Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 OK... Won't pretend to be the football genius or Monday morning quarterback. But I have a simple observation to toss by the wall here for discussion sake... The Defense is good. 12th in the league by ESPN's ranking.... - DJ is a Defensive guy in my estimation based on what he did in Chi town, and the defense went from second worst in the league to better than average… - The line is one of the bigger lines in the NFL. - Bills have 2 good tough runners that can pound the rock inside Turk-ball seems to favor throwing first and running second, relying on your inexperienced QB's and undersized receivers that don't seem to get separation very well. Why? I long for the offense where they run on first and second down, throw on third. With this line and these backs, this kind of basic football, running to set up the pass (giant football) seems to make more sense. Even K gun thrived off TT's running. Remember when there were many consecutive seasons where you could bank on it, if Thurman rushed for 100, the bills had a W. If they could establish the run, it set up the team for success... now it seems like they dig a hole, and then resort to the run... can that be? I noted in at least two games this year after getting burned by early QB turn-overs, they buckled down and got more conservative and actually moved the ball far better... Am I off here??
kota Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 You are not wrong. I see more complaints about the defense then i do the offense on this board. Lack of pass rush, etc.... If the offense could stay on the field and score some points we would be in the playoffs right now.
Lori Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 It depends. There were long stretches earlier in the year where that biggest-in-the-league line wasn't opening holes, and Lynch and Jackson had to fight their way back to the line of scrimmage more often than not. I used to B word about Mularkey letting his OCs throw all the time on 3rd-and-short ... until I checked the run stats for that down/distance and saw the miserable conversion rate. Now, I'd agree that they should be a good smash-mouth, run-the-ball-down-your-throat team, and I've done my share of bitching about Beef Moe not touching the ball often enough. If those carries are only getting two yards a crack, though, I can understand Schonert wanting to try something else (even if I might not always agree).
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Am I off here?? No, you're on point. But in Turk's defense, he was trying to run a more smash mouth style earlier in the season, but run-run-pass was not working at the time. Lynch couldn't even get to 4 yards a carry. So he got away from that, opened things up a tad, and we did have some success. But since the San Diego game, the quarterback play (regardless of who its been) has been simply dreadful. On the other hand, the running game has slowly come together, to the point where, last week, we were able to run up and down the field on Kris Jenkins and the Jets, who had previously done a good job on Lynch. I think its time to re-committ to the running game because thats what we're doing well now, and Turk has just been a bit late to react to that. But going by his playcalling the first few weeks of the year, I do think thats what he wants to do long-term. The team just wasn't allowing him to call games like that for 60 minutes at the time. EDIT: Lori beat me to it.
Mickey Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 OK... Won't pretend to be the football genius or Monday morning quarterback. But I have a simple observation to toss by the wall here for discussion sake... The Defense is good. 12th in the league by ESPN's ranking.... - DJ is a Defensive guy in my estimation based on what he did in Chi town, and the defense went from second worst in the league to better than average… - The line is one of the bigger lines in the NFL. - Bills have 2 good tough runners that can pound the rock inside Turk-ball seems to favor throwing first and running second, relying on your inexperienced QB's and undersized receivers that don't seem to get separation very well. Why? I long for the offense where they run on first and second down, throw on third. With this line and these backs, this kind of basic football, running to set up the pass (giant football) seems to make more sense. Even K gun thrived off TT's running. Remember when there were many consecutive seasons where you could bank on it, if Thurman rushed for 100, the bills had a W. If they could establish the run, it set up the team for success... now it seems like they dig a hole, and then resort to the run... can that be? I noted in at least two games this year after getting burned by early QB turn-overs, they buckled down and got more conservative and actually moved the ball far better... Am I off here?? My impression is that we run, predictably on first, in to the teeth of stacked defenses with predictably poor results. Now I wish we had done just that last Sunday on that miserable play but that was very