With the #12 Pick of the 2009 draft the Bills select...

[Numark]

C

TE

OLB

 

are still the big 3 weaknesses on our team. DE may have the most impact, but right now we have preston at center, ellison at OLB, and Royal at TE. None of those three people should be starters on any team. At least Kelsay is an average DE

[Tunis69]

In that case Buffalo will pick him in the first.

hahahahaha, v. true!

[2003Contenders]

Count me in for the best available player (almost) regardless of position.

 

If we were to go based on position, I would say LB -- either OLB or MLB, since we can move Poz outside if there is a better MLB prospect in the draft. I think that would help set us up for the most immediate impact -- as LBs, RBs and OL are usually the fastest players to make a transition to the NFL. I personally believe that DE is really the most glaring need, but the NFL annals are filled with 1st round DE busts. I would be more inclined to fill the DE need in free agency -- and use a mid-round pick on DE depth. The same goes for the TE position. Royal needs to go, and we would be best served replacing him with a free agent -- unless there is a really good prospect available in the 2nd/3rd round of the draft. And, yes, we do need an improvement at Safety, as DW is playing out of position because Simpson and Wilson are a liability at FS. It would be interesting to see if any of our CBs (Greer, Youboty, Corner) can play FS.

 

I would also look toward free agency for a veteran QB to backup/push Trent. If we go QB, it should be a 6th/7th round option to push Hamden.

 

1. LB

2. TE/DE (whichever is NOT addressed in free agency)

3. S (player capable of playing FS)

4. TE/DE (whichever IS addressed in free agency)

5. OL (preferably interior help at OG or C)

6. PPA

7. BPA

[LABills08]

I said earlier that there is no way the Bills select Alex Mack with their 1st round pick (knowing it will be a top 15 pick, maybe even a top 10 pick). I received a lot of flack for that, and I will retract my statement a tiny bit. I still think that if the Bills sit at their draft spot, they will not take him and rather take the best DE/OLB available.

 

But, if they think they can trade down to 16-20 and get him, it is probably worth it. So long as they pick up a 2nd and 3rd/4th round pick for the trade it would make sense. However, we have to remember that there is no way the Bills can put the same DE rotation on the field next year and there is no way Ellison and Royal will be starters. Consequently, either Ralph opens up his pocket or we are once agian using the draft to fill a lot of important starting roles.

 

I think in terms of draft impact, you have to go with fixing either of the lines. I think that Alex Mack is a top talent, but Luigs will most likely be there for us in the 2nd round at pick 32-42 and he will also be a huge upgrade over Preston. There will not be the impact DE/OLB available at that spot. If we take Mack late in the 1st we will fix one hole and the result will be fixing the DE/OLB and TE positions with lesser talents. By the way, no offense to Modrak, but he has recently done a pretty terrible job of finding 2nd-6th round talent aside from Edwards.

 

I can't stress enough how not having a legitimate pass rusher is the major problem facing this team. TE is a luxury upgrade in my opinion. Center is a necessary upgrade as well, but it can be found in the 2nd round or late in the 1st. Our offense looked like the major culprit this year and it most certainly was. But, when you look at the Ravens, Steelers and last year's Giants, you realize that defense wins games. And the one thing all of those teams have in common is that they are physical and they get to the QB. Our defense can't get off the field and we stay in games through the good play of our DB's and Marcus Stroud's ability to take a few O-lineman out of the play for just long enough so that Mitchell, Poz and Whitner can make a play. But, I would argue that the rotation of Denney, Schobel and Kelsay is one of the worst Defensive End rotations in the league and if it is not addressed via FA it needs to be addressed through the draft.

[Bill from NYC]

And, yes, we do need an improvement at Safety, as DW is playing out of position because Simpson and Wilson are a liability at FS. It would be interesting to see if any of our CBs (Greer, Youboty, Corner) can play FS.

 

That's what I am thinking. Plus, Greer will probably be leaving so we might want to look at a first round corner as well.

We are strong enough; it's time for a few more gadget players.

[2003Contenders]

By the way, no offense to Modrak, but he has recently done a pretty terrible job of finding 2nd-6th round talent aside from Edwards.

 

He actually has found some diamonds in the rough: Reed, Crowell, McGee, Ellison, Butler, K Williams. I am not excited about Parrish, Denney or Kelsay, but you couldn't exactly call any of them a 2nd round bust. The verdict is still out on Preston, Youboty, Poz and the entire 2008 class.

