Bailout VS UAW

[John Adams]

Another stupid post:

Why should they dump cash into Chrysler, which is a hugely risky investment?

 

Because that's what owning and running a business is all about. What the hell do you think running a business is about, man? It's not going to always be positive. You have to ride out the bad times to get to the good times.

 

Would I dump money into Chrysler>>>>> Yes!! If I have money and I want to keep my business going. I'm willing to show the gov't good faith by doing so . . . until I can sell it or merge with GM.

 

BTW Ford said they don't need the money. There's a big difference in what Ford is doing compared to what Chrysler is doing. Chrysler is acting like a weasel plan and simple.

 

And that's why you don't want Private Equity firms running things. They bought Chrysler for a bargain basement price. They knew about the UAW when they did and now they're acting like weasels.

 

You are an idiot. No one HAS to dump money into anything. If Cerebrus's investors don't want to dump money into Chrysler, they need not do it. Again: that's life. They didn't know Chrysler was going to sh-- the bed like this.

 

Let me tell you: If I had a billion dollars in Cerebrus and they said they were going to make a huge investment in the POS Chrysler, I'd pull my money out tomorrow. Some investments are bad. Chrysler is the definition of a bad investment.

 

You really don't get it.

 

(Ford is different. It's actually been forward thinking and has a smaller more efficient lineup on the road already, with fewer cars. They are a success story.)

[RLflutie7]

Please tell me you're a troll.

 

So now you're telling me that whenever the American consumer changes his mind, someone should get a bailout? That's rich brother.

 

Somehow Toyota--though struggling--is not about to collapse. And yet they make mostly smaller cars. How could this be? Could it be that they were better managed? Had better insight? Had less dealers? Invested in fuel efficient cars while GM was putting out Suburbans?

 

And for this failure of foresight, you argue--not just that Am auto needs rescue for the economy's sake--but that they "deserve" a bailout. As if failure somehow MERITS reward. Tell us you're Hogboy, please.

 

 

You'll never get it and you'll always work for someone else.

 

Toyota DOES NOT MAKE MOSTLY SMALLER CARS. Are you dumb?

 

Most of Toyota's lineup is a V6 or higher and they've also concentrated on Big SUVs and trucks. Following GMs lead.

 

What they've done is concentrate on stealing market share. More power to them. They did a better job at that.

[pBills]

You are an idiot. No one HAS to dump money into anything. If Cerebrus's investors don't want to dump money into Chrysler, they need not do it. Again: that's life. They didn't know Chrysler was going to sh-- the bed like this.

 

Let me tell you: If I had a billion dollars in Cerebrus and they said they were going to make a huge investment in the POS Chrysler, I'd pull my money out tomorrow. Some investments are bad. Chrysler is the definition of a bad investment.

 

You really don't get it.

 

(Ford is different. It's actually been forward thinking and has a smaller more efficient lineup on the road already, with fewer cars. They are a success story.)

 

 

 

I agree with you in regards to Chrysler. I wouldn't necessarily call Ford a success story yet either. I think both Ford and GM stretched themselves way to much. Glad that GM is getting the loan and hoping that they will trim back the lines to GMC, Chevy and maybe keep the G6/G8 line from Pontiac.

[DC Tom]

You'll never get it and you'll always work for someone else.

 

 

Holy Christ, you're a !@#$ing moron.

[KD in CA]

Your post boils down to this: "American carmakers made bad decisions and are now paying the price." And your solution for a horrible business decision is to make me bail them out?

 

And you have the never to say he's the dumbest person on this message board?

 

Evidently we've discovered another ID for molton_golden.

 

 

I love when these idiots rant and rave and give zero justification for whatever it is they are ranting about.

[pBills]

Evidently we've discovered another ID for molton_golden.

 

 

I love when these idiots rant and rave and give zero justification for whatever it is they are ranting about.

 

 

 

And I love it when you call every else an idiot. Enjoying that holiday spirit.

[John Adams]

You'll never get it and you'll always work for someone else.

 

I don't have a boss nimrod.

 

Toyota DOES NOT MAKE MOSTLY SMALLER CARS. Are you dumb?

 

Most of Toyota's lineup is a V6 or higher and they've also concentrated on Big SUVs and trucks. Following GMs lead.

 

Riiiiight. The huge Camry and Corolla...not to mention the Yaris, Prius, and RAV4. See actual November data below doofus. It shows that the small car lineup outsells the Highlander/Tacoma beasts by a lot.

 

Toyota Division

Toyota Division passenger cars recorded November sales of 68,013 units, down 31.1 percent from the same period last year. Passenger car sales were led by Camry and Camry Hybrid, which posted combined sales of 25,224 units. Camry Hybrid reported November sales of 2,174 units. Corolla recorded sales of 21,807 units. Yaris reported sales of 4,545 units for the month. The Prius mid-size gas-electric hybrid posted November sales of 8,660 units.