much an exception. That is what amazed me. The guy never tries to surprise anyone until the one time when he shouldn't have. And the smash mouth stuff I think is one of those cliches that people are drawn to with far less application to the modern game than it did in the past. On top of that we don't have the O-line or the dominating defense that makes that kind of plodding offense viable. Rams and Warner. The Colts and Manning. Brady and the Pats, etc. Good teams can throw and run. I am not sure any team lately, not even the Giants, who has won a championship has been a classic "smash mouth" team such as, for example, the Dilfer era Ravens. There is no argument that we have real offensive problems but I would not agree that our "defense is good" simply because of their statistical ranking. We have had a very easy schedule this year but when we have played a top offense, we have given up plenty of points and tons of yardage. Take the game against the Cards, no defense that performed that badly could be called "good". Maybe if it was a one game anomaly but it wasn't. Yeah, its sad. Our defense looks "good" only in comparison to our offense which is awful. I actually think though that fixing our offense will be a lot easier than the defense. A more experienced Edwards, a better OC and a solid center would, I think, result in a dramatic improvement. I think we have problems with Ko Simpson. I think Poz was disappointing this year. We need to find a replacement for Crowel. Schobel could be done as a real threat. Kelsay and Denney are useless. Whitner was pretty disappointing at times as well. The bright spot I think is McKelvin. The speed he has is unbeleivable. If he figures out how to cover in the NFL and I think he is getting there, watch out.
Dan Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 There are, perhaps, a multitude of reasons why our offense struggled mightily at times this season. However, let me just offer 2: the situational awareness/play calling issue and the offensive line. I think the first issue can be largely explained by a rookie OC. All too often, the offense had no rhythm. It almost seemed as though the plays were being called out of a hat. We'd run on 3 and 10 and pass on 3rd and 1. Sometimes it works, but many times it doesn't. The biggest problem with this type of offense is that it leads to inconsistent play and your team lacks any identity. Additionally, it leaves us with no "go to" plays. Add in a healthy dose of predictability, in player formations and tendencies, and you get an offense that's very easily defended. The second issue hasn't gotten nearly enough talk, IMO. We had several injuries on the Oline and switched our Center, mid season. Regardless of how bad Fowler may be, how often does a line change centers, mid season, and not have problems? Is it coincidental that for the first 4 games the offense looked pretty good. Then we had a month or so of injuries and changing the center that coincided with horrendous QB and bad RB play. Recently, the line has stabilized and our offense is looking much better - despite the subpar JP play. Of course, I still think the WRs need work. But, I'm not so sure we need new receivers as much as we need to use them better. A TE would be nice. I still have no idea what the FB does other than make us play with 10 guys on the field. So, there are other issues, as well. But I argue the running game suffered most from the first 2 issues presented.
Fewell733 Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 lately I've been wondering if our offense is too young to expect them to be consistently good
Tcali Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 OK... Won't pretend to be the football genius or Monday morning quarterback. But I have a simple observation to toss by the wall here for discussion sake... The Defense is good. 12th in the league by ESPN's ranking.... - DJ is a Defensive guy in my estimation based on what he did in Chi town, and the defense went from second worst in the league to better than average… - The line is one of the bigger lines in the NFL. - Bills have 2 good tough runners that can pound the rock inside Turk-ball seems to favor throwing first and running second, relying on your inexperienced QB's and undersized receivers that don't seem to get separation very well. Why? I long for the offense where they run on first and second down, throw on third. With this line and these backs, this kind of basic football, running to set up the pass (giant football) seems to make more sense. Even K gun thrived off TT's running. Remember when there were many consecutive seasons where you could bank on it, if Thurman rushed for 100, the bills had a W. If they could establish the run, it set up the team for success... now it seems like they dig a hole, and then resort to the run... can that be? I noted in at least two games this year after getting burned by early QB turn-overs, they buckled down and got more conservative and actually moved the ball far better... Am I off here?? Our D is average. Our O is below average. Voila--thats our 6-8 Buffalo Bills.
