Franken about to take lead...

[The Dean]

And Tim Meadows was on that show for 10+ years and Darryl Hammond has probably been around that long as well. A long tenure actually can imply hitting a journeyman status, where a person was good enough to get in, but not move on. (And part of being good enough to get in sometimes is going to the right school, etc. My opinion of Franken is that he was at the right Ivy League school at the right time and kissed the right butt to get in. The guy NEVER made it on his own, provided Governer Ventura's subjects don't throw this one to him.)

 

As I wrote earlier, please tell me what he's done that was funny. I didn't find his Franken and Davis skits funny (although some of Davis' lines were funny; if Al wrote them, I'll give him credit for that), nor did I find his WU commentary funny. Stuart Smiley was PAINFULLY unfunny. Al, as a typical politician, has always appeared to be about himself. Considering he has never DONE anything tangible (other than self promote), I truly hope he does not end up in the "exclusive club". If he HAS done something other than self-promote under the radar, please let me know. I've seen no evidence of it.

 

 

Well, as SNL doesn't list credits for individual sketches, it's hard to know what sketches Franken wrote, co-wrote or added to (as a writer). But, SNL doesn't simply keep writers around that long, if they, in their estimation, they don't contribute to the "funny" of the show. While it is possible that he stayed with the show that long because of who he knew, it simply isn't the most likely explanation. You are basing your "guess" on the fact that you don't like Franken. I would guess that you are probably wrong, based on what I know about how shows operate. You aren't necessarily wrong, but I think you probably are, in this case.

 

Your choice of Hammond and Meadows were horrible for your case, too. Hammond, in particular, is an excellent comic sketch actor. Meadows wasn't bad (but not a star), either. Neither are comedians...they are comic actors, and excel at the sketch form (and can do it live). Hammond has a particular set of skills and looks that not many people can pull off. Neither are Phil Hartman, but they are solid SNL cast members. But, remember, the actors are not the writers (in most cases).

 

Judging a writer's comedic writing skills by his performances is not a good strategy, IMO. Most writers (even very good ones) can't be funny performing ANYTHING. So, to say Franken wasn't likely to be funny writer because you didn't find the sketches he performed in to be funny is flawed, IMO. It is more likely that the producers of SNL (and the network execs that over see the show) found Franken to be a valuable asset as a writer, or he wouldn't have lasted so long with the program.

 

From what little I have read of his books, they don't do much for me. But, five of his books have become NY Times bestsellers. So, apparently there are people who find his books funny, too.

[Taro T]

Exactly, I'm just saying calling out Franken for being unfunny when he worked in an era that has already been called the best years of SNL is ridiculous.

 

BTW, I love Conan O'Brien's show. His writers do well and his monologues are pretty good. Triumph is the best thing on there and that makes the show worth watching alone.

 

Taro T. you seem to be under the impression that one writer does a sketch and that's it. A writer comes up with an idea and then many of them work on it together. Saying 5% is his is ridiculous. Not every writer gets his/her stuff in every week. The best ideas are what get in. So one writer may be getting 25% or more into the show one week and none the next. As Deano pointed out Franken worked there for 15 years and I'm sure that's not because he sucked.

 

My point is that your political feelings about him are entering into every facet of his work. Just admit he probably made you laugh once in a while and leave it at that. What the hell does his comedy have to with his politics?

 

I'll admit Rush Limbaugh has given me a chuckle or two.

Look dildo (Steely Dan, whatever),

 

I did not say that one writer works on a sketch and that is it. Had you ever paid attention to the reruns of the old SNL, you would realize that Franken and Davis were a writing team. And I am certain that they worked w/ other members of the crew as well.

 

Saying that 5% of the writing is his, on a whole, is probably very accurate. You have heard of this new concept called an "average", correct? The way an average works is, when you have, say 24 shows w/ 20 writers submitting material to the show w/ 16 skits per show, on average each writer supplies ~20 skits per season. Considering Al was on the screen at least 10 times / season (and probably more like 20) it is safe to assume that he supplied a lot of his own material. And the vast majority of that material wasn't funny. Again, if you disagree, please point out what WAS funny. The fact that you continue to bash me for saying his skits were unfunny w/out providing any evidence that anything WAS funny is telling as I have pointed out specific instances that were not funny.

