Schonert is right

[nodnarb]

Turk was right in what he said, even if it wasn't right TO say it. You might not like the call, but Jauron's explanation of the situation is perfectly reasonable. The point is that if it's not there, you dump it off or throw it away. How many times has JP fumbled away a key play? Probably more than anyone his age. So if there was a mistake in the playcall, it was giving it to JP specifically. But if he had done the smart thing and either

 

a. audibled to a run, or

b. thrown in away, or

c. tuck and run

 

We would probably be talking about a win today.

 

I'm not sold on Turk, far from it. He has deserved the criticism to date. But JP is a losing QB who is dreaming if he thinks he's going to be a starter in the league for anyone other than a rebuilding team like the Lions looking for someone to keep the seat warm for their 2009 draft pick.

 

Losman is practically blind on the field. That's his main problem. A sense that he's better than he really is is problem #2, and that one affects everything else.

[The Dean]

Dumping it away is a TERRIBLE idea, that's one of the reasons it is a bad call. There would likely be more than 2 minutes left on the clock, if JP, "dumps it away".

 

There is simply no justification for the Bills running that play, in that situation, with that QB, at that time in the game, because the running game was KILLING.

 

CONTEXT!!!

 

In a vacuum it isn't a stupid play, In context it is boneheaded.

[BBills14]

if jp dumps it away it is the 2 minute warning any ways, so the clock stops. But it has to be on coaching.

 

A. Give it to a running back who has 2 fumbles in his career?

B. Give it to a quater back who has proven he can't hang on to the ball?

[The Dean]

if jp dumps it away it is the 2 minute warning any ways,

 

 

Probably not.

 

Why do people keep saying an incompletion doesn't matter as they would be at the 2min warning? That simply is untrue. Had JP dumped the Ball as soon as he felt pressure, there would have been a second or two left before the 2min warning. Many incomplete pass plays (especially a dump off to the FB) take less than 6 seconds.

[Johnny Coli]

Dumping it away is a TERRIBLE idea, that's one of the reasons it is a bad call. There would likely be more than 2 minutes left on the clock, if JP, "dumps it away".

 

There is simply no justification for the Bills running that play, in that situation, with that QB, at that time in the game, because the running game was KILLING.

 

CONTEXT!!!

 

In a vacuum it isn't a stupid play, In context it is boneheaded.

They called that play from their own 27 yard line, no less. I don't think another coach calls that play in their own end of the field no matter who the QB is.

[John from Riverside]

The play calling has been atrocious....but once again i go back to a post I made last week.

 

If DJ was a conservative play not to lose coach...those guys are usually predicated on predominately running the ball and playing sound defense to limit turovers.......

 

So WTF does he call a passing play when it makes perfect sense to run? It is like (and Turk too) that they try to do the opposite of the first thing that comes into their mind to throw off the opposition.

 

Meanwhile our opponents coaches are over in the "coaching football for dummies" book laughing their @sses off.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

Probably not.

 

Why do people keep saying an incompletion doesn't matter as they would be at the 2min warning? That simply is untrue. Had JP dumped the Ball as soon as he felt pressure, there would have been a second or two left before the 2min warning. Many incomplete pass plays (especially a dump off to the FB) take less than 6 seconds.

Thats the same thing I was screaming at DJ in his presser, if he throws it quick and incomplete ya gave the Jets a TO via a stopped clock . Run the damn ball, get clock to 2:00. during the break discuss the third down call assuming ya didnt get the first down on the run. All I can say is DORK call by a DORK of a HC or whoemever called the damn thing. Even if JP dumped it out it still is a bad play call

[stuckincincy]

Turk was right in what he said, even if it wasn't right TO say it. You might not like the call, but Jauron's explanation of the situation is perfectly reasonable. The point is that if it's not there, you dump it off or throw it away. How many times has JP fumbled away a key play? Probably more than anyone his age. So if there was a mistake in the playcall, it was giving it to JP specifically. But if he had done the smart thing and either

 

a. audibled to a run, or

b. thrown in away, or

c. tuck and run

 

We would probably be talking about a win today.

