The Big Cat Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 3-4 yards minimum. The D had been stacked against the run for several plays. If you NEED to rollout, run a sweep with Lynch or Jackson, but that still works against the weakness of the D, at the time. A pass is simply stupid, and your RBs are better at running than the QB. NO EXCUSE for that call, IMO. Wrong on every level. Honestly, just by the very fact that people here besides me have ways of defending the play call tells me it wasn't "wrong." There are playcalls which simply can't be defended. I honestly don't believe those to be one of those instances. Was it the "right" call? Well, may be may be not. But if "not", it CERTAINLY wasn't sack, fumble, return for a TD bad play call. I think we can agree on that, and I think we can agree that the ultimate result of the play is contributing greatly to the emotional aspects of this discussion.
DE Bills Fan Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 JP doing what he does. Execution outweighs coaching in this circumstance. This isn't settling for a 47 yard fg to try to win a game. This is trying to get a 1st down to ice the game. Yes they should've just ran it, we all know that. As a 5th year qb you should have enough common sense to protect the ball and eat the sack or throw it the hell away Totally disagree. Coaching outweighs execution in this case. If the ball was being given to Lynch, that play would never have happened and we would be talking about how gutsy the Bills were for coming back from a 14-3 hole to win the game by dominating the Jets in the 4th Quarter. Sorry, but while Losman deserves some of the blame, I give the lions share to jauron. This is as bad as the Miracle in the Meadowlands when the G-Men lost to the Eagles by bothibg a handoff to runn out the clock. pathetic!!!
The Big Cat Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Huh? A coach can't think "my QB is terrible but the other guys can't stop my rushing attack"? And by the time we got to the 4Q today, was there anyone left who thought that JP still belonged on this team, or in the NFL? If this was anyone but you, I'd presume this was a goof. Again you're conveniently ignoring Losman's four straight completions which set up the rushing TD earlier in the fourth.
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 On the CBS half-time show, they called the decision to pass "inexplicable".
DE Bills Fan Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 So what,and on third down they run again...even if they get no gain they can still punt the ball away with less then a minute to go the Jets get the ball on their 45 and would need A FG to tie and a TD to win. Throwing the ball when you need to run out the clock is simply moronic. Totally agree. Any counter-arguement is moronic
TheChimp Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 I would probably have called a run in that situation. But I don't think the call was as boneheaded as the result would have us feel. Such a pass play is almost equivalent to a run, if the QB has any brains. Ah--I get it now! You win.
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Nope. A rollout should take more than 6 seconds off the clock and take you under the 2... I agree with Big Cat... I knew the Bills were done when THEY had to take a timeout before the 2... We just agree to disagree I guess. Please give me some of what you're smoking. You're posts throughout this thread are scaring me. No f'n way that: 1) the play call itself 2) JP's actual execution of the play 3) the coaches believing JP could effectively execute the play should be defended. An absolute horse s*it call in the context of what was happeneng in the game at that moment (down and distance, score, Jets timeouts remaining, momentum of running game, turnover potential of JP, etc.)
jad1 Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Honestly, just by the very fact that people here besides me have ways of defending the play call tells me it wasn't "wrong." There are playcalls which simply can't be defended. I honestly don't believe those to be one of those instances. Was it the "right" call? Well, may be may be not. But if "not", it CERTAINLY wasn't sack, fumble, return for a TD bad play call. I think we can agree on that, and I think we can agree that the ultimate result of the play is contributing greatly to the emotional aspects of this discussion. The people who agree with you are wrong. If the Bills couldn't average 2.5 yards on 2nd and 3rd down to get the first, with the way that Lynch and Jackson were running the ball, then they eat clock, force the Jets to waste timeouts and kick the ball away. By the way, the Jets didn't get a first down the entire 4th quarter. A good coach would have placed the game in the hands of Lynch/Jackson, and the defense. A bad coach puts the ball in the hands of their lame-duck, mistake-prone, washout of a qb (who hasn't won a game in over a year), hoping that he plays against type. There's no defending that call.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 This is one reason I did not think the call was idiotic, though neither would a run call have been. One concrete advantage of the rollout call is that, if you get the first down here, you have that many more plays in which to run out the clock, giving the Jets no time to score even if they get the ball back. Ding! We have a winner... Repeat: RollOut is the operative word here. They didn't drop JPL in the pocket and have him toss it... That would have been moronic.
Dan Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Honestly, just by the very fact that people here besides me have ways of defending the play call tells me it wasn't "wrong." There are playcalls which simply can't be defended. I honestly don't believe those to be one of those instances. Was it the "right" call? Well, may be may be not. But if "not", it CERTAINLY wasn't sack, fumble, return for a TD bad play call. I think we can agree on that, and I think we can agree that the ultimate result of the play is contributing greatly to the emotional aspects of this discussion. Not entirely. Sure if JP completes the pass it's a mute point. But, what if he's simply sacked. Now it's 3 and 10ish and you have to almost certainly throw. Bottom line: that call in that situation has more potential bad than good that can happen. A run up the middle has more potential good than bad that can happen. It's kinda like last year's 3rd and 5 play late in the game that JP launches to Evans. Why? You just don't need that play in that situation of the game. In the middle of the 3rd quarter, maybe its not so bad. But, with 2 minutes left in the game protecting a lead, you play it safe and dive into the line with your beast of a RB.
