Hunh? The Pats are the league's biggest penny-pinchers. It's one of the reasons they win.

[bowery4]

First off we could not get a 1st rounder for him because he really should not of gone at that point in the draft and stat wise he isn't one since we got him. Second he played better when we had better personnel around him I don't really think he has regreesed.

I do think that DT like Ngata is - at the very least - a beast, and yes it was stupid not to take him but that is the past and oh well.

 

He sure did. He forgot about Whitner's hit on Ocho Stinko last year too.

 

In all fairness to Donte, he has been moved around quite a bit during his tenure as a Buffalo Bill. Sometimes he plays the slot, sometimes he's at SS or even FS. Buffalo's struggles against the run in the past also hurt DW's chances of making plays in the secondary as well because he had to help stop the run constantly playing in the box.

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It was his forced fumble across the middle.

 

He also almost killed Chad Johnson, had what should have been the game-winning INT against the Patriots* in his first ever game (refs called him out of bounds), he had a monster sack in one of our first games this year, he has made a handful of great plays (when it really mattered) in the redzone, and he gave the fanbase a boner when he tackled whats-his-face in the endzone this year against Oakland .

This

 

I don't know what qualifies you to speak to Whitner's intangibles, but I do know this: He does, in fact, lack the statistics which indicate a "great" play. However, he plays in a defensive scheme which relies on quick, aggressive pressure at the snap of the ball, but seems to break down the longer a quarterback has to let the play develop. To be critical of ANY of our DB's is somewhat laughable considering how long they're expected to cover, given the complete lack of pass rush upfront.

 

Furthermore, if you ARE going to speak to a players' intangibles, KNOWING that Whitner is normally the one making the pre-snap reads/calls, one has to believe that in fact his intangibles ARE strong, since the defense has hardly lost us any games since he's been back there, despite the utter dysfunction of the DLine, the unit which is SUPPOSED to be the driving force of a Tampa-2 scheme.

This

 

IMO Whitner's solid overall but lacks the ball hawking skills you want in a FS. He should stay at SS and I'd like to see Youboty play FS. Youboty was really getting to the ball before he went down

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Is there any way we could trade 1billsfan to another fan board? You know, he's never really lived up to his name as 1billsfan...

 

LOL This

 

Teams don't give up first round picks for perennial Pro Bowlers anymore, much less a good safety who has a world of potential. The Bears got what, a 4th or 5th round pick for Thomas Jones-a Pro Bowler this year who is leading the AFC in rushing. If he was to be traded, probably a low 3rd or high 4th round pick is the most you will get, and if you did you would only be diminishing the talent on this team. Wilson and Youbouty are good role players, but will never amount to what Whitner does when it is all said and done.

This

 

You can always play the 'looking back at the draft and who came later we should have picked...' game, so there's no sense in arguing now, almost 2009 what we should have done in 2006. Safety was one of the highest positions of need, and they got themselves a leader. I honestly don't think that the front end pass rush of the other teams mentioned have been anywhere as remotely bad as ours has been, over THE LAST THREE YEARS. So, I'm really adamant about reserving judgment about ANY of our DB's until we can finally get a strong interior AND exterior of our DLine.

 

Like it or not, the scheme CANNOT function without a dominating DLine, and the fact that the defense HASN'T been a problem last year or this year in spite of injuries everywhere BUT the DLine (Schobel excluded) means the DB's deserve at least some credit. Would you agree?

 

EDIT: I would like to see Whitner playing FS opposite a much bigger SS.

This

 

If I had to cut one I'd be Whitner no doubt- and btw I'm not ripping Whitner or even the Poz I think they go out and play hard and that's all you can ask from a player, the people I'm ripping are the Bills organization for making stupid picks and In the case of the Poz Bills fans who gloss this kid when his production is average a best - I started to rant but stopped myself.

Totally disagree, Poz IS in his first year and has crap next to him and Donte has to be behind that. Both could do better with a pass rush and better schemes IMO.

 

Hunh? The Pats are the league's biggest penny-pinchers. It's one of the reasons they win.

no the coaching and line personnel is why they can save on DBs and LBs and they don't always pinch.

[bruceisloose78]

Although I'm not crazy about any of our safeties, whitner is truly the heart and soul of the d and getting better pass rushers will make all our safeties look better

[ironman357]

Although I'm not crazy about any of our safeties, whitner is truly the heart and soul of the d and getting better pass rushers will make all our safeties look better

 

 

I agree with you on that one. You cannot be as sucessful if the other teams QB has all day to throw the ball. Didnt Whitner lead the team in tackles last year? Right now I think we need to beef up the D-Line/O-Line and get a better TE

[spartacus]

Hunh? The Pats are the league's biggest penny-pinchers. It's one of the reasons they win.

 

No - you are wrong

 

The Pats pay market value to the players that deserve it.

 

what they don't do is overpay for positions and players that are easily replaceable.

 

The Pats would pay Peters - they would not have paid huge money to Kelsay

[basskik11]

...we get the same or better production from Simpson, Wilson or a second or third round draft pick?

 

The reason I ask this is because I'd like Alex Mack C AND a defensive mauler be it DE or LB drafted in the first round. If Jauron goes then all ties to Whitner are gone in my book. Whitner has never lived up to the hype but I think that there could be teams out there who might bite on getting him based on the continued hype that follows him for some unknown reason.

 

I want the Bills to keep Greer and have him along with McKelvin, McGee, Corner for a solid CB situation. The Bills need a center and a defensive playmaker much more than keeping the disappointing Whitner. Every time I see him, I think about how stupid it was not to draft Ngata.

 

I doubt a first pick.

[NavarreFL_Bills_Fan]

...we get the same or better production from Simpson, Wilson or a second or third round draft pick?

 

The reason I ask this is because I'd like Alex Mack C AND a defensive mauler be it DE or LB drafted in the first round. If Jauron goes then all ties to Whitner are gone in my book. Whitner has never lived up to the hype but I think that there could be teams out there who might bite on getting him based on the continued hype that follows him for some unknown reason.

 

I want the Bills to keep Greer and have him along with McKelvin, McGee, Corner for a solid CB situation. The Bills need a center and a defensive playmaker much more than keeping the disappointing Whitner. Every time I see him, I think about how stupid it was not to draft Ngata.

 

 

We could've gotten the same production from Jim Leonard (64 tackles, 1 sack, 1 INT this yr)...plus a guy with great football intincts....did we just let him go?

[Erik]

We could've gotten the same production from Jim Leonard (64 tackles, 1 sack, 1 INT this yr)...plus a guy with great football intincts....did we just let him go?

 

Exactly because the rest of our defense's talents are on par with the Ravens.

 

Do some of you people honestly think that every player in the NFL plays on an island and are automatically good or bad based on their statistics? You hoenstly don't think a Donte Whitner would play circles around a Jim Leonhard next to Ed Reed and behind Ray Lewis and co.?