 

I'm not sold on Turk, far from it. He has deserved the criticism to date. But JP is a losing QB who is dreaming if he thinks he's going to be a starter in the league for anyone other than a rebuilding team like the Lions looking for someone to keep the seat warm for their 2009 draft pick.

 

Losman is practically blind on the field. That's his main problem. A sense that he's better than he really is is problem #2, and that one affects everything else.

 

Most all Offensive (and Defensive) coordinators are cowards, consulting historical charts and doing things like prevent defenses and ignoring what actions got them the lead in the first place.

 

I applaud the HC that that the nuts to take their duties away from them.

[reddogblitz]

They called that play from their own 27 yard line, no less. I don't think another coach calls that play in their own end of the field no matter who the QB is.

 

I don't call this play if I got Johny Unitas under center.

 

I agree with the Dean. If JP had done the right thing according to Turk, he'd have gotten rid of it as soon as he saw the FB got jammed. That would have definitely taken less than six seconds. So, if JP had done the right thing it would have been 3rd and 5 with 2:02 remaining. Does anyone here doubt that ML could have picked up a first on 2 straight running plays? If he does, we win the game.

 

There's not excuse for that call at that point in the game with the success of the running game all day and your backup QB in the game.

[Stenbar]

Probably not.

 

Why do people keep saying an incompletion doesn't matter as they would be at the 2min warning? That simply is untrue. Had JP dumped the Ball as soon as he felt pressure, there would have been a second or two left before the 2min warning. Many incomplete pass plays (especially a dump off to the FB) take less than 6 seconds.

The ball was fumbled at the 2:01 mark..They scored at the 1:54 mark..Stupid call embarassing execution..Both should be rid of..The sooner this season ends and these two embarassment of people at their professions are gone the better...

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

if jp dumps it away it is the 2 minute warning any ways, so the clock stops. But it has to be on coaching.

 

A. Give it to a running back who has 2 fumbles in his career?

B. Give it to a quater back who has proven he can't hang on to the ball?

 

Exactly! The only thing that truly could have killed us in that scenario was a turnover. Even two consecutive runs of negative 5 yards and a punt would have put our defense in a position to win it for us. But a turnover was what must have been avoided. Marshawn has lost 2 fumbles in his career, and JP has 8 fumbles and 5 interceptions this year. Which one would you put the ball in the hands of??? As a coach, your primary responsibility during a game is to play the percentages whenever you make a decision IMO, something which Jauron repeatedly fails to do.

[kasper13]

The call was stupid from the get go. Jets knew it was coming. Mangini was quoted in the Buffalo News this morning as saying "Bills ALWAYS do one of two things in that situation- run right or roll out pass left and we had both covered". That play was doomed to fail even before it was called and of course with JP back there, it was doomed to cost the Bills the game.

[dave mcbride]

It's worth remembering that by deciding to run the ball instead of try a pass to seal the deal last year, the Steelers ended up having to punt to Jax with less than two minutes to go. Jax then scored and advanced in the playoffs. Pitt took a lot of heat for it.

 

Pittsburgh Steelers at 3:43 JAC PIT

1st and 10 at PIT 22 (3:43) N.Davenport right guard to PIT 27 for 5 yards (R.Hayward).

2nd and 5 at PIT 27 (3:02) N.Davenport left tackle to PIT 26 for -1 yards (S.Knight; B.Williams).

Timeout #1 by JAX at 02:56.

3rd and 6 at PIT 26 (2:56) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger runs left tackle to PIT 27 for 1 yard (S.Knight).

Timeout #2 by JAX at 02:50.

4th and 5 at PIT 27 (2:50) (Punt formation) D.Sepulveda punts 40 yards to JAX 33, Center-G.Warren. D.Northcutt to JAX 49 for 16 yards (G.Warren).

 

Jacksonville Jaguars at 2:38 JAC PIT

1st and 10 at JAX 49 (2:38) D.Garrard pass incomplete deep middle to E.Wilford.

Jacksonville challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #3.) 2-10-JAX 49 (2:31) (Shotgun) D.Garrard pass short right to R.Williams to PIT 43 for 8 yards (B.McFadden).