 

Toyota Division light trucks posted November sales of 46,071 units, down 37.4 percent from November 2007. Light truck sales were led by the RAV4 compact SUV with November sales of 9,260 units. The Tacoma mid-size pickup reported sales of 8,648 units for the month. Highlander and Highlander Hybrid posted combined sales of 7,887 units. The Highlander Hybrid gas-electric mid- size SUV reported sales of 907 units. Sequoia posted sales of 1,873 units for the month, up 51.9 percent over the same period last year.

[RLflutie7]

Holy Christ, you're a !@#$ing moron.

 

 

So your saying Toyota just makes small cars?

 

What is your point?

[John Adams]

So your saying Toyota just makes small cars?

 

What is your point?

 

Did you miss his point? Let me clear it up: You're a !@#$ing moron.

[RLflutie7]

I don't have a boss nimrod.

 

 

 

Riiiiight. The huge Camry and Corolla...not to mention the Yaris, Prius, and RAV4. See actual November data below doofus. It shows that the small car lineup outsells the Highlander/Tacoma beasts by a lot.

 

 

The Camry is not a small car. Get over it.

 

The Corolla is a small car and the sales numbers you posted are a temporary business development.

 

How long before the American public goes back to driving gas guzzlers?

 

All these small cars are going to be traded in for Big SUVs in the near future. The Amercian Consumer has not learned the lesson.

 

You'll see.

[RLflutie7]

You are an idiot. No one HAS to dump money into anything. If Cerebrus's investors don't want to dump money into Chrysler, they need not do it. Again: that's life. They didn't know Chrysler was going to sh-- the bed like this.

 

Let me tell you: If I had a billion dollars in Cerebrus and they said they were going to make a huge investment in the POS Chrysler, I'd pull my money out tomorrow. Some investments are bad. Chrysler is the definition of a bad investment.

 

You really don't get it.

 

(Ford is different. It's actually been forward thinking and has a smaller more efficient lineup on the road already, with fewer cars. They are a success story.)

 

 

So we agree with Ford. I guess that's good.

 

Why do you think Congress was grilling Chrysler more than GM and Ford? Because Chrysler has an owner that can invest money into a very viable company and they want a hand out instead.

 

And, being the retard that you are, you just repeated what I said about GM. "They didn't know Chrysler was going to sh-- the bed like this."

 

Neither did GM and Ford!!!!

 

 

The only issue that you have a leg to stand on is the quality issue and how it caused GM to lose market share.

 

Every other arguement that you make contradicts itself and you can't even see it.

 

What a retard!

[John Adams]

The Camry is not a small car. Get over it.

 

The Corolla is a small car and the sales numbers you posted are a temporary business development.

 

How long before the American public goes back to driving gas guzzlers?

 

All these small cars are going to be traded in for Big SUVs in the near future. The Amercian Consumer has not learned the lesson.

 

You'll see.

 

Here's 2007. The Camry comes standard as a V4.

 

Toyota Division passenger cars recorded September sales of 107,743, a decrease of one percent from last September. Passenger car sales were led by Toyota Camry, which posted best-ever September sales of 40,438, up 9.9 percent over the same period last year. Toyota Camry Hybrid reported sales of 4,196 units in September, up eight percent over September 2006. The Toyota Prius hybrid gas- electric mid-size sedan posted best-ever September sales of 12,494, an increase of 23.8 percent over September 2006. Toyota Corolla reported September sales of 29,550 units.

 

Toyota Division light truck sales were down 0.9 percent, with sales of 80,186 units this month. Light truck sales were led by the all-new Toyota Tundra full-size pickup with best-ever September sales of 19,571, an increase 61.4 percent over the year-ago month. The RAV4 compact sport utility vehicle reported best-ever September sales of 14,412, up 29.8 percent over the same period last year. Toyota Highlander and Toyota Highlander Hybrid posted combined September sales of 8,173 units.

[pBills]

The Camry is not a small car. Get over it.

 

The Corolla is a small car and the sales numbers you posted are a temporary business development.

 

How long before the American public goes back to driving gas guzzlers?

 

All these small cars are going to be traded in for Big SUVs in the near future. The Amercian Consumer has not learned the lesson.

 

You'll see.

 

 

 

I think you may be right on some level. Yes, the American consumer likes the bigger vehicles. However, GM has been starting to introduce some great hybrid or flexfuel SUVs. Tahoe Hybrid is extremely nice.

 

And actually I drive a Suburban. The engine switches from V8 to V4 at cruising speeds. I get pretty good gas mileage on it.

