daquixers Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 So we should have his first live game be our first game next year? So we can have another "learning" year - come on - let him learn this year and if he gets hurt then he has 6 months to recover AND the learning he has acquired from playing ... that way when he starts next year he will be ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 lets just rename the team, the buffalo rebuilders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 "everyone is saying dont start JP"????? The only ones who are saying don't start JP are the last of the Bledsoe Apologists who are having a hard time letting it go. GO JP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MavBavButav Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 i was saying don't start JP cause i thought he was still injured.....? if he's healthy, start him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuyInMalta Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 i was saying don't start JP cause i thought he was still injured.....? if he's healthy, start him. 88925[/snapback] Exactly. The second he's 100%, I say plug him in...honestly, can we get worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunBillsBacker Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I'm not interested in seeing Bledsoe in a Bills uniform again. Let's get the new era started as soon as JP is healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Everyone wants to see JP play. This year is over... stick a fork in it. DB is over and JP needs to get in some games to prepare for next year. However I don't want to rush him into action until he is 100%. In 2 weeks we'll be at the 1/2 way mark. 8 games with JP should tell us a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 "everyone is saying dont start JP"????? The only ones who are saying don't start JP are the last of the Bledsoe Apologists who are having a hard time letting it go. GO JP!!! 88921[/snapback] I think many Bills fans are saying start him as soon as he is ready. However, when he is ready means: 1. Wait until he heals from his injury. I think some fanatics advocate starting hin right now this weekend, but this view runs counter to MM saying publicly he is 2-3 weeks away. Further, the game 3 weeks away will be on the road against NE which seems like one of the worst places against BB preparations to begin his learning process. Even for those who say the only thing to take into account is his physical injury 4 weeks from now against an offesive minded St. Louis squad seems more reasonable. 2. Ready for others means mentally ready as well and see it as being bad for his development to start him until the Bills braintrust feels that he has done some absorption of the Bills offense and shows understanding of NFL offensive and defensive patterns and reactions. This is very much a classroom, tape, and booklearning activity and eithery you trust the judgment of MM, Clements and Wyche or you don't. Few if any rookies (Peyton Manning and Dan Marino being among the few exceptions) have been ready to apply this skill consistently in their first year (RoboQB looks good so far for Pittsburgh). Playoff qualifying QBs like Pennington and Vick sat out most or all of the years before the demonstrated they had this skill down. Given that JP comes out of a great college career where he did well running for his life behind an underpowered college line, I'm pretty willing to accept that his time to start may not be here yet from the standpoint of him developing into the QB of the future the Bills want. Given the success MM and Clements has in reviving the careers of Maddox and Kordell and given Wyche\s resume and skills I'm willingto trust their judgment on wether the best thing for JP's development is a full bore start in 04, spot and mop-up duty in 04 or his first start start in 05. 3. In addition to these two concerns, there is a lot of reasonable it seems to me concern about JPs mechanics. As he ran for his life making great plays in college he did make a bunch of throws in college (and maybe developed some bad habits, but just maybe) that simply will not make it in the pros. Pro offenses are so oversystematized in my view that it has become essential that a QB throw it virtually the same way everytime so as to develop proper positioning and chemistry with his receivers. In addition, while making a throw which is not as powerful as it could be because the QB threw it off the wrong foot or with poor balance may fly in college, the bigger faster NFL players will likely eat these passes for lunch. JP needs to demonstrate to the Bills braintrust that he has the ablity to apply good consistent mechanics. To the extent he needs work on this, it is something which is probably best done in practice with the JUGS machine or a ball boy to catch passes rather than throwing off some receiver and developing bad habits with them. I dunno we will see. So I am one who does not consider himself a Bledsoe apologist because I certainly advocated cutting him and going in another direction as soon as last seasion ended. However, I am one of those who says certainly DO NOT start JP now because he does not appear to be physically ready. Further, I'd love to see him judged ready to go by the St. Louis game, but I can easily see the braintrust making a rational judgment that is best for the Bills that JP needs to demonstrate more in terms of the mental and/or mechanical part of the game that they judge him not ready to start at all until the 2005 season. I doubt this will be the case, and I figure that at the very least JP will see some signficant mop-up time this season. Actually, I think his injury may end uo being the best thing that could have happened to him in terms of his development as the Bills QB of the future IF he spent his 5 weeks off up in the booth watching NFL offenses and defenses and learning from Sam Wyche without having the distraction of leading his teammates if as disaster QB he had been callled uoon to