Two-Minute Warning

3rd and 2 at PIT 43 (2:00) (Shotgun) D.Garrard pass incomplete short left to M.Lewis. Coverage by #92 J. Harrison.

4th and 2 at PIT 43 (1:56) (Shotgun) D.Garrard scrambles up the middle to PIT 11 for 32 yards (T.Carter).

Timeout #1 by PIT at 01:34.

1st and 10 at PIT 11 (1:34) M.Jones-Drew right guard to PIT 13 for -2 yards (J.Farrior).

Timeout #2 by PIT at 01:30.

2nd and 12 at PIT 13 (1:30) M.Jones-Drew right guard to PIT 8 for 5 yards (T.Kirschke, L.Foote).

Timeout #3 by PIT at 01:25.

3rd and 7 at PIT 8 (1:25) M.Jones-Drew right guard to PIT 2 for 6 yards (T.Polamalu; T.Carter).

4th and 1 at PIT 2 (:40) (Run formation) PENALTY on JAX-D.Garrard, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 2 - No Play.

4th and 6 at PIT 7 (:40) (Field Goal formation) J.Scobee 25 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Zelenka, Holder-A.Podlesh. 31 29

[reddogblitz]

It's worth remembering that by deciding to run the ball instead of try a pass to seal the deal last year, the Steelers ended up having to punt to Jax with less than two minutes to go. Jax then scored and advanced in the playoffs. Pitt took a lot of heat for it.

 

Pittsburgh Steelers at 3:43 JAC PIT

1st and 10 at PIT 22 (3:43) N.Davenport right guard to PIT 27 for 5 yards (R.Hayward).

2nd and 5 at PIT 27 (3:02) N.Davenport left tackle to PIT 26 for -1 yards (S.Knight; B.Williams).

Timeout #1 by JAX at 02:56.

3rd and 6 at PIT 26 (2:56) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger runs left tackle to PIT 27 for 1 yard (S.Knight).

Timeout #2 by JAX at 02:50.

4th and 5 at PIT 27 (2:50) (Punt formation) D.Sepulveda punts 40 yards to JAX 33, Center-G.Warren. D.Northcutt to JAX 49 for 16 yards (G.Warren).

 

Jacksonville Jaguars at 2:38 JAC PIT

1st and 10 at JAX 49 (2:38) D.Garrard pass incomplete deep middle to E.Wilford.

Jacksonville challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #3.) 2-10-JAX 49 (2:31) (Shotgun) D.Garrard pass short right to R.Williams to PIT 43 for 8 yards (B.McFadden).

Two-Minute Warning

3rd and 2 at PIT 43 (2:00) (Shotgun) D.Garrard pass incomplete short left to M.Lewis. Coverage by #92 J. Harrison.

4th and 2 at PIT 43 (1:56) (Shotgun) D.Garrard scrambles up the middle to PIT 11 for 32 yards (T.Carter).

Timeout #1 by PIT at 01:34.

1st and 10 at PIT 11 (1:34) M.Jones-Drew right guard to PIT 13 for -2 yards (J.Farrior).

Timeout #2 by PIT at 01:30.

2nd and 12 at PIT 13 (1:30) M.Jones-Drew right guard to PIT 8 for 5 yards (T.Kirschke, L.Foote).

Timeout #3 by PIT at 01:25.

3rd and 7 at PIT 8 (1:25) M.Jones-Drew right guard to PIT 2 for 6 yards (T.Polamalu; T.Carter).

4th and 1 at PIT 2 (:40) (Run formation) PENALTY on JAX-D.Garrard, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 2 - No Play.

4th and 6 at PIT 7 (:40) (Field Goal formation) J.Scobee 25 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Zelenka, Holder-A.Podlesh. 31 29

 

That's because it didn't work! What would people say if they had their backup fumble prone QB in and he tried to pass and fumbled? Same thing.

 

If it works you're a genius. If it doesn't, you're a goat. Life as an NFL head coach.

[thewildrabbit]

They called that play from their own 27 yard line, no less. I don't think another coach calls that play in their own end of the field no matter who the QB is.

