Dr. Fong Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Ralph cries poor, yet for some reason, he refuses to sink any of the 78 million from toronto into the team. Ralph is the guy who sits there and collects his welfare check and then bitches about being poor instead of going out and getting a job. Exactly. The guy is using the Bills as a payday. Why should owners willing to forgo this payday be punished? Ralph is just a cheap owner. Always has been and always will be. I just wish he would have learned the lessons of the 90s and realized that you can make even more money by fielding a winner. He's in total Bidwell mode right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Exactly. The guy is using the Bills as a payday. Why should owners willing to forgo this payday be punished? Ralph is just a cheap owner. Always has been and always will be. I just wish he would have learned the lessons of the 90s and realized that you can make even more money by fielding a winner. He's in total Bidwell mode right now. Agree wholeheartedly here. If Buffalo made 35M in 07, with Toronto and the high season ticket sales this year will undoubtedly put that in the 42-45M territory. Bad teams have bad owners. And by bad, I'm talking about the refusal to change when things go bad. You have the Colts, Pats, Giants, and Steelers of the world who go to the playoffs nearly every season. And then you have the Lions, Bills, Bengals, Raiders, et al who never do. It's no coincidence that those four teams have arguably the worst four owners in the sport. If Ralph chooses to keep his front office and coaches similar to 08, I think it finally bites him in the behind. No way are season tickets sales going to be near 08 levels, given the economy and sad state of the franchise. I hope fans finally start voting with their checkbooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 A lot of you conveniently forget a basic fact--that you simply cannot charge in Buffalo more than a fraction of what you can charge in large market cities for tickets, merchandise, etc. Complain about Ralph being cheap all you want, but the fact is that there's no corporate base in Western NY to buy luxury boxes and the average fan here can pay about 30% of what an average fan can afford to pay in a place like NY or Boston. Those are facts, and the result is that Ralph starts with a large disadvantage vis-a-vis many other owners/teams in larger markets. As others have noted, when things like luxury boxes in other cities inflate the cap, welcome to the MLB-ization of the NFL--how'd that work out for baseball? Their ratings have plummeted precipitiously over the last 20 years to the point where they no longer have a real network contract (those of you old enough will certainly remember, for ex, NBC's Saturday national games and ABC's Monday Night Baseball from the '70s) and many folks who used to love to follow that game (like myself) could care less about it now. Unless you're a Yankee or Red Sox fan, you can forget having a consistently good team no matter how hard they try--watch what happens to the Devil Rays over the next couple of years as an example. This Yankee offseason is another example--didn't make the playoffs this past year, so let's buy every major FA out there. I suspect they've at least bought themselves an AL East crown, if not more, but time will tell. And before you all say, "well, people who try to buy championships usually fail", I say you may be right part of the time, but it certainly helps your competitiveness--for ex., who else thinks the Jests would have been a lot closer to another 4-12 without their free agent spending this past offseason than to the 10-6 they may end up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Friends Call Me Tebucky Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 It's crap. It's an utter cop-out, and lame ass excuse. The Bills can compete, they're just mismanaged. Indianapolis has done just fine over the years. So have Carolina, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, Jacksonville, and Kansas City (until the last couple of years). Green Bay has always been competitive since free agency and the salary cap came to be. New Orleans made the NFC Championship game a couple of years ago, didn't they? None of those are even in the top half of the NFL in terms of market size. Meanwhile, some teams in major markets suck- Houston can't get their sh-- together, Atlanta and Detroit have by and large been joke franchises this decade, Arizona is just now becoming decent, both Bay Area teams suck pretty consistently, and the Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in how long? It's management, not economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 24, 2008 Author Share Posted December 24, 2008 So, what you guys are telling me is that it's all bad management and not economics? Then why is it BUFFALO that's in danger of losing their football team and none of those other so called "small" market teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 There's a time proven way for smaller market teams to compete- basically it's building the team through the draft until you're at .500 or a little better then using FA or trades to try to get over the hump- you take a kick at the can for a couple years - then you blow it up and start again- you are not going to be playoff contenders every year but your going to be playoff contenders a couple times a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Friends Call Me Tebucky Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 So, what you guys are telling me is that it's all bad management and not economics? Then why is it BUFFALO that's in danger of losing their football team and none of those other so called "small" market teams? Because Ralph Wilson is 90. That's why. Economically, there are teams in worse shape than Buffalo- the Jaguars and Vikings to name a couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 25, 2008 Author Share Posted December 25, 2008 Because Ralph Wilson is 90. That's why. Economically, there are teams in worse shape than Buffalo- the Jaguars and Vikings to name a couple. RW will not be the first owner to die, nor will he be the last. Those teams didn't move either. Not a very good excuse for a team to leave, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 25, 2008 Author Share Posted December 25, 2008 Over the years I have heard various reports about the Bills making anywhere between 10 and 40 million bucks per year. Which one is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Friends Call Me Tebucky Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 RW will not be the first owner to die, nor will he be the last. Those teams didn't move either. Not a very good excuse for a team to leave, IMHO. Yeah, because most of them were inherited. The Wilson's don't have any interest in running the team. It's not very complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted December 25, 2008 Author Share Posted December 25, 2008 Yeah, because most of them were inherited. The Wilson's don't have any interest in running the team. It's not very complicated. ...and whomever purchases the team from RW's heirs to the throne will most likely not want to keep the team in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Over the years I have heard various reports about the Bills making anywhere between 10 and 40 million bucks per year. Which one is it? See Post #18 in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 The secret to being an effective small market is having the best scouts, along with Pro Personnel and Amateur Scouting directors. Plenty of smaller market teams make do with less. Check the Forbes report, and you'll see that Indy had less revenue in 08 than Buffalo. Ironically, their success (7 straight seasons with 10 or more wins) shows small market teams can win. Sure they built a stadium, but as some on this board have pointed out, it was a cumulative effort in that part of Indiana among counties. It helps they have the best modern era GM helping. This is correct. If your team has a budget for player costs, then you better invest in the best possbile people to help you made the best decsions on spending those limited dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Bills: I'm not sure if I care any more. I'm sick of Ralph's threat to move them. Knock yourself out dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Detroit, Oakland, New York (Jets), Atlanta, and Houston are huge markets, so they should be wildly successful under this theory -- all Super Bowl contenders. Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, San Diego, New Orleans, Indianapolis, and Pittsburgh are smaller markets and they should all be struggling under poverty and have no talent. The cries of poverty and that small markets imply an inability to field a competitive product just don't jive with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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