 

The reason his comedy is relevant to his politics is that he is basing his entire political career off of his comedy/ media career. His Air America is bankrupt. I doubt he was basing his campaign on that leg. The only other things he has is his TV/movie writing/acting and his books. Please explain to me what his comedy DOESN'T have to do w/ his politics? If his entire background is his comedy, isn't that what he's bringing to the table as a Senator? What else does he bring?

 

 

So writing best selling political commentary books isn't doing anything? Having a radio show isn't doing anything? You're criticizing for the sake of criticizing.

How is any of that, especially considering the radio show went under, anything but self-promoting?

[Taro T]

Well, as SNL doesn't list credits for individual sketches, it's hard to know what sketches Franken wrote, co-wrote or added to (as a writer). But, SNL doesn't simply keep writers around that long, if they, in their estimation, they don't contribute to the "funny" of the show. While it is possible that he stayed with the show that long because of who he knew, it simply isn't the most likely explanation. You are basing your "guess" on the fact that you don't like Franken. I would guess that you are probably wrong, based on what I know about how shows operate. You aren't necessarily wrong, but I think you probably are, in this case.

 

Your choice of Hammond and Meadows were horrible for your case, too. Hammond, in particular, is an excellent comic sketch actor. Meadows wasn't bad (but not a star), either. Neither are comedians...they are comic actors, and excel at the sketch form (and can do it live). Hammond has a particular set of skills and looks that not many people can pull off. Neither are Phil Hartman, but they are solid SNL cast members. But, remember, the actors are not the writers (in most cases).

 

Judging a writer's comedic writing skills by his performances is not a good strategy, IMO. Most writers (even very good ones) can't be funny performing ANYTHING. So, to say Franken wasn't likely to be funny writer because you didn't find the sketches he performed in to be funny is flawed, IMO. It is more likely that the producers of SNL (and the network execs that over see the show) found Franken to be a valuable asset as a writer, or he wouldn't have lasted so long with the program.

 

From what little I have read of his books, they don't do much for me. But, five of his books have become NY Times bestsellers. So, apparently there are people who find his books funny, too.

We may have different definitions of "journeymen" but both Meadows and Hammond strike me as being journeymen. (It isn't a bust on either, as I find both very funny within the SNL format; but I'd be very surprised to see either headlining a (good) movie or broadway show in the future.)

 

My evaluation of Franken's writing talents may be flawed. Please provide me a better evaluation metric for his talent/ lack thereof. All I know is, the skits he ends up in; the movie roles I've seen him in, and the radio talk he's spoken have been poor IMHO. I've asked the steel dildo to provide the same, but my guess is he will come back w/ a retort that is far less eloquent and informative than your response will be. (Basically, I think you may actually give me something to reevaluate my opinion; whether you can or can't, I won't be wasting my time reading your response.)

 

I'm not certain how relevant his books being best sellers is. Jackie Collins and Tom Clancy have had at least twice that many. That doesn't mean that Collins books are good, or that Clancy's are bad (or vice versa depending on perspective), it only means they caught on w/ the right PR people to promote what their books were about. Couldn't Franken's Ivy League ties and ability to shamelessly selfpromote have had something to do w/ his book sales?

[Steely Dan]

Look dildo (Steely Dan, whatever),

 

I did not say that one writer works on a sketch and that is it. Had you ever paid attention to the reruns of the old SNL, you would realize that Franken and Davis were a writing team. And I am certain that they worked w/ other members of the crew as well.