Adam Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 While the defense is better than the offense, I would not call it good. The line is terrible, which hurts everything behind it. It is well coached, not good.
300yrds Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 OK... Won't pretend to be the football genius or Monday morning quarterback. But I have a simple observation to toss by the wall here for discussion sake... The Defense is good. 12th in the league by ESPN's ranking.... - DJ is a Defensive guy in my estimation based on what he did in Chi town, and the defense went from second worst in the league to better than average… - The line is one of the bigger lines in the NFL. - Bills have 2 good tough runners that can pound the rock inside Turk-ball seems to favor throwing first and running second, relying on your inexperienced QB's and undersized receivers that don't seem to get separation very well. Why? I long for the offense where they run on first and second down, throw on third. With this line and these backs, this kind of basic football, running to set up the pass (giant football) seems to make more sense. Even K gun thrived off TT's running. Remember when there were many consecutive seasons where you could bank on it, if Thurman rushed for 100, the bills had a W. If they could establish the run, it set up the team for success... now it seems like they dig a hole, and then resort to the run... can that be? I noted in at least two games this year after getting burned by early QB turn-overs, they buckled down and got more conservative and actually moved the ball far better... Am I off here?? I agree in concept, but lets stay away from run, run, pass. Agreed establishing a better run game is a MUST.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 OK... Won't pretend to be the football genius or Monday morning quarterback. But I have a simple observation to toss by the wall here for discussion sake... The Defense is good. 12th in the league by ESPN's ranking.... - DJ is a Defensive guy in my estimation based on what he did in Chi town, and the defense went from second worst in the league to better than average… - The line is one of the bigger lines in the NFL. - Bills have 2 good tough runners that can pound the rock inside Turk-ball seems to favor throwing first and running second, relying on your inexperienced QB's and undersized receivers that don't seem to get separation very well. Why? I long for the offense where they run on first and second down, throw on third. With this line and these backs, this kind of basic football, running to set up the pass (giant football) seems to make more sense. Even K gun thrived off TT's running. Remember when there were many consecutive seasons where you could bank on it, if Thurman rushed for 100, the bills had a W. If they could establish the run, it set up the team for success... now it seems like they dig a hole, and then resort to the run... can that be? I noted in at least two games this year after getting burned by early QB turn-overs, they buckled down and got more conservative and actually moved the ball far better... Am I off here?? I agree the offense needs to be improved. Their identity should be smashmouth football. Make no mistake about it. This defense is not "good". It's a product of playing some pretty poor teams along the way. Guranteed if we played a brady led patriots the colts, or any offense worth a damn they would seriously be exposed. A minor blessing to the failure of this season may be everyones awakening to just how bad the front 7 of this defense is. The alarming lack of depth, or any kind of playmaker. Look at legit top tier defenses. The Ravens,Steelers,Titans,Giants,Panthers,Vikings, Cowboys to an extent lately, The Eagles. Our defense may have been good enough with a better offensive approach to reach the postseason. However they are not on the level of the teams that typically win in the post season. They would be exposed for the sieves they truly are.
Poeticlaw Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 OK... Won't pretend to be the football genius or Monday morning quarterback. But I have a simple observation to toss by the wall here for discussion sake... The Defense is good. 12th in the league by ESPN's ranking.... - DJ is a Defensive guy in my estimation based on what he did in Chi town, and the defense went from second worst in the league to better than average… - The line is one of the bigger lines in the NFL. - Bills have 2 good tough runners that can pound the rock inside Turk-ball seems to favor throwing first and running second, relying on your inexperienced QB's and undersized receivers that don't seem to get separation very well. Why? I long for the offense where they run on first and second down, throw on third. With this line and these backs, this kind of basic football, running to set up the pass (giant football) seems to make more sense. Even K gun thrived off TT's running. Remember when there were many consecutive seasons where you could bank on it, if Thurman rushed for 100, the bills had a W. If they could establish the run, it set up the team for success... now it seems like they dig a hole, and then resort to the run... can that be? I noted in at least two games this year after getting burned by early QB turn-overs, they buckled down and got more conservative and actually moved the ball far better... Am I off here?? This is when the rankings are decieving the defense is not that good they have allowed too many 7-0 starts and the opposing offesenses to have too many long drives and given up too many big plays, they also have no pressur on the Qb. The defense needs some major improving and should be the primary focuse this offseason outside of Center. I think the offense is only a WR/TE/and Center away form being good not great add a better QB and I see we could be great. However the main problem with this team and many on here as well as announcer of games has stated the same thing it lacks IDENITY they dont know if they want to be a running team a passing team a conservative team an aggressive team a deep ball team a dink and dunk team they llack any type of bread and butter becuase they dont know who they are or what they do best and again I will keep repeating myself none of this will improve until JAURON IS GONE!!!!!!