[Jerry Jabber]

I can't stress enough how not having a legitimate pass rusher is the major problem facing this team. TE is a luxury upgrade in my opinion. Center is a necessary upgrade as well, but it can be found in the 2nd round or late in the 1st. Our offense looked like the major culprit this year and it most certainly was. But, when you look at the Ravens, Steelers and last year's Giants, you realize that defense wins games. And the one thing all of those teams have in common is that they are physical and they get to the QB. Our defense can't get off the field and we stay in games through the good play of our DB's and Marcus Stroud's ability to take a few O-lineman out of the play for just long enough so that Mitchell, Poz and Whitner can make a play. But, I would argue that the rotation of Denney, Schobel and Kelsay is one of the worst Defensive End rotations in the league and if it is not addressed via FA it needs to be addressed through the draft.

 

I agree 100%. I've said in other posts we need 2 DE's. It would be great if we could get Julius Peppers or another good DE in FA. If not then we need an impact DE out of the draft. I think Schobel is overpaid & overrated. Schobel is good against the run, but can't put pressure on the QB consistently. I don't know how many times we've seen him run 10 yards up the field and try to swing around the O-lineman, he takes himself out of the play when that happens. At $8+ million a year, he's not worth it. If we can trade him, dump his salary & get something in return for him (ie- 1st day draft pick(s)) then that would be great.

[Alphadawg7]

I think Mack is going to be great and would love to have him. But at 12 we need DE, DT, OLB, impact player in the front seven is a must.

 

Why do people keep saying we need to use a high round pick on DT? Our interior D Line is good and will be better when they arent getting extra attention because we have no DE's penetrating. In fact, Stroud was much more effective before Schobel got hurt. An upgrade at LB and DE will make our interior D Line much better, and its actually pretty good now.

 

So looking at our needs, this would be one of the last positons we need to spend any first day picks on.

[LABills08]

He actually has found some diamonds in the rough: Reed, Crowell, McGee, Ellison, Butler, K Williams. I am not excited about Parrish, Denney or Kelsay, but you couldn't exactly call any of them a 2nd round bust. The verdict is still out on Preston, Youboty, Poz and the entire 2008 class.

 

 

 

I disagree. I don't think K Williams/Butler/Ellison are diamonds. Maybe....efficient picks? None of them would be starting on the top teams in the league. Williams and Ellison are way undersized for their positions and they get outplayed by good competition. Ellison would be a great back up as a 6th round pick and he had a great rookie season filling in when Takeo went down. But he is not a diamond. Butler was a good pick, but he also would most likely be a backup for the top 5 teams in the league. Same for Williams, who at times just gets MAN HANDELED by opposing centers and guards.

 

Reed was a 2nd round pick who was actually projected for the 1st round, so I wouldn't call him a diamond in the rough. Crowell I'll give you, though he was 94th pick overall.

 

McGee was a true diamond in the rough and is probably one of Modrak's top draft choices. Jason Peters was signed when Donahue was running the show, so I'm not sure who gets the credit.

 

I think Poz was a great choice, Youboty could turn out to be a Crowell-esq pick as well (someone drafted in the 3rd round who performs like a day 1 draft choice). Preston I think has been given a verdict as a draft pick and he clearly was a failure.

 

I'm just saying, I would argue that Modrak has done a fairly C+ job at evaluating talent.

[Alphadawg7]

I agree 100%. I've said in other posts we need 2 DE's. It would be great if we could get Julius Peppers or another good DE in FA. If not then we need an impact DE out of the draft. I think Schobel is overpaid & overrated. Schobel is good against the run, but can't put pressure on the QB consistently. I don't know how many times we've seen him run 10 yards up the field and try to swing around the O-lineman, he takes himself out of the play when that happens. At $8+ million a year, he's not worth it. If we can trade him, dump his salary & get something in return for him (ie- 1st day draft pick(s)) then that would be great.

 

Say what you want about Schobel, but the guy gets extra attention regularly and frequently double teamed and is still one of the most productive DE's in the league in terms of sacks during his span in the NFL. Most important aspect of what I just said is that he STILL gets extra attention when he is in the game, which then in turn makes life easier for players like Stroud. In fact Stroud was more effective before Schobel got hurt. We are a better team with this guy on the field.

 

We definitely need another DE for sure and the contracts of Kelsay and Denney are dead weight. I would say we have about a 1% chance at best of getting Peppers and I will be shocked if he doesnt spend most of his career in Carolina...he wants to stay and they want him to stay.

 

But that doesnt mean there are not other options in FA or the draft to upgrade from Kelsay/Denney combo. I would love to see us dump Denney and keep Kelsay as a back up (assuming we only dump one) as he does play hard out there and not all that bad, just not quite worth his contract. But I can live with his contract when it isnt including Denneys dead weight and he is rotating in and not starting.

 

Ultimately, if we can pick up a nice DE and dump both and add depth through the draft, then even better. But a more realistic idea is to dump one, and if I have to choose then I say keep Kelsay.

[lacoy38]

In my opinion Center is and always has been the weakest link to the offensive Line. I say we draft a Center with the first round pick only if its ALEX MACK they say he has probowl potential written all over him and hes smart and a leader and hes a pure center not a converted Ol to be center.