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Ding! We have a winner... Repeat: RollOut is the operative word here. They didn't drop JPL in the pocket and have him toss it... That would have been moronic. No F'ing way that was a designed run that JP "decided" to throw the ball on insead of follow the script.
Kelso Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Give it a rest. You guys are all over the Bills for conservative play-calling, they make a gutsy call when the clock is going to stop for the 2:00 warning and you're all over them? JP should have a BRAIN and realize what his responsibility is on that play, THROW IT AWAY if anyone is near you, he's the IDIOT and if he starts next week the Bills should fire Jauron immediately. I hate to say it, but the call was terrible! 2:06 in the game with a short gain to go is not the time to call play action. Especially when your RB is hammering the ball! Not to mention they were in the shadows of the end zone! Big Dick is supposedly Ivy league educated, I knew that education was over rated! Would anyone else in the league other than the stumbling Bills trust JP Losman in that scenario? Unequivocally NO! Trade Lynch, he deserves better, he is a man amongst boys! This season could have been a nightmare instead he has grown personally and professionally. More than I can say for that loser Losman! One other complaint! Jason Peters is not worth the money!
The Big Cat Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 The people who agree with you are wrong. If the Bills couldn't average 2.5 yards on 2nd and 3rd down to get the first, with the way that Lynch and Jackson were running the ball, then they eat clock, force the Jets to waste timeouts and kick the ball away. By the way, the Jets didn't get a first down the entire 4th quarter. A good coach would have placed the game in the hands of Lynch/Jackson, and the defense. A bad coach puts the ball in the hands of their lame-duck, mistake-prone, washout of a qb (who hasn't won a game in over a year), hoping that he plays against type. There's no defending that call. Well, yes there is, in fact. There was no clock to eat. The two minute warning was coming in 6 seconds. The play was going to end in a stoppage of time, regardless. To say we needed to run there to eat up the clock is, fundamentally, wrong.
thewildrabbit Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Honestly, just by the very fact that people here besides me have ways of defending the play call tells me it wasn't "wrong." There are playcalls which simply can't be defended. I honestly don't believe those to be one of those instances. Was it the "right" call? Well, may be may be not. But if "not", it CERTAINLY wasn't sack, fumble, return for a TD bad play call. I think we can agree on that, and I think we can agree that the ultimate result of the play is contributing greatly to the emotional aspects of this discussion. Simply because you read someone else agreeing it wasn't a bad call doesn't change the fact that most of the world KNOWS it was one of the worst calls in Bills history,perhaps in NFL history. Coaches will be showing that call to assistant coaches on what not to call in that situation! Go read the Two Bills Dive writers columns, people that say it was not a bad call are in the minority,and frankly I have to doubt their football intelligence for doing so.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 In that particular situation the primary objective is holding on to the ball!!! The secondary objective is to run the clock!!! The third objective is to make a first down. It was SECOND DOWN and FIVE. you never throw the ball when you have 2 downs to make a first down and want to run out the clock, even if both fail you can still punt it away.. Exactly! A RollOut covers all of that, chews up more time. If the coverage was there... Why didn't he protect the ball there? Everybody is screaming pass... He didn't even pass the damn ball. The one time we need his "Tulane instincts" and he blows it. He is a "broken horse."
KD in CA Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Again you're conveniently ignoring Losman's four straight completions which set up the rushing TD earlier in the fourth. I'm conveniently forgotting that he managed to not to f*&k up four straight dump offs? Ohhhhh.....I hope it's not too late to get him in the Pro Bowl! Is that like you conveniently forgetting the first 3 and a half quarters? And last week? And 2005-2007? The guy did not complete a SINGLE PASS longer than nine yards downfield. Including RAC, his longest play was TWELVE YARDS! Outside of the two INTs he threw at the end, I don't recall even an attempt longer than ten yards. That means he was basically 60% at throwing dump offs all game. And if you watched the game, you saw how many of them were simply terrible throws. To risk the game put putting him in that situation is not even close to defensible.
Gordio Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 I agree...mostly. While I don't think JP is "one of the mentally slowest QBs to ever play the game", the guy hasn't shown a high degree of mental acuity, and seems to fumble whenever he is hit, recently. IMO, ou don't make that call with ANY QB, and certainly not with JP...not when your running game is controlling the game, and you are simply trying to run out the clock, and hold on to the win. Someone needs to be fired, IMO, for simply being that mother fuc#ing stupid. This is not true dean. You do make this call with alot of qbs. But shame on the coaches for not knowing their personal. JP Losman is the dumbest mother f*cking qb in this whole league. This guy is borderline retarded. U truly believe this. Shame on the coaches for not knowing this & putting the game in his hands when Lynch could of just as easily chewed up the remainder of this clock. One thing good might have come out of this. This may have been the straw that broke wilson's back in regards to Jauron. Noway he could bring him back after this debacle. As for JP the retard, he is going to have a tough time hooking onto a team next year. I do not see him on an NFL roster come next fall. This guy is just to stupid to be a qb.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Huh? A coach can't think "my QB is terrible but the other guys can't stop my rushing attack"? And by the time we got to the 4Q today, was there anyone left who thought that JP still belonged on this team, or in the NFL? If this was anyone but you, I'd presume this was a goof. You still have to give him a chance to lead... He had a game to finish. Of course I don't believe he belongs in the league. What does winning this game do? Anyway... Who would you rather see in the playoffs... I think I will puke if the Fins win the division... The lesser of the three evils is the NY Jets... IMO...
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