 

Saying that 5% of the writing is his, on a whole, is probably very accurate. You have heard of this new concept called an "average", correct? The way an average works is, when you have, say 24 shows w/ 20 writers submitting material to the show w/ 16 skits per show, on average each writer supplies ~20 skits per season. Considering Al was on the screen at least 10 times / season (and probably more like 20) it is safe to assume that he supplied a lot of his own material. And the vast majority of that material wasn't funny. Again, if you disagree, please point out what WAS funny. The fact that you continue to bash me for saying his skits were unfunny w/out providing any evidence that anything WAS funny is telling as I have pointed out specific instances that were not funny.

 

You are aware averages are not exact right? I assure you that the percentage of skits written by the writers is not 5% per writer per season. Some writers come up with a lot of ideas for skits and others add lines and tweaks to the skit. Rethink your average idea. It's greatly flawed.

 

What you and I find funny doesn't matter. I find Franken funny and you don't. 'Nuff said.

 

The reason his comedy is relevant to his politics is that he is basing his entire political career off of his comedy/ media career. His Air America is bankrupt. I doubt he was basing his campaign on that leg. The only other things he has is his TV/movie writing/acting and his books. Please explain to me what his comedy DOESN'T have to do w/ his politics? If his entire background is his comedy, isn't that what he's bringing to the table as a Senator? What else does he bring?

 

 

How is any of that, especially considering the radio show went under, anything but self-promoting?

 

Ok, first off Air America is not bankrupt.

 

Do your research.

 

If writing books is self promoting then anyone who's written a non fiction or fiction book is a self promoter to you I guess.

[Taro T]

You are aware averages are not exact right? I assure you that the percentage of skits written by the writers is not 5% per writer per season. Some writers come up with a lot of ideas for skits and others add lines and tweaks to the skit. Rethink your average idea. It's greatly flawed.

 

What you and I find funny doesn't matter. I find Franken funny and you don't. 'Nuff said.

 

 

 

Ok, first off Air America is not bankrupt.

 

Do your research.

 

If writing books is self promoting then anyone who's written a non fiction or fiction book is a self promoter to you I guess.

The exact percentage of skits written by Franken is immaterial. The point, which you so deftly missed once again, was that it is doubtful that Franken is responsible for many of the good skits that don't include him; as the vast majority of skits he was in were not funny.

 

But perhaps you can retell me how the writers do collaborate w/ each other once again; which is a pointless point as we both agree that they work together. Thus my statement earlier "And I am certain that they worked w/ other members of the crew as well."

 

 

Perhaps you should do your research. They filed for bankruptcy back in '06 and were bought in '07. So HIS Air America WAS bankrupt. It's somebody elses now.

 

And, it's not surprising that you'd try to extrapolate your final comment out of my original comments.

[/dev/null]

Ok, first off Air America is not bankrupt.

 

Technically neither are the Big 3 Automakers

[The Dean]

I'm not certain how relevant his books being best sellers is. Jackie Collins and Tom Clancy have had at least twice that many. That doesn't mean that Collins books are good, or that Clancy's are bad (or vice versa depending on perspective), it only means they caught on w/ the right PR people to promote what their books were about. Couldn't Franken's Ivy League ties and ability to shamelessly selfpromote have had something to do w/ his book sales?

 

 

Well, I certainly agree that popularity doesn't equal quality.

[Steely Dan]

The exact percentage of skits written by Franken is immaterial. The point, which you so deftly missed once again, was that it is doubtful that Franken is responsible for many of the good skits that don't include him; as the vast majority of skits he was in were not funny.

 

But perhaps you can retell me how the writers do collaborate w/ each other once again; which is a pointless point as we both agree that they work together. Thus my statement earlier "And I am certain that they worked w/ other members of the crew as well."

 

Perhaps you should do your research. They filed for bankruptcy back in '06 and were bought in '07. So HIS Air America WAS bankrupt. It's somebody elses now.

 

And, it's not surprising that you'd try to extrapolate your final comment out of my original comments.

 

I was responding to your 5% comment. Stick to the facts of what you posted rather than trying to change them now. Also you're changing the facts of your Air America comments.

 

In that post you say "HIS" Air America "IS" bankrupt. Let's repeat the word "IS" for you and compare it to the word "Was" which you now claim you said. Ruminate on it and see if you can understand it. Second it wasn't "HIS" Air America. I don't know how you get that idea. He was on the air for a long time after the filing for bankruptcy was done but somehow you feel he was the owner of the radio shows.