 

I know some are thinking DE pass rusher but unless the bills are willing to eat the salaries of Schoebel and Kelsay I dont foresee that happening.

 

So lets start the who do we draft first thread:

 

With the #12 Pick of the 2009 draft tyhe Bills select: Center Alex Mack

mackwould be good but not as early as we're picking; i'd say orapko then trade up into late 1st and grab mack.

[Jerry Jabber]

Say what you want about Schobel, but the guy gets extra attention regularly and frequently double teamed and is still one of the most productive DE's in the league in terms of sacks during his span in the NFL. Most important aspect of what I just said is that he STILL gets extra attention when he is in the game, which then in turn makes life easier for players like Stroud. In fact Stroud was more effective before Schobel got hurt. We are a better team with this guy on the field.

 

We definitely need another DE for sure and the contracts of Kelsay and Denney are dead weight. I would say we have about a 1% chance at best of getting Peppers and I will be shocked if he doesnt spend most of his career in Carolina...he wants to stay and they want him to stay.

 

But that doesnt mean there are not other options in FA or the draft to upgrade from Kelsay/Denney combo. I would love to see us dump Denney and keep Kelsay as a back up (assuming we only dump one) as he does play hard out there and not all that bad, just not quite worth his contract. But I can live with his contract when it isnt including Denneys dead weight and he is rotating in and not starting.

 

Ultimately, if we can pick up a nice DE and dump both and add depth through the draft, then even better. But a more realistic idea is to dump one, and if I have to choose then I say keep Kelsay.

 

Maybe Schobel can get back to his probowl form with help from another DE. But, he only had 6.5 sacks last year and 1 this year in 5 games, you don't pay someone $8+ million a year for those kind of results. Like I said, maybe he can do better if he had more help?

[LABills08]

Maybe Schobel can get back to his probowl form with help from another DE. But, he only had 6.5 sacks last year and 1 this year in 5 games, you don't pay someone $8+ million a year for those kind of results. Like I said, maybe he can do better if he had more help?

 

I promise you that Schobel would get 8-10 sacks a year if we had a pro-bowl DE on the other side of him. But, he is not good enough to be the best Defensive End on a good team. He would be a great partner to a good Defensive End as he clearly has talent, but he cannot take over a game like the best DE's in the league can.

[Jerry Jabber]

I promise you that Schobel would get 8-10 sacks a year if we had a pro-bowl DE on the other side of him. But, he is not good enough to be the best Defensive End on a good team. He would be a great partner to a good Defensive End as he clearly has talent, but he cannot take over a game like the best DE's in the league can.

 

I agree, I feel Schobel would be a great complimentary DE like Hansen & Paup were to Bruce.

[Poeticlaw]

I say keep Denney. I agree re: Peppers. Literally a 0.000001% chance of him actually coming to the Bills. Hell I bet you its less than a 1% chance he even leaves Carolina.

 

Which leads me to address a larger issue, can the Bills lure big time Free Agents to play for them? Aside from not being able to offer them money, does anyone actually want to play for them? The team comes off as pretty dysfunctional. Not in the sense that the Bills as a team don't get along (our lockerroom is the opposite of the Cowboy's lockerroom). But, who the hell wants to play for Ralph Wilson? I think he getting a terrible reputation around the league.

 

Iwas talking to my Buddy a PAtriots guy since I live in NE and we actaully discussed in length that the Bills are going through what the Patriots went through pre-Parcells era. Before Parcells went to NE there want a single STARTING CALIBER FREE AGENT who was willing to go there. Then parcells went there brought some of his players to help him out that year and a change in uniforms and attidudes and you see the Patriots you have today Free agents willing to take paycuts to Play for the chance at a championship.

 

YES I believe we have lost the ability to SIGN premier/eliete Free agents because of how we treat players of high salaries and our lack of consistnecy at QB hate to say it you might not like it But BLEDSOE was a Free agent draw now we have noone on this team that can attract players to play we were so desperate to get OL help we overpaid the players to ensure we could have someone instead of noone. You think stroud would be here if we didnt trade for him and How about the last fiasco trade whre the player didnt want to be here and we had to trade him for less then what we trade to get him.

[Alphadawg7]

I promise you that Schobel would get 8-10 sacks a year if we had a pro-bowl DE on the other side of him. But, he is not good enough to be the best Defensive End on a good team. He would be a great partner to a good Defensive End as he clearly has talent, but he cannot take over a game like the best DE's in the league can.

 

Last year when he had 6 sacks, our coaches and opposing coaches all said the same thing...he may not get the sacks, but he disrupts the passing game. He is putting pressure, drawing double teams, etc.

