VABills Posted December 19, 2008 Author Posted December 19, 2008 Which would be replaced by American jobs in the alternative fuel industry. But what about those people who were only trained in the Oil industry? Of course those green company employees will all be union workers and democrats so that's better right?
Adam Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Which would be replaced by American jobs in the alternative fuel industry. Exactly- and we can keep the billions of dollars going overseas for oil! WE should have looked into producing our own energy a long time ago! Thanks Bushes and Clintons!
Kingfish Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Of course those green company employees will all be union workers and democrats so that's better right? There's no union workers in the oil industry? What about the USW?
PastaJoe Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 And how many jobs are their drilling for oil/gas? Processing, shipping, refining, building pieplines, enegineers, chemists who find other things to do with oil by products. I bet it's at least at 3 million people. If they end up facing a similar situation as the car industry, then I have no problem offering them a similar loan program so they can reorganize and retool. And if the car or oil industry make record profits, then they should pay a windfall tax.
erynthered Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 If they end up facing a similar situation as the car industry, then I have no problem offering them a similar loan program so they can reorganize and retool. And if the car or oil industry make record profits, then they should pay a windfall tax. See if I got this right. Lend them our money then tax them with the windfall profits tax that will end up being paid for by the consumer. Us. Got it.
John Adams Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 See if I got this right. Lend them our money then tax them with the windfall profits tax that will end up being paid for by the consumer. Us. Got it. PJ's theory is that if you make money, you don't get to keep it and if you don't make money, the government will bail you out. How's that for capitalism? Can't you just hear innovation screeching to a halt?
Adam Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 See if I got this right. Lend them our money then tax them with the windfall profits tax that will end up being paid for by the consumer. Us. Got it. Unless demand stimulates the economy, there will be no windfall to tax.....I think.....
RkFast Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 PJ's theory is that if you make money, you don't get to keep it and if you don't make money, the government will bail you out. How's that for capitalism? Can't you just hear innovation screeching to a halt? JA...unless the price of oil about doubles, innovation HAS "screeched to a halt".
TheMadCap Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 PJ's theory is that if you make money, you don't get to keep it and if you don't make money, the government will bail you out. How's that for capitalism? Can't you just hear innovation screeching to a halt? What do you expect from a guy who has an avatar of Rene Belloq?
John Adams Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 JA...unless the price of oil about doubles, innovation HAS "screeched to a halt". Nein. In times of recession, innovation often flourishes. My point is that if you take away the rewards inherent when businesses take risks (by taxing the businesses when they make money), you take away the incentive for businesses to take risks, innovate, and grow. What's the point?
DC Tom Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 If they end up facing a similar situation as the car industry, then I have no problem offering them a similar loan program so they can reorganize and retool. And if the car or oil industry make record profits, then they should pay a windfall tax. Unreal. When a company makes too much money, they should be penalized for it. But when they don't make enough, they should be given a handout even if they were too stupid to sock away for a rainy day the record earnings two years previous. Where do you get this crap?
DC Tom Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Unless demand stimulates the economy, there will be no windfall to tax.....I think..... As long as "windfall" is defined as "we think you make too much money, and we want some of it", there will ALWAYS be a windfall tax.
VABills Posted December 19, 2008 Author Posted December 19, 2008 Unreal. When a company makes too much money, they should be penalized for it. But when they don't make enough, they should be given a handout even if they were too stupid to sock away for a rainy day the record earnings two years previous. Where do you get this crap? Das Capital
RkFast Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Nein. In times of recession, innovation often flourishes. My point is that if you take away the rewards inherent when businesses take risks (by taxing the businesses when they make money), you take away the incentive for businesses to take risks, innovate, and grow. What's the point? Im hearing you......Im just saying that right now the price of oil/bbl is making investment in alternative fuels a big money loser. Read somewhere that oil needs to be somewhere arounf 50/bbl before development of alternative fuels by the energy compainies becomes a worthwhile endeavor.
PastaJoe Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Unreal. When a company makes too much money, they should be penalized for it. But when they don't make enough, they should be given a handout even if they were too stupid to sock away for a rainy day the record earnings two years previous. Where do you get this crap? Not handouts, bridge LOANS to restructure and retool. Nobody is advocating handouts. This distortion of the facts by the anti-loan crowd is simplistic. I agree that companies should reinvest record profits into improving their products and services, and not just handing it out as dividends and buying back stock like the oil companies did, or face a windfall tax, but if their fortunes turn and they are threatened with going out of business, then I support giving them LOANS if they have a business plan that shows how it will allow them to recover.
John Adams Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Im hearing you......Im just saying that right now the price of oil/bbl is making investment in alternative fuels a big money loser. Read somewhere that oil needs to be somewhere arounf 50/bbl before development of alternative fuels by the energy compainies becomes a worthwhile endeavor. Understood. I was actually talking about innovation being stifled across a broader spectrum because of things like windfall profit taxation.
PastaJoe Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Understood. I was actually talking about innovation being stifled across a broader spectrum because of things like windfall profit taxation. Innovation wouldn't be stifled if they reinvested some of the money in new innovations instead pocketing record profits. Innovation is stifled by greed.
erynthered Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Not handouts, bridge LOANS to restructure and retool. Nobody is advocating handouts. This distortion of the facts by the anti-loan crowd is simplistic. I agree that companies should reinvest record profits into improving their products and services, and not just handing it out as dividends and buying back stock like the oil companies did, or face a windfall tax, but if their fortunes turn and they are threatened with going out of business, then I support giving them LOANS if they have a business plan that shows how it will allow them to recover. Whats a reasonable profit on their investment without a windfall profit tax? They had an 8% return I believe last year. MC-D's had 13%. What about them Joe? You logic borderlines on complete stupidity, Joe. What about Al Gore's profits on Carbon credits? Where does it stop? You want to arbitrarily tax only companies you don't like a windfall profit tax? What about company's that run a 15 to 20 % profit margin? Small businesses that are the cornerstone of America should be penalized a windfall profit tax?
Adam Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 As long as "windfall" is defined as "we think you make too much money, and we want some of it", there will ALWAYS be a windfall tax. Can I assess a windfall tax? I could use the extra $$$$
finknottle Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 If oil companies become insolvent due to plentiful alternative fuels why would we even need oil companies? In addition to those VA points out work in exploration and refining, what about all the gas stations that litter the landscape? There is at least another million people on the retail side. In fact, I think it's a fair bet that there are more jobs in oil/gas than in the auto business.
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