play. Still, because I'm a Bills fan I pretty firmly advocate that the Bills start him when he is ready physically, mentally and in terms of his mechanics. One cannot replace learning the NFL QB position on the field. However, the essential things which I think starting or playing will give to JP such as learning to play at NFL speeds against real opponents and learnng how to be a leader which can only really be done on the field are the least of my worries about this strong athlete and near-cocky giy. The books, the tape, the booth and practicing mechanics are the keys to JP developing into the great QB we all want. I'm far more interested in him devoting his time during this losing season to these facets than I am seeing him spend his time and effort (no human can do it all at the drop of a hat) on the field and losing games and running for his life behind our OL on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I think many Bills fans are saying start him as soon as he is ready. However, when he is ready means: 1. Wait until he heals from his injury. I think some fanatics advocate starting hin right now this weekend, but this view runs counter to MM saying publicly he is 2-3 weeks away. Further, the game 3 weeks away will be on the road against NE which seems like one of the worst places against BB preparations to begin his learning process. Even for those who say the only thing to take into account is his physical injury 4 weeks from now against an offesive minded St. Louis squad seems more reasonable. 2. Ready for others means mentally ready as well and see it as being bad for his development to start him until the Bills braintrust feels that he has done some absorption of the Bills offense and shows understanding of NFL offensive and defensive patterns and reactions. This is very much a classroom, tape, and booklearning activity and eithery you trust the judgment of MM, Clements and Wyche or you don't. Few if any rookies (Peyton Manning and Dan Marino being among the few exceptions) have been ready to apply this skill consistently in their first year (RoboQB looks good so far for Pittsburgh). Playoff qualifying QBs like Pennington and Vick sat out most or all of the years before the demonstrated they had this skill down. Given that JP comes out of a great college career where he did well running for his life behind an underpowered college line, I'm pretty willing to accept that his time to start may not be here yet from the standpoint of him developing into the QB of the future the Bills want. Given the success MM and Clements has in reviving the careers of Maddox and Kordell and given Wyche\s resume and skills I'm willingto trust their judgment on wether the best thing for JP's development is a full bore start in 04, spot and mop-up duty in 04 or his first start start in 05. 3. In addition to these two concerns, there is a lot of reasonable it seems to me concern about JPs mechanics. As he ran for his life making great plays in college he did make a bunch of throws in college (and maybe developed some bad habits, but just maybe) that simply will not make it in the pros. Pro offenses are so oversystematized in my view that it has become essential that a QB throw it virtually the same way everytime so as to develop proper positioning and chemistry with his receivers. In addition, while making a throw which is not as powerful as it could be because the QB threw it off the wrong foot or with poor balance may fly in college, the bigger faster NFL players will likely eat these passes for lunch. JP needs to demonstrate to the Bills braintrust that he has the ablity to apply good consistent mechanics. To the extent he needs work on this, it is something which is probably best done in practice with the JUGS machine or a ball boy to catch passes rather than throwing off some receiver and developing bad habits with them. I dunno we will see. So I am one who does not consider himself a Bledsoe apologist because I certainly advocated cutting him and going in another direction as soon as last seasion ended. However, I am one of those who says certainly DO NOT start JP now because he does not appear to be physically ready. Further, I'd love to see him judged ready to go by the St. Louis game, but I can easily see the braintrust making a rational judgment that is best for the Bills that JP needs to demonstrate more in terms of the mental and/or mechanical part of the game that they judge him not ready to start at all until the 2005 season. I doubt this will be the case, and I figure that at the very least JP will see some signficant mop-up time this season. Actually, I think his injury may end uo being the best thing that could have happened to him in terms of his development as the Bills QB of the future IF he spent his 5 weeks off up in the booth watching NFL offenses and defenses and learning from Sam Wyche without having the distraction of leading his teammates if as disaster QB he had been callled uoon to play. Still, because I'm a Bills fan I pretty firmly advocate that the Bills start him when he is ready physically, mentally and in terms of his mechanics. One cannot replace learning the NFL QB position on the field. However, the essential things which I think starting or playing will give to JP such as learning to play at NFL speeds against real opponents and learnng how to be a leader which can only really be done on the field are the least of my worries about this strong athlete and near-cocky giy. The books, the tape, the booth and practicing mechanics are the keys to JP developing into the great QB we all want. I'm far more interested in him devoting his time during this losing season to these facets than I am seeing him spend his time and effort (no human can do it all at the drop of a hat) on the field and losing games and running for his life behind our OL on the field. 89005[/snapback] You can only learn 20% of what you need from the side line and in practice. The real learning starts from playing for real. If his leg is healed, then he should start. Hopefully that is in one or two weeks. 