 

A DE's performance isnt just about sacks...in fact, sacks are the most overrated stat in the game of football. Think about it, lets say he has 12 sacks instead of 6...that is 6 more sacks and he is viewed as dominant right. Well what does that really say...it means on 6, yes just 6 plays in an ENTIRE season of plays, he got to a QB a fraction of a second faster. Never mind, that in those 6 plays he didnt get the sack that he still hit the QB, pressured the QB, maybe forced the QB into a bad pass that resulted in an INT for our defense, etc. (I will take a INT over a sack always, and a lot of INT's happen on bad passes from pressure from our pass rush).

 

Sacks are such a small part of how effective a pass rusher is. There is so much Schobel does that doesnt show up on the stat sheet, including being pretty good against the run. And when you are the only dangerous player on the line, then you get extra attention, making it harder to get the fabled sack, but he may still have gotten pressure, which he did and its why he was chosen by his PEERS to play in the Pro Bowl with opposing coaches saying it was an easy choice because he gave them fits on game day and they had to gameplan for him each week.

[Alphadawg7]

I agree, I feel Schobel would be a great complimentary DE like Hansen & Paup were to Bruce.

 

FYI too...Schobel had 6 Forced Fumbles and 96 tackles to go with his 6.5 sacks last year to show his overll effectiveness...make no mistake, we are a better team with him on the field and the other teams have to account for him. If we had another guy equal to him or better on the other side we would have a pretty dominant D Line...

[LABills08]

Last year when he had 6 sacks, our coaches and opposing coaches all said the same thing...he may not get the sacks, but he disrupts the passing game. He is putting pressure, drawing double teams, etc.

 

A DE's performance isnt just about sacks...in fact, sacks are the most overrated stat in the game of football. Think about it, lets say he has 12 sacks instead of 6...that is 6 more sacks and he is viewed as dominant right. Well what does that really say...it means on 6, yes just 6 plays in an ENTIRE season of plays, he got to a QB a fraction of a second faster. Never mind, that in those 6 plays he didnt get the sack that he still hit the QB, pressured the QB, maybe forced the QB into a bad pass that resulted in an INT for our defense, etc. (I will take a INT over a sack always, and a lot of INT's happen on bad passes from pressure from our pass rush).

 

Sacks are such a small part of how effective a pass rusher is. There is so much Schobel does that doesnt show up on the stat sheet, including being pretty good against the run. And when you are the only dangerous player on the line, then you get extra attention, making it harder to get the fabled sack, but he may still have gotten pressure, which he did and its why he was chosen by his PEERS to play in the Pro Bowl with opposing coaches saying it was an easy choice because he gave them fits on game day and they had to gameplan for him each week.

 

That might be so regarding his respect around the league. And I agree stats don't tell the full story. My point is solely this. In my opinion, he is a great Defensive End that gets dragged down by the poor talent of his teammates and thus the extra attention he gets makes him less effective. WHAT I WANT, is an EVEN BETTER Defensive End, that is good enough to make everyone around him better because of how effective he can be, even when he is given the extra attention.

 

I don't buy this, "well everyone else is around him sucks so his talent is negated", great players always beat out the extra attention they get. This is especially true of players on the Defensive Line.

 

I will say, to the credit of Schobel, the play of the Bills went down drastically without him in the game.

[Jerry Jabber]

Bottom line, with no pass rush, we will continue to get eaten up by the good QB's in the league. Brady put up 38 & 56 points against Schobel & company last year. Warner put up 41 points this year. The DE position has to be addressed this offseason.

[Poeticlaw]

Last year when he had 6 sacks, our coaches and opposing coaches all said the same thing...he may not get the sacks, but he disrupts the passing game. He is putting pressure, drawing double teams, etc.

 

A DE's performance isnt just about sacks...in fact, sacks are the most overrated stat in the game of football. Think about it, lets say he has 12 sacks instead of 6...that is 6 more sacks and he is viewed as dominant right. Well what does that really say...it means on 6, yes just 6 plays in an ENTIRE season of plays, he got to a QB a fraction of a second faster. Never mind, that in those 6 plays he didnt get the sack that he still hit the QB, pressured the QB, maybe forced the QB into a bad pass that resulted in an INT for our defense, etc. (I will take a INT over a sack always, and a lot of INT's happen on bad passes from pressure from our pass rush).

 

Sacks are such a small part of how effective a pass rusher is. There is so much Schobel does that doesnt show up on the stat sheet, including being pretty good against the run. And when you are the only dangerous player on the line, then you get extra attention, making it harder to get the fabled sack, but he may still have gotten pressure, which he did and its why he was chosen by his PEERS to play in the Pro Bowl with opposing coaches saying it was an easy choice because he gave them fits on game day and they had to gameplan for him each week.

 

 

Osrry but the bills ranked 27 with 22 sacks and 26th with only 9 interceptions. NO pressure to the qbs leading to Ints Maybe incomplete passes but you would have to go throgh each individual game to see if the Dl was the cause of that. Sorry to bust up your theory