 

BTW, it was in bankruptcy because the founder was ripping them off. Not for poor ratings.

[JimBob2232]

Yeah, The Correct (but probably not legal) thing to do here is a re-vote. With the independent candidate drawing 15% of the vote, it is impossible to determine which candidate is favored by the most voters. There should be a way to determine a clear winner. This is why I like Louisiana's (and Georgias) 50% rule. If no candidate gets 50%, there is a runoff between the top 2 candidates.

 

Should be the same in presidential elections as well.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Yeah, The Correct (but probably not legal) thing to do here is a re-vote. With the independent candidate drawing 15% of the vote, it is impossible to determine which candidate is favored by the most voters. There should be a way to determine a clear winner. This is why I like Louisiana's (and Georgias) 50% rule. If no candidate gets 50%, there is a runoff between the top 2 candidates.

 

Should be the same in presidential elections as well.

Ya because then Clinton would never have been president. [thanks again, Ross Perot]

[Taro T]

I was responding to your 5% comment. Stick to the facts of what you posted rather than trying to change them now. Also you're changing the facts of your Air America comments.

 

In that post you say "HIS" Air America "IS" bankrupt. Let's repeat the word "IS" for you and compare it to the word "Was" which you now claim you said. Ruminate on it and see if you can understand it. Second it wasn't "HIS" Air America. I don't know how you get that idea. He was on the air for a long time after the filing for bankruptcy was done but somehow you feel he was the owner of the radio shows.

 

BTW, it was in bankruptcy because the founder was ripping them off. Not for poor ratings.

And your continuing to harp on an immaterial triviality is not even remotely surprising. Whether Franken was responsible for 5% or 10% or 1% of SNL does not change the fact that his bits were not funny and it isn't much of a reach to assume that what he wrote (that wasn't explicitly credited to him) wasn't funny either.

 

Yes, Air America having come out of bankruptcy was news to me. It doesn't change the fact that it was in bankruptcy. I called it his Air America because he was the face of that organization and was involved in its formation.

 

You find Franken funny, but are unwilling to provide any examples of something he's done that is funny. That's fine, and again, not terribly unexpected.

 

It also is not nearly as entertaining as the Sabres' game, so I am probably done w/ this discussion. Spater.

[Kingfish]

And your continuing to harp on an immaterial triviality is not even remotely surprising. Whether Franken was responsible for 5% or 10% or 1% of SNL does not change the fact that his bits were not funny and it isn't much of a reach to assume that what he wrote (that wasn't explicitly credited to him) wasn't funny either.

 

That's not a fact, that's an opinion.

[Adam]

Well, I certainly agree that popularity doesn't equal quality.

Not many people were too high on Reagan's acting career, but look how he turned out- not to say that Frankin will follow suit. Never saw any of his movies, but I thought he did well for himself in the Genesis video lol

[Steely Dan]

And your continuing to harp on an immaterial triviality is not even remotely surprising. Whether Franken was responsible for 5% or 10% or 1% of SNL does not change the fact that his bits were not funny and it isn't much of a reach to assume that what he wrote (that wasn't explicitly credited to him) wasn't funny either.

 

Yes, Air America having come out of bankruptcy was news to me. It doesn't change the fact that it was in bankruptcy. I called it his Air America because he was the face of that organization and was involved in its formation.

 

You find Franken funny, but are unwilling to provide any examples of something he's done that is funny. That's fine, and again, not terribly unexpected.

 

It also is not nearly as entertaining as the Sabres' game, so I am probably done w/ this discussion. Spater.

 

Yeah, it would be so important to have a conversation like this

 

Me: I think X and Y and Z are funny.

You: Oh God you really think those are funny?! No wonder you're a liberal tard.

 

 

Explain to me why what I find funny from him matters for any reason?

 

Also, explain why his sense of humor will have anything to do with his work as a Senator.