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Pete Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Not me. Everyone is not saying "dont start JP". Start JP Pronto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 The only ones who are saying don't start JP are the last of the Bledsoe Apologists who are having a hard time letting it go. I for one am letting go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Exactly. The second he's 100%, I say plug him in...honestly, can we get worse? 88949[/snapback] What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 lets just rename the team, the buffalo rebuilders 88918[/snapback] I think TD is now saying that they are in a 5 year rebuilding plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 2. Ready for others means mentally ready as well and see it as being bad for his development to start him until the Bills braintrust feels that he has done some absorption of the Bills offense and shows understanding of NFL offensive and defensive patterns and reactions. 89005[/snapback] From what I've seen of it, the less he absorbs of this offense, the better! Just use your head, JP, and it'll be a big improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 You can only learn 20% of what you need from the side line and in practice. The real learning starts from playing for real. If his leg is healed, then he should start. Hopefully that is in one or two weeks. 89035[/snapback] Where do you get this number of only 20% of what you need (I assume as a pro QB) can come on the sideline and practice. First, I think what a player needs to learn and the players ability to learn it varies a lot depending upon the player. Some rare folks are Peyton Manning and between him having a great football brain and growing up with the schooling of his Daddy Archie, what he needed was to play at NFL speed against pro opponents and see opposing Ds from over the centers back. With his football mind and a rapier release this was a player who probably fits your description of only 20% of the learning he needed coming to him in practice or the sideline. In fact, I think there is a good argument that 10% or less of what Manning needed was to be found elsewhere than playing the game as his quick release and diagnostic mind made him an immediate starter for Indy and the only player in all of football to start all 16 games at QB for his team that year. On the other hand, you had a player like Michael Vick is one of the most exciting players to watch playing any position in the NFL. He immediately brought to AT an ability to run which was a flat-out weapon and nullified opposing blitzes immediately for fear of defenders overcommitting and Vick exploiting them. In addition, Vick brought a powerful arm to the game which was not taught but simply a god-given gift, Yet, despite these extraordinary tools, Vick sat virtually all of his first season. Why? Because two of his greatest needs to become a productive NFL QB was first to learn NFL offenses and defenses because to win in the pros he would need to coordinate and could not simply depend upon him being by far better than every other player on the field like he was in college. This learning came from watching tape and watching games on the sideline until he learned his craft. The second issue was that though he could freelance all over the place and win in college, he needed to restrain his game and learn to throw passes the same way everytime to suceed in the oversystematized NFL and to develop chemistry with his receivers and blockers. I think practicing throwing the same passes over and over the same way with the ballboys and practicing with the receivers to build chemistry on the practice field. I'm sure that Vick could have started and provide a few highlight film runs and even throws right away, but I'd estimate that 80% of the learning he needed was from off the field stuff. Chad Pennington who was taken at roughly the same spot as JP also sat his entire first year and like Vick took his team to the playoffs his second year after sitting all or at least virtually all of his first year. In terms of JP, I think he is not a runner like Vick (who is) but he has shown a degree of athleticism that makes me less concerned about his need to play folks at NFL speeds (he also used to running for his life behind lousy blocking which unfortunately is good experience to bring to leading this Bills team). I also think the leadership ability and pluckiness he has shown will be akin to the control Pennington immediately brought to the Jets. I'm less worried about him getting the finishing shool aspects which playing the game brings to all young players than I am worried about him doing the tape and book learning that I hope will bring him to Jim Kelly like levels of being a coach on the field and about him redeveloping his mechanics under Wyche/Clements/Mularkey which will come with repetitive practice. I have not seen or heard enough about JP's play (another reason for him to spend a few weeks practicing) to really judge where he is. However, my guess is that at least 50% of what he needs to become a contributing NFL QB is going to be found off the field and perhaps as much as 75%, Starting him this season will certainly provide good entertainment for me and good grins for those motivated by their hatred of Bledsoe, but in terms of his development as the Bills QB of the future if our braintrust (which has shown good QB chops with Maddx and Kordell despite missing the boat with Bledsoe) judges him not to be ready to start until 2005 I will not consider this a complete failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Who is saying "dont start JP"? START JP NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Let him play when he's healthy and not a minute later. I'd MUCH rather lose with JP than with Drew, at least you know it will be getting us somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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