Particularly true when you have a back that was banging like Lynch was, he was killing them.

 

Anyone who watched that first Jets game at Buffalo recalls that the Bills were handled by the Jets and I'm sure they wanted some payback for that first game.They were about to get the payback until the Bonehead OC struck again.

[BuffaloWings]

I don't call this play if I got Johny Unitas under center.

 

I agree with the Dean. If JP had done the right thing according to Turk, he'd have gotten rid of it as soon as he saw the FB got jammed. That would have definitely taken less than six seconds. So, if JP had done the right thing it would have been 3rd and 5 with 2:02 remaining. Does anyone here doubt that ML could have picked up a first on 2 straight running plays? If he does, we win the game.

 

There's not excuse for that call at that point in the game with the success of the running game all day and your backup QB in the game.

Bucky Gleason touched on it in his column, but this is a classic case of the coach out-thinking himself. As a defensive-minded coach, Jauron probably thought of what he would do if he was on defense and then had Turk call a play that would be contrary to the defense's lineup. But again, the problem lies in that he had to trust JP to either audible out of it or do the right thing with the ball.

 

It was either that or since he got burned by calling three straight running plays to settle for a 48-yard FG attempt vs Cleveland, he wasn't going to do the same thing. Different situations, of course, but this is probably what led Jauron to out-think himself.

 

And I wouldn't care if Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, or Jim Kelly were under center. I'd still call a run.

[BuffaloWings]

Particularly true when you have a back that was banging like Lynch was, he was killing them.

 

Anyone who watched that first Jets game at Buffalo recalls that the Bills were handled by the Jets and I'm sure they wanted some payback for that first game.They were about to get the payback until the Bonehead OC struck again.

Maybe, but we couldn't run at all in that game. Payback would have been to run Lynch over & over until the Jets stopped it. Since they never did, there was no reason to stop running the ball.

[TheLynchTrain]

if jp dumps it away it is the 2 minute warning any ways, so the clock stops. But it has to be on coaching.

 

A. Give it to a running back who has 2 fumbles in his career?

B. Give it to a quater back who has proven he can't hang on to the ball?

 

As I've posted on here, and others have, check this video:

 

http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerType=plays-defense

 

JP was hit betwen 2:03 or 2:02 left. If he had thrown the ball away at 2:03, there would still be 3 seconds left on the clock. A third down run would have then again stopped at the 2 min warning, and we would have to punt the ball to the Jets with 2 mins left and 2 timeouts because they didnt have to use them.

 

Enough of this talk...this conversation is over about if it was a good call or not...it was obviously a bad call...some people in the media even comparing it to the Miracle in the Meadowlands with idiot Herm "We play to win the game" Edwards.

[Bflojohn]

Worst case scenario with two running plays that fail to pick up a first down.... Time outs are utilized by the Jets, so they are left with the ball, and the need to advance the ball to the Buffalo 35 yard line realistically. The Jets offense had fizzled in the 4th quarter and didn't have a first down to show for nearly 13 minutes of football. I still maintain that with Moorman punting and the Bills coverage units doing what they usually do, the decision should have been run the ball, and the likelihood is the Jets would have had 1:10 or so (maybe less) to matriculate the ball down the field. I like the Bills chances of winning with this plan. No question the wrong call was made!!

[TheLynchTrain]

Worst case scenario with two running plays that fail to pick up a first down.... Time outs are utilized by the Jets, so they are left with the ball, and the need to advance the ball to the Buffalo 35 yard line realistically. The Jets offense had fizzled in the 4th quarter and didn't have a first down to show for nearly 13 minutes of football. I still maintain that with Moorman punting and the Bills coverage units doing what they usually do, the decision should have been run the ball, and the likelihood is the Jets would have had 1:10 or so (maybe less) to matriculate the ball down the field. I like the Bills chances of winning with this plan. No question the wrong call was made!!

 

Especially with the fact that they didn't get a first down the whole quarter! And the fact that when they did get the ball back after JPs pick, our D stuffed them 4 times and got a turnover on downs. There was absolutely no way they could have scored any offensive points on us unless Leo Washington had a nice return