colin Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 bang on. the big problem is the O. they got short fields from our outstanding special teams, i admit our d does need to create way more turnovers for them, but our O just doesn't do well in the redzone and can't manufacture long drives -- bad combo. i think we cannot be a good top 10 kick ass o until we have at least one more play maker. reed and those guys are good players, but we need another guy to compliment evans and lynch who can just rip open a big play. i personally want us to get winslow jr, but there are prolly a few guys out there who can do it. in terms of our playcalling and such now, i don't think it is as simple as being more or less conservative. for some reason, we throw great against 4-3 ds and run badly. against 34 d's we run well (including running all over the jests who are ranked top 4 on the run) and pass badly. we really need to be able to get more consistency overall against any kind of d, but perhaps a football phd would be able to tell me what in our scheme/talent is hurting us in these matchups, but allowing us the success we have had. i still think we can add the players to each side of the ball to be a home playoff team next year.
JAMIEBUF12 Posted December 20, 2008 Posted December 20, 2008 OK... Won't pretend to be the football genius or Monday morning quarterback. But I have a simple observation to toss by the wall here for discussion sake... The Defense is good. 12th in the league by ESPN's ranking.... - DJ is a Defensive guy in my estimation based on what he did in Chi town, and the defense went from second worst in the league to better than average… - The line is one of the bigger lines in the NFL. - Bills have 2 good tough runners that can pound the rock inside Turk-ball seems to favor throwing first and running second, relying on your inexperienced QB's and undersized receivers that don't seem to get separation very well. Why? I long for the offense where they run on first and second down, throw on third. With this line and these backs, this kind of basic football, running to set up the pass (giant football) seems to make more sense. Even K gun thrived off TT's running. Remember when there were many consecutive seasons where you could bank on it, if Thurman rushed for 100, the bills had a W. If they could establish the run, it set up the team for success... now it seems like they dig a hole, and then resort to the run... can that be? I noted in at least two games this year after getting burned by early QB turn-overs, they buckled down and got more conservative and actually moved the ball far better... Am I off here?? defense is ranked 11th bfd! the bills give up a opening drive touchdown every game.in the 1st jets and dolphins games the bills defense was on the field for 9 minute drives.with no aaron schoebel since week 5 i think.you would think that fewell would change his scheme or try to add some wrinkles to get pressure on the quarterback.nope he dosn't.yes the offense has been putrid,but i blame jauron for that.4 games straight of passing 2 times on the 4 yard game(niner game)to a bad intrerception inside the 10 yard line(miami)to a 2nd and 5 with 2.05 to go and losman getting sacked to end a game.when you have marshawn lynch averging 8.5 ypc(niner game)and then i think 6.5(jets)you run the ball.even if turk called those goofy plays ,jauron let him............a fish rots at the headso it goes all the way to ralph,the general manager and jauron...the bills need to clean house and bring in a no nonsense gm that changes the whole front office right down to the people that answer the phones!...go bills someday!
NicholasCal1 Posted December 20, 2008 Posted December 20, 2008 the offense plays soft. they the killer edge
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