[John Adams]

And 2005, after the Prius was released (God knows how they had the foresight to release it.)

 

Toyota Division

 

The Toyota Division recorded best-ever year-end total sales of 1,957,401 vehicles, up 10.8 percent.

 

The Toyota Division recorded best-ever year-end passenger car sales of 1,138,130 units, an increase of 18.3 percent, and December sales of 88,887, up 8.1 percent. Camry posted year-end sales of 431,703, an increase of 1.4 percent. Corolla posted year-end sales of 341,290 units, an increase of 2.8 percent.

 

The Prius gas-electric hybrid posted best-ever December sales of 9,027 units, an increase of 43.6 percent over the same period last year. Year-end Prius sales reached 107,897 units, up 100.5 percent over 2004.

 

Scion reported best-ever December sales with 12,457 units sold. The Scion xB urban utility vehicle recorded a best-ever December with 4,341 units, up 13.4 percent, with year-end sales totaling 54,037, an increase of 15.3 percent over 2004. The tC sports coupe had a best-ever December of 5,724 units sold, with year-end sales reaching 74,415 units, an increase of 166.0 percent over 2004. The xA subcompact posted a best-ever December with 2,392 units sold, an increase of 19.6 percent; xA year-end sales reached 28,033 units, up 16.3 percent from last year.

 

The Toyota Division recorded all-time best-ever year-end light-truck sales with 819,271 units, an increase of 1.8 percent. Toyota Division light trucks also posted all-time best-ever December sales of 79,206, up 8.1 percent over the same period last year. The Highlander Hybrid gas-electric mid-size SUV, which launched in early June, reported sales of 2,198 units in December and year-end sales of 17,989 units. The Highlander and Highlander Hybrid posted combined December sales of 11,309 units.

 

Contributing to the light-truck sales record was the Tundra full-size pickup truck with all-time best-ever December sales of 15,632 units, up 33.4 percent. Year-end Tundra sales were 126,529 units, up 12.9 percent over last year.

[RLflutie7]

Here's 2007. The Camry comes standard as a V4.

 

 

I don't get you at all!! You just proved my point again. Americans like bigger cars and trucks.

 

 

The Toyota Prius had a 23.8 percent increase (12,494 units sole) while the FULL SIZE TOYOTA TUNDRA posted a 61.4% increase (19,571 units sold).

 

which one is better? All you have to look at is the units sold. Plus the profit is better on the truck.

 

Do yourself a favor and stop posting to prove my point.

[pBills]

I don't get you at all!! You just proved my point again. Americans like bigger cars and trucks.

 

 

The Toyota Prius had a 23.8 percent increase (12,494 units sole) while the FULL SIZE TOYOTA TUNDRA posted a 61.4% increase (19,571 units sold).

 

which one is better? All you have to look at is the units sold. Plus the profit is better on the truck.

 

Do yourself a favor and stop posting to prove my point.

 

 

 

Who gives a cap what Americans like? Better fuel efficiency for ALL vehicles is needed. Trimming down the lines/brands is needed.

[RLflutie7]

Who gives a cap what Americans like? Better fuel efficiency for ALL vehicles is needed. Trimming down the lines/brands is needed.

 

 

Idealism does not run a business. Americans want performance and I'm not sure fuel efficiency is going to work.

 

Trimming down the lines and brands is a good idea.

[pBills]

Idealism does not run a business. Americans want performance and I'm not sure fuel efficiency is going to work.

 

Trimming down the lines and brands is a good idea.

 

 

You actually get great performance out of some hybrid vehicles.

[John Adams]

I don't get you at all!! You just proved my point again. Americans like bigger cars and trucks.

 

 

The Toyota Prius had a 23.8 percent increase (12,494 units sole) while the FULL SIZE TOYOTA TUNDRA posted a 61.4% increase (19,571 units sold).

 

which one is better? All you have to look at is the units sold. Plus the profit is better on the truck.

 

Do yourself a favor and stop posting to prove my point.

 

That's a nice meaningless stat from the 2007 numbers. Let's look at things now: In Nov 2008, the Tundra sold 6,607 units. 11/2007: 19,571. For the Prius...2008:8,660. 2007:12,494.

 

Seeing as how you're putting on such an impressive display of business acumen, I'm guessing you'd say the Tundra is doing better than the Prius.

[RLflutie7]

You actually get great performance out of some hybrid vehicles.

 

 

OK. I find that hard to believe but, I'll take your word for it.

 

I watched a show on PBS that Alan Alda did on the cars of the future.

 

He interviewed a Toyota product developer and they said the following: Americans want performance. And they continued to say that performance